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I'd advocate six, but I think 8 is unrealistic - major stations aside
(East Croydon, Wimbledon etc) how many routes have 8tph? Jonn |
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Dan Gravell wrote:
wrote: I'd advocate six, but I think 8 is unrealistic - major stations aside (East Croydon, Wimbledon etc) how many routes have 8tph? Put simply - build them. You're right that few have 8tph, but the setting of the waterline at four seems more a decision based on marketing than it does the semantics of the word "frequent". I think a 15 minute interval is just enough to qualify - after all, given that the average wait should be 7.5mins, that's just enough time at the big terminals to buy a ticket and find the platform if you're unfamilar with the place. 4tph is also the off-peak frequency to London at Richmond, Ealing Broadway (District) and Rickmansworth outwards. I accept that that's a small proportion of stations. It is interesting that 6tph is "standard" offpeak Tube frequency on outer London Tube services like the Central line's West Ruislip branch or the Piccadilly's Rayners Lane branch, whereas 4tph is deemed sufficient on National Rail, even at inner London stations like Loughborough Junction, Streatham Hill, Deptford and St Johns. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:
Dan Gravell wrote: wrote: I'd advocate six, but I think 8 is unrealistic - major stations aside (East Croydon, Wimbledon etc) how many routes have 8tph? Put simply - build them. You're right that few have 8tph, but the setting of the waterline at four seems more a decision based on marketing than it does the semantics of the word "frequent". I think a 15 minute interval is just enough to qualify - after all, given that the average wait should be 7.5mins, that's just enough time at the big terminals to buy a ticket and find the platform if you're unfamilar with the place. I think worst-case time is more important than average - i want to know i'm not going to have to wait longer than a given time. 4tph is also the off-peak frequency to London at Richmond, Ealing Broadway (District) and Rickmansworth outwards. I accept that that's a small proportion of stations. Basically, where NR and LU share (how about the Bakerloo?) - it should be banned! And no, Ealing Broadway isn't shared, but that's not important right now. It is interesting that 6tph is "standard" offpeak Tube frequency on outer London Tube services like the Central line's West Ruislip branch or the Piccadilly's Rayners Lane branch, whereas 4tph is deemed sufficient on National Rail, even at inner London stations like Loughborough Junction, Streatham Hill, Deptford and St Johns. This must be some new meaning of the word 'interesting' of which i was not previously aware - a synonym for 'criminal', i take it :). Add most of the West Anglia line that list (not Hackney Downs or Tottenham Hale, though) - in fact, i think it's even less above Hackney (Cambridge Heath etc). 6 tph should be the benchmark for 'frequent' service. 8 tph should be an aspiration. 4 tph is absurd. Also, those six trains should be evenly spaced. Perhaps the rule should actaually be no more than 10 min between departures; 6 evenly-spaced tph would satisfy this, but 8 tph would be needed if they weren't even. Oh, and the map should deal with the multiple-destinations problem by treating services to different destinations as separate lines; i don't think a station on two infrequent lines should be count as frequently served, but i don't think it's entirely clear. tom -- Socialism - straight in the mainline! |
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"Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... Dan Gravell wrote: wrote: I'd advocate six, but I think 8 is unrealistic - major stations aside (East Croydon, Wimbledon etc) how many routes have 8tph? Put simply - build them. You're right that few have 8tph, but the setting of the waterline at four seems more a decision based on marketing than it does the semantics of the word "frequent". I think a 15 minute interval is just enough to qualify - after all, given that the average wait should be 7.5mins, that's just enough time at the big terminals to buy a ticket and find the platform if you're unfamilar with the place. 4tph is also the off-peak frequency to London at Richmond, Ealing Broadway (District) and Rickmansworth outwards. I accept that that's a small proportion of stations. Richmond and Ealing Broadway both have 6tph off-peak. Rickmansworth - Amersham has 6tph if you include the Chilterns. The only stations of LU with less than 6tph are Chesham (2tph), Woodford-Hainault (3tph), Kensington Olympia and Mill Hill East (4tph), New Cross and New Cross Gate (5tph each). Peter Smyth |
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Peter Smyth wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... Dan Gravell wrote: wrote: I'd advocate six, but I think 8 is unrealistic - major stations aside (East Croydon, Wimbledon etc) how many routes have 8tph? Put simply - build them. You're right that few have 8tph, but the setting of the waterline at four seems more a decision based on marketing than it does the semantics of the word "frequent". I think a 15 minute interval is just enough to qualify - after all, given that the average wait should be 7.5mins, that's just enough time at the big terminals to buy a ticket and find the platform if you're unfamilar with the place. 4tph is also the off-peak frequency to London at Richmond, Ealing Broadway (District) and Rickmansworth outwards. I accept that that's a small proportion of stations. Richmond and Ealing Broadway both have 6tph off-peak. Rickmansworth - Amersham has 6tph if you include the Chilterns. The only stations of LU with less than 6tph are Chesham (2tph), Woodford-Hainault (3tph), Kensington Olympia and Mill Hill East (4tph), New Cross and New Cross Gate (5tph each). My apologies about Richmond and Ealing - I didn't check beforehand. But Rickmansworth only has 4tph direct to central London between 10am and 3pm weekdays, including the Chilterns - Met departures are at xx00 and xx30, Chilterns at xx10 and xx40. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
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"Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... 4tph is also the off-peak frequency to London at Richmond, Ealing Broadway (District) and Rickmansworth outwards. I accept that that's a small proportion of stations. Richmond and Ealing Broadway both have 6tph off-peak. Rickmansworth - Amersham has 6tph if you include the Chilterns. The only stations of LU with less than 6tph are Chesham (2tph), Woodford-Hainault (3tph), Kensington Olympia and Mill Hill East (4tph), New Cross and New Cross Gate (5tph each). My apologies about Richmond and Ealing - I didn't check beforehand. But Rickmansworth only has 4tph direct to central London between 10am and 3pm weekdays, including the Chilterns - Met departures are at xx00 and xx30, Chilterns at xx10 and xx40. You must be looking at an out of date timetable. It has been 4+2tph for at least a year - see http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/first...oundWTT318.pdf Looking further I see that the TfL Interactive Map http://map.tfl.gov.uk gives the times you quote from a timetable poster dated 29/09/02. In fact none of the timetables on the map seem to have been updated for some time. Peter Smyth |
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"Paul Cummins" wrote in message .. . In article . com, () wrote: I'd advocate six, but I think 8 is unrealistic - major stations aside (East Croydon, Wimbledon etc) how many routes have 8tph? London Bridge to Forest Hill and return - 12TPH. How do you work that out? Seems to be 6 to me, 2 to Victoria via Crystal Palace, 2 to Caterham and 2 to Sutton. Peter Smyth |
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Paul Cummins wrote:
In article , (Peter Smyth) wrote: How do you work that out? Seems to be 6 to me, 2 to Victoria via Crystal Palace, 2 to Caterham and 2 to Sutton. Then 6 to London Brodge as well... It's a bit silly to count both directions... not many people turn up at a station and get on the first train that's going anywhere. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
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Peter Smyth wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message ... 4tph is also the off-peak frequency to London at Richmond, Ealing Broadway (District) and Rickmansworth outwards. I accept that that's a small proportion of stations. Richmond and Ealing Broadway both have 6tph off-peak. Rickmansworth - Amersham has 6tph if you include the Chilterns. The only stations of LU with less than 6tph are Chesham (2tph), Woodford-Hainault (3tph), Kensington Olympia and Mill Hill East (4tph), New Cross and New Cross Gate (5tph each). My apologies about Richmond and Ealing - I didn't check beforehand. But Rickmansworth only has 4tph direct to central London between 10am and 3pm weekdays, including the Chilterns - Met departures are at xx00 and xx30, Chilterns at xx10 and xx40. You must be looking at an out of date timetable. It has been 4+2tph for at least a year - see http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/first...oundWTT318.pdf Looking further I see that the TfL Interactive Map http://map.tfl.gov.uk gives the times you quote from a timetable poster dated 29/09/02. In fact none of the timetables on the map seem to have been updated for some time. That's where I was. The newer frequency is a pretty good boost. It's quite impressive that at only 8 stations out of 275 do you have to wait more than 10 minutes for a train. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:
Paul Cummins wrote: In article , (Peter Smyth) wrote: How do you work that out? Seems to be 6 to me, 2 to Victoria via Crystal Palace, 2 to Caterham and 2 to Sutton. Then 6 to London Brodge as well... It's a bit silly to count both directions... not many people turn up at a station and get on the first train that's going anywhere. Except at termini. And Penge. tom -- Michael Jackson had that idea back in the 80s. There was even a ride at Disneyland. |
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Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote: Paul Cummins wrote: In article , (Peter Smyth) wrote: How do you work that out? Seems to be 6 to me, 2 to Victoria via Crystal Palace, 2 to Caterham and 2 to Sutton. Then 6 to London Brodge as well... It's a bit silly to count both directions... not many people turn up at a station and get on the first train that's going anywhere. Except at termini. And Penge. I'm not going to turn up at Victoria and get on the first train that's going anywhere. I might be innocently trying to get to Wandsworth Road, and end up in Brighton instead. Why do you get on the first train at Penge? Is Penge really so bad you want to escape as soon as possible? :-) -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: On Thu, 20 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote: Paul Cummins wrote: In article , (Peter Smyth) wrote: How do you work that out? Seems to be 6 to me, 2 to Victoria via Crystal Palace, 2 to Caterham and 2 to Sutton. Then 6 to London Brodge as well... It's a bit silly to count both directions... not many people turn up at a station and get on the first train that's going anywhere. Except at termini. And Penge. I'm not going to turn up at Victoria and get on the first train that's going anywhere. I was thinking of tube termini (Walthamstow, Cockfosters, etc), where there's only one direction - i did express it rather badly, though. And places like Morden and Uxbridge don't work anyway. Why do you get on the first train at Penge? Is Penge really so bad you want to escape as soon as possible? :-) Yes. tom -- In Milan, [traffic lights] are instructions, in Rome suggestions, and in Naples Christmas decorations. -- James Dowden |
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I think a 15 minute interval is just enough to qualify - after all, given that the average wait should be 7.5mins, that's just enough time at the big terminals to buy a ticket and find the platform if you're unfamilar with the place. I think worst-case time is more important than average - i want to know i'm not going to have to wait longer than a given time. In Putney theres a sign advertising up to 6 trains per hour (off peak) to Waterloo. Thats fine except on a Sunday when all 6 trains leave between ten to and twenty past |
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In message , Paul Terry
writes hats fine except on a Sunday when all 6 trains leave between ten to and twenty past Our rush hour merits a train every two hours, that being a single carriage, I wish I had your problems, I could save myself a bomb taking my car off of the road. -- Clive. |
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In message , Clive Coleman
writes In message , Paul Terry writes hats fine except on a Sunday when all 6 trains leave between ten to and twenty past Our rush hour merits a train every two hours, that being a single carriage, I wish I had your problems, Nope, you have misquoted ... someone else wrote that. I have no rush-hour problems - mainly because I work from home, but even if I didn't the rush-hour service interval of more than one bus a minute in these parts (and ample trains) would ensure that I have no real complaint about public transport. -- Paul Terry |
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