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#11
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Brimstone wrote:
Do people in the Dutch town where this has been implemented get mown down? AIUI, they don't. If you've been to the Netherlands you'll know their culture is much more geared towards walkers and cyclists in towns - I'd love it to work here but there are just too many dangerous drivers out there. M. |
#12
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marcb wrote:
Brimstone wrote: Do people in the Dutch town where this has been implemented get mown down? AIUI, they don't. If you've been to the Netherlands you'll know their culture is much more geared towards walkers and cyclists in towns - I'd love it to work here but there are just too many dangerous drivers out there. Seems like this is a good start to reverse the trend. |
#13
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"Brimstone" wrote in news:crug7k$fak$1
@titan.btinternet.com: marcb wrote: Brimstone wrote: Do people in the Dutch town where this has been implemented get mown down? AIUI, they don't. If you've been to the Netherlands you'll know their culture is much more geared towards walkers and cyclists in towns - I'd love it to work here but there are just too many dangerous drivers out there. Seems like this is a good start to reverse the trend. Maybe - but Exhibition Road is not a typical London road environment. Let's try it in Hackney (where I live and where it's usual to see cars topping 50 down the side streets). M. |
#14
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There is an interview available on line from December's 'Wired' about
Hans Monderman, the traffic engineer promoting the concept. However, as said on here, the Dutch have a different way of doing things. Aren't drivers automatically guilty if in an accident with a pedestrian or bicyclist in the Netherlands, or is that urban myth? Link to article: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1...ffic.html?pg=1 -- Martin @ Strawberry Hill |
#15
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![]() ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Arquati" Newsgroups: uk.transport.london Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2005 9:30 PM Subject: Undressing Exhibition Road The BBC's term for this idea is a "naked road". Apparently RB Kensington & Chelsea are considering removing the kerb, traffic lights and signs on Exhibition Road to trial the Dutch scheme where removal of all barriers and signs is meant to encourage drivers to be more aware of pedestrians. This is part of a redevelopment plan for Exhibition Road. It's an interesting idea; Exhibition Road is an interesting road to choose too. It has a high volume of pedestrian traffic; however, it also has a large number of street parking spaces at the southern end. I wonder if these would be removed under this proposal? I wonder if anybody has considered the impact this scheme would have on visually impaired - particularly those who use a long cane - pedestrians. The kerb, like walls, fences and other street furniture are vital guides as to one's position on the pavement, and location of buildings and safe road crossing points - removing the kerb would allow visually impaired pedestrians to wander into the path of vehicles without any knowledge of the impending danger. Robert Any view expressed are my own and may not be representative of those held by others. Remove numbers to reply. |
#16
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"Richard J." wrote in message
k... It's also a major route between the Paddington/Edgware Road area and Kensington/Chelsea. While I quite like the idea of the "naked road", I can't help feeling that this wide, straight through-route is not really suitable to try out the concept in London. There's a section of Caledonian Road (the end nearest the Nags Head junction with Holloway Road) which is, probably unintentionally, devoid of most markings. At most times it flows nicely, but at peak times it's a nightmare as nobody really knows if it's "supposed" to be one or two lanes. In this case there are no pedestrians to worry about (separate pavements on both sides, separated by a line of parked cars), few junctions, and the road is one-way only. IMHO, the "undressed" concept is great - and I'm all for removal of paint from the roads - but I think London drivers have and will have a lot to learn and get used to for it to work safely, smoothly, calmly and efficiently. |
#17
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![]() It's an interesting idea; Exhibition Road is an interesting road to choose too. It has a high volume of pedestrian traffic; however, it also has a large number of street parking spaces at the southern end. I wonder if these would be removed under this proposal? A few points I have noticed 1. At the bottom of the steps going from the Tanaka building (Imperial College) the footpath is about an inch wider than the footpath along the rest of the street. Assuming that this inch of footpath is privately owned by Imperial College, will it still stay? 2. Why remove footpaths when parts of them were freshly laid last summer (and are in much better condition than other footpaths in K&C and Westminster) 3. Is it just the K&C part of Exhibition road which is taking part in the trial or is the Westminster part doing so aswell? 4. If signs and road markings are to be removed does this include the parking restriction signs and the double red lines? Does this mean people can park anywhere? Chris |
#19
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![]() "Mait001" wrote in message ... AIUI the whole point is to force both pedestrians and drivers to switch their brains on. That can only be good can't it? Sadly, increasing numbers of both appear to have no brains to switch on, and the 2 forms of traffic (foot and wheeled) need to be kept apart by as sensible means as possible. This has been, for about a Century (or longer in some places) by means of kerb and bollards. Why reinvent the wheel now? Pedestrians and drivers need to know their demarcation: pedestrians on the pavement, vehicles on the road. Simple. Straightforward. Each knows where he can and can't (or shouldn't) go. Why make life impossibly difficult for all those that are too stupid to make these decisions for themselves? In an age of dumbing-down, this invention of "choice" seems a retrograde step, and will inevitably lead to those incapable of making the right choice to make the wrong one. What is the point in arguing against a scheme that is working perfectly well elsewhere? Are you suggesting that the people of the UK are in some way less intelligent or able to to adapt than the people of Holland? Or are you in favour of further dumbing down? Look upon this as a first step in despatching Nanny back to the Nursery. |
#20
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![]() What is the point in arguing against a scheme that is working perfectly well elsewhere? Are you suggesting that the people of the UK are in some way less intelligent or able to to adapt than the people of Holland? Or are you in favour of further dumbing down? Look upon this as a first step in despatching Nanny back to the Nursery. This works fine in rural parts of Britan where the councils have neither the need nor the money to put extra signs and footpaths in. The differennce between rural Britain and London is that in London there is a lot more traffic, drivers are often stressed and the driving style is completely different. As someone with experience of living in both London and a small rural village I beleive I can make this comment. Also, there are some very old trees growing out of the footpaths on Exhibition Road - are they going to be left there when the footpath becomes the road? |
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