Frequent service maps...
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

...have begun appearing in certain tube stations
in place of the London Connections map.

Thanks for drawing all of our attention to this. I've now finally seen it.

I appluad the sentiment (and was pleasantly surprised
by how much of the south London network qualifies),

The definition of frequent looks deliberately specced down to make most of
south London qualify. Turn Up And Go should be 10 minute maximum headway
IMO.

but isn't there anyway they could be made both clearer
and less ugly? Perhaps by using a different colour
for each London terminal (and Thameslink), and use
broken lines instead of less bold ones for infrequent services.

I think the biggest problem with the map is that it is too hard to tell the
difference between frequent stations and infrequent stations on frequent
lines, such as Hackbridge. I am not convinced that the station names should
be coloured at all, especially when you consider that some interchanges have
a multiple blob which is coloured half frequent and half infrequent
(incidentally the difference between the frequent and infrequent blobs at an
interchange is not clear enough IMO). I can not think of a perfect solution
right now.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Frequent service maps...
 

John Rowland
I am not convinced that the station names should
be coloured at all, especially when you consider that some
interchanges have
a multiple blob which is coloured half frequent and half infrequent
(incidentally the difference between the frequent and infrequent blobs
at an
interchange is not clear enough IMO). I can not think of a perfect
solution
right now.

Sorry, I wasn't clear there. I didn't intend that station names should
be coloured, merely the lines they serve - so you could see at a glance
that Bexleyheath was served from Victoria and Charing Cross, for
example.

I think the best model I've seen for a suburban rail map - although it
does rather abandon the Beck model - is the map of rail services in the
Ile de France. Helpfully, I can't find it online; but it uses a
different colour for each RER line, and then a hollow line of the same
colour for the suburban services which feed it. I'd propose a slightly
different model, in which each London terminal was given a colour, and
the frequent and in-frequent routes serving it differentiated in some
way - either by filled/hollow lines (with perhaps a different thickness
used to differentiate NR from LUL lines); or hollow/broken lines. You'd
probably need a slight rethink to involve the light rail lines though.

You know, it's five years since I made that map on your site, and I
find I'm still obsessing over this stuff. I wonder if I have a syndrome
of some sort.

Jonn

Frequent service maps...
 

On 24 Jan 2005 wrote:

I'd propose a slightly different model, in which each London terminal
was given a colour, and the frequent and in-frequent routes serving it
differentiated in some way - either by filled/hollow lines (with perhaps
a different thickness used to differentiate NR from LUL lines); or
hollow/broken lines.

That's what we're heading towards - LU are now differentiating
tube/frequent rail/infrequent rail by solid/heavy hollow/light hollow
lines, and the ON map shows lines coloured by terminus (as does the NR
version of London Connections, more or less); it's only a matter of time
before we have a Grand Unified Map for everything.

I'm not sure about the one colour per terminal, though. LU's maps have the
idea of one colour per line, which i think should be maintained, and i'm
not sure that you can consider all routes which go to the same terminal to
be a single line. The Windsor and Guildford lines, for example, both go to
Waterloo, but really aren't one line. Perhaps different lines serving the
same termini could be distinguished by different hues or shades of the
same base colour? If Waterloo was red, Windsor could be burgundy,
Guildford scarlet, etc. I'm not sure what you'd do about Thameslink
services which go via Blackfriars and London Bridge; either have the line
change colour as it crosses the river, or leave it off the map!

You'd probably need a slight rethink to involve the light rail lines
though.

Yet another kind of line - i'd suggest narrow solid.

You know, it's five years since I made that map on your site, and I find
I'm still obsessing over this stuff. I wonder if I have a syndrome of
some sort.

Lucky you've got a support group, then!

tom

PS Does anyone know who invented popup windows? I'd like to know so that
if i ever meet him, i can BRUTALLY KILL HIM.

--
The MAtrix had evarything in it: guns, a juimping off teh walls, flying guns, a bullet tiem, evil computar machenes, numbers that flew, flying gun bullets in slowar motian, juimping into a gun, dead police men, computar hackeing, Kevin Mitnick, oven trailers, a old womans kitchen, stairs, mature women in clotheing, head spark plugs, mechaanical squids, Japaneseses assasins, tiem traval, volcanos, a monstar, slow time at fastar speed, magic, wizzards, some dirty place, Kung Few, fighting, a lot of mess explodsians EVARYWHERE, and just about anything else yuo can names!

Frequent service maps...
 

Tom Anderson:
I'm not sure about the one colour per terminal, though. LU's maps have
the
idea of one colour per line, which i think should be maintained, and
i'm
not sure that you can consider all routes which go to the same
terminal to
be a single line. The Windsor and Guildford lines, for example, both
go to
Waterloo, but really aren't one line. Perhaps different lines serving
the
same termini could be distinguished by different hues or shades of the
same base colour? If Waterloo was red, Windsor could be burgundy,
Guildford scarlet, etc. I'm not sure what you'd do about Thameslink
services which go via Blackfriars and London Bridge; either have the
line
change colour as it crosses the river, or leave it off the map!

I don't think every different route needs different colours (and there
are limits on the number of them you can have, particularly given the
tube will be included as well). But I think there are arguments for
splitting the Waterloo, Victoria, Charing Cross/Cannon Street (which I
think would have to be considered as one terminal - via London Bridge -
to simplify things), London Bridge and Liverpool Street lines. The
others would work with one colour I think.

Jonn

Help me

Frequent service maps...
 

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:33:22 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

PS Does anyone know who invented popup windows? I'd like to know so that
if i ever meet him, i can BRUTALLY KILL HIM.

Try Firefox. It won't mean you can inflict bodily harm on the
inventor of such things, but it will mean you won't see them any more
unless you want to on a specific site.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Frequent service maps...
 

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Neil Williams wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:33:22 +0000, Tom Anderson
wrote:

PS Does anyone know who invented popup windows? I'd like to know so
that if i ever meet him, i can BRUTALLY KILL HIM.

Try Firefox. It won't mean you can inflict bodily harm on the inventor
of such things, but it will mean you won't see them any more unless you
want to on a specific site.

True. In fact, i use Firefox on my own machine, but Mozilla at work (it's
a shared machine, so i feel slightly uncomfortable installing
just-out-of-beta software; i'm holding on for 1.1).

What was actually winding me up, though, was not on-load popups, which
Firefox suppresses very effectively, but target-new links - where you
click on a link and it gives you the target in a new window. This is
completely and utterly wrong, worthless, irritating, unusable, evil, bad,
selfish and generally not on behaviour. If i wanted the link in a new
window, i'd open it in a new window. Pray tell me, TfL maps page, what
exactly you think i'm going to do with you after opening the map i'm
after? You must think i have more in mind for you, else you'd let yourself
be replaced by the thing i asked for, LIKE WEBPAGES ARE SUPPOSED TO. Gah.
Anyway, Firefox does have single-window mode and tricks to suppress this
sort of thing, through the miracle of extensions, so i think it'll be
arriving on my desktop sooner rather than later.

The crazy thing is that there must be umpteen usability studies out there
showing that target-new links are bad, but people persist in using them. I
don't think they're doing it out of malice or other evil intent, as with
popup ads, i think they're doing it because they want to make my browsing
experience better and they genuinely think it will help. Have they never
*used* the web? Unbelievable!

Or is this just me?

Anyway, /rant.

tom

--
Michael Jackson had that idea back in the 80s. There was even a ride at Disneyland.

Frequent service maps...
 

On 24 Jan 2005 wrote:

Tom Anderson:

I'm not sure about the one colour per terminal, though. LU's maps have
the idea of one colour per line, which i think should be maintained,
and i'm not sure that you can consider all routes which go to the same
terminal to be a single line. The Windsor and Guildford lines, for
example, both go to Waterloo, but really aren't one line. Perhaps
different lines serving the same termini could be distinguished by
different hues or shades of the same base colour? If Waterloo was red,
Windsor could be burgundy, Guildford scarlet, etc. I'm not sure what
you'd do about Thameslink services which go via Blackfriars and London
Bridge; either have the line change colour as it crosses the river, or
leave it off the map!

I don't think every different route needs different colours

Well, it doesn't *need* it, strictly, but i think it'd be more useful. I'm
not saying every combination of source and destination should have a
unique colour, just that colours should be used to break the routes up
into more than the three or four groups colouring by terminal would give.
Would you really colour the West Anglia and Great Eastern lines the same,
just because they both run into Liverpool Street? Does that mean we should
also colour the Central and Hammersmith & City lines the same?

(and there are limits on the number of them you can have, particularly
given the tube will be included as well).

Hmm. I think there are few enough colours left after the tube lines that
we're going to have duplication anyway.

But I think there are arguments for splitting the Waterloo, Victoria,
Charing Cross/Cannon Street (which I think would have to be considered
as one terminal - via London Bridge - to simplify things), London Bridge
and Liverpool Street lines. The others would work with one colour I
think.

That is, one colour per terminal, counting some groups of terminals as a
single terminal (we'd probably treat King's Cross and Moorgate as one as
well).

Would you really count Charing Cross/Cannon Street services as distinct
from London Bridge? I'd throw them all in together, myself.

tom

--
Michael Jackson had that idea back in the 80s. There was even a ride at Disneyland.

Frequent service maps...
 

Tom Anderson:
On 24 Jan 2005 wrote:

Tom Anderson:

I'm not sure about the one colour per terminal, though. LU's maps
have
the idea of one colour per line, which i think should be
maintained,
and i'm not sure that you can consider all routes which go to the
same
terminal to be a single line. The Windsor and Guildford lines, for
example, both go to Waterloo, but really aren't one line. Perhaps
different lines serving the same termini could be distinguished by
different hues or shades of the same base colour? If Waterloo was
red,
Windsor could be burgundy, Guildford scarlet, etc. I'm not sure
what
you'd do about Thameslink services which go via Blackfriars and
London
Bridge; either have the line change colour as it crosses the
river, or
leave it off the map!


I don't think every different route needs different colours



Well, it doesn't *need* it, strictly, but i think it'd be more useful.
I'm
not saying every combination of source and destination should have a
unique colour, just that colours should be used to break the routes up
into more than the three or four groups colouring by terminal would
give.

It'd be more than three or four, surely. I count:

-Fenchurch Street
-Liverpool Street (split into via Hackney, via Stratford)
-Kings Cross/Moorgate
-Thameslink
-Euston
-Marylebone
-Paddington
-Heathrow Express
-Waterloo (split into via Putney, via Wimbledon)
-Victoria (split into via Balham, via Brixton perhaps)
-Blackfriars
-Charing Cross/Cannon Street-London Bridge (South Eastern lines -
perhaps split into North Kent and Mid-Kent lines)
-London Bridge (Southern Lines)
-Orbital routes

That's a lot of colours.


Would you really colour the West Anglia and Great Eastern lines the
same,
just because they both run into Liverpool Street? Does that mean we
should
also colour the Central and Hammersmith & City lines the same?


Not at all - see above.


(and there are limits on the number of them you can have,
particularly
given the tube will be included as well).


Hmm. I think there are few enough colours left after the tube lines
that
we're going to have duplication anyway.


You may be right. Thicker or thinner lines, then...?


Jonn

Frequent service maps...
 

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

What was actually winding me up, though, was not on-load popups, which
Firefox suppresses very effectively, but target-new links - where you
click on a link and it gives you the target in a new window. This is
completely and utterly wrong, worthless, irritating, unusable, evil,
bad, selfish and generally not on behaviour.

It always seems a good idea to me that links off a site should open a new
window.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Frequent service maps...
 

Tom Anderson wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:

What was actually winding me up, though, was not on-load popups, which
Firefox suppresses very effectively, but target-new links - where you
click on a link and it gives you the target in a new window. This is
completely and utterly wrong, worthless, irritating, unusable, evil, bad,
selfish and generally not on behaviour.

Oh, I disagree - there are lots of times I want a link to open in a new
window - or a new tab, in Firefox - and it doesn't, and then I swear
because I've lost the page I was originally looking at! I'd far rather
that was the default.....

Or is this just me?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm afraid it is! But each to his or her
own....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

Frequent service maps...
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:


What was actually winding me up, though, was not on-load popups, which
Firefox suppresses very effectively, but target-new links - where you
click on a link and it gives you the target in a new window. This is
completely and utterly wrong, worthless, irritating, unusable, evil,
bad, selfish and generally not on behaviour.


It always seems a good idea to me that links off a site should open a new
window.

In Internet Explorer it's not a terrible idea as opening a link a new
window is an alien concept to many users and involves right-clicking and
choosing the option.

However, in the newer browsers which support tabs (like Firefox) then
opening a new tab with a middle-click is a much more natural browsing
process and auto-opening a new window becomes annoying when you have
mentally set aside single-click as "this tab" and middle-click as "new tab".

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:


What was actually winding me up, though, was not on-load popups, which
Firefox suppresses very effectively, but target-new links - where you
click on a link and it gives you the target in a new window. This is
completely and utterly wrong, worthless, irritating, unusable, evil, bad,
selfish and generally not on behaviour.

Oh, I disagree - there are lots of times I want a link to open in a new
window - or a new tab, in Firefox - and it doesn't, and then I swear
because I've lost the page I was originally looking at! I'd far rather
that was the default.....

Annabel, if you download the powerful Tab Browser Extensions from
http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/tabextensions/index.html.en then you can
set this amongst a huge host of other preferences to do with how your
tabs and windows work. For example, you can specify that *all* links
open in a new tab, or just links to an external site.

Or is this just me?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm afraid it is! But each to his or her
own....

The beauty of Firefox et al is that extensions are available to
customise to this whole bizarre range of browsing preferences...
personally I sit in the middle and like to pick and choose what I open
in a new window - but I certainly don't want things forcing themselves
into one.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:


Annabel, if you download the powerful Tab Browser Extensions from
http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/tabextensions/index.html.en then you
can set this amongst a huge host of other preferences to do with how
your tabs and windows work. For example, you can specify that *all*
links open in a new tab, or just links to an external site.

Thanks, Dave - in fact, this was not recommended by the Mozilla people,
so I downloaded their recommended one instead:
http://tinyurl.com/5w4qu

The beauty of Firefox et al is that extensions are available to customise
to this whole bizarre range of browsing preferences... personally I sit in
the middle and like to pick and choose what I open in a new window -
but I certainly don't want things forcing themselves into one.

Well, quite.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:

Thanks, Dave - in fact, this was not recommended by the Mozilla
people, so I downloaded their recommended one instead:
http://tinyurl.com/5w4qu

JFYI, I maintain that extension. If you want additional tab features,
you should add the miniT, Click2Tab, FLST and Undo Close Tab
extensions. All these are more can be had from
http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/

Frequent service maps...
 

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

In Internet Explorer it's not a terrible idea as opening
a link a new window is an alien concept to many users
and involves right-clicking and choosing the option.

No, you hold the shift key down as you left-click on the link.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:

Mrs Redboots wrote:

Thanks, Dave - in fact, this was not recommended by the Mozilla
people, so I downloaded their recommended one instead:
http://tinyurl.com/5w4qu

JFYI, I maintain that extension. If you want additional tab features,
you should add the miniT, Click2Tab, FLST and Undo Close Tab
extensions. All these are more can be had from
http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/

Thank you. I find I am liking Firefox more and more, the more I use it.
Daughter and her fiancé made me download it at first, but I don't think
even they realise some of its features! I've spent several hours this
afternoon playing with it, and really making friends with it. Now all I
have to do is learn to write source code....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

Frequent service maps...
 

John Rowland wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

In Internet Explorer it's not a terrible idea as opening
a link a new window is an alien concept to many users
and involves right-clicking and choosing the option.


No, you hold the shift key down as you left-click on the link.

Oops.

Oh well - middle-clicking is easier, and tabs are easier to use than
windows.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:


Mrs Redboots wrote:

Thanks, Dave - in fact, this was not recommended by the Mozilla
people, so I downloaded their recommended one instead:
http://tinyurl.com/5w4qu

JFYI, I maintain that extension. If you want additional tab features,
you should add the miniT, Click2Tab, FLST and Undo Close Tab
extensions. All these are more can be had from
http://www.extensionsmirror.nl/


Thank you. I find I am liking Firefox more and more, the more I use it.
Daughter and her fiancé made me download it at first, but I don't think
even they realise some of its features! I've spent several hours this
afternoon playing with it, and really making friends with it. Now all I
have to do is learn to write source code....

I've been using it for ages and only this week discovered an extremely
useful feature - type "goto search term" in the address bar and it'll do
a Google I'm Feeling Lucky search on the search term. If you can guess
easily how to bring up a site as the first result, then this is
extremely quick. For example: "goto tfl 2016 map".

You can also add your own keywords to any bookmark, which is again very
useful, so you can quickly access links even if they're not on your
quick links bar. For example, I have the keyword "tfljp" which takes me
directly to TfL's full Journey Planner, rather than the front page of
journeyplanner.org.

Notice how I kept all that vaguely relevant to u.t.l :-)

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:


I've been using it for ages and only this week discovered an extremely
useful feature - type "goto search term" in the address bar and it'll do a
Google I'm Feeling Lucky search on the search term. If you can guess
easily how to bring up a site as the first result, then this is extremely
quick. For example: "goto tfl 2016 map".

And if you happen to want to go to the TFL home page, you just type in
"Transport for London" (without the quotes) and, lo and behold.... The
one that doesn't work is "Live departure boards" as they've moved it!

You can also add your own keywords to any bookmark, which is again
very useful, so you can quickly access links even if they're not on your
quick links bar. For example, I have the keyword "tfljp" which takes me
directly to TfL's full Journey Planner, rather than the front page of
journeyplanner.org.

While that is quicker than typing in "TFL Journey Planner", you can do
that, too, without having to add in a link.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:


I've been using it for ages and only this week discovered an extremely
useful feature - type "goto search term" in the address bar and it'll do a
Google I'm Feeling Lucky search on the search term. If you can guess
easily how to bring up a site as the first result, then this is extremely
quick. For example: "goto tfl 2016 map".


And if you happen to want to go to the TFL home page, you just type in
"Transport for London" (without the quotes) and, lo and behold.... The
one that doesn't work is "Live departure boards" as they've moved it!

I didn't realise it didn't require the "goto"!

You can also add your own keywords to any bookmark, which is again
very useful, so you can quickly access links even if they're not on your
quick links bar. For example, I have the keyword "tfljp" which takes me
directly to TfL's full Journey Planner, rather than the front page of
journeyplanner.org.

While that is quicker than typing in "TFL Journey Planner", you can do
that, too, without having to add in a link.

Firefox + Google = powerful.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Also, if you go to 'Tools' 'Extensions' there's plenty you can add to the
basic Firefox.

I've got Chatzilla (for irc) and Sage (for rss (don't ask - I'm not entirely
clear what rss is, myself)).

--
Ian Tindale

Frequent service maps...
 

On 25 Jan 2005 wrote:

Tom Anderson:
On 24 Jan 2005 wrote:

Tom Anderson:

I'm not sure about the one colour per terminal, though. LU's maps
have the idea of one colour per line, which i think should be
maintained,

I don't think every different route needs different colours

Well, it doesn't *need* it, strictly, but i think it'd be more useful.
I'm not saying every combination of source and destination should have
a unique colour, just that colours should be used to break the routes
up into more than the three or four groups colouring by terminal would
give.

It'd be more than three or four, surely. I count:

-Fenchurch Street
-Liverpool Street (split into via Hackney, via Stratford)
-Kings Cross/Moorgate
-Thameslink
-Euston
-Marylebone
-Paddington
-Heathrow Express
-Waterloo (split into via Putney, via Wimbledon)
-Victoria (split into via Balham, via Brixton perhaps)
-Blackfriars
-Charing Cross/Cannon Street-London Bridge (South Eastern lines -
perhaps split into North Kent and Mid-Kent lines)
-London Bridge (Southern Lines)
-Orbital routes

That's a lot of colours.

A good point, well made; i'd been ignoring the lines north of the river.
However, i'd say there were 12 termini, to your 14:

Fenchurch Street
Liverpool Street (Hackney, Stratford)
King's Cross St Pancras / Moorgate
Thameslink
Euston
Marylebone
Paddington
Waterloo (Richmond, Wimbledon)
Victoria (Clapham Junction, Clapham High Street)
Blackfriars
London Bridge, including CX/CS (Southern, North Kent, Mid-Kent)
Orbital

There are 12 LU lines, so we could cover each terminus without too much
trouble, but LU already use shades, so it would be tricky to make my
scheme work. You might manage it with some low cunning - count Fenchurch
Street as Liverpool Street, count King's Cross, Blackfriars and Thameslink
as a single unit, etc.

Liverpool Street - red
Hackney - deep red
Stratford - bright red
Fenchurch Street - pink
Thameslink Axis - purple
Thameslink - royal purple
King's Cross + Moorgate - deep purple (Metropolitan)
Blackfriars - lilac (ugh)
Euston - yellow
Lines Vaguely Towards The West - brown
Paddington - brown
Marylebone - tan
Waterloo - green
Richmond - light green
Wimbledon - dark green
Victoria - blue
Clapham Junction - light blue
Clapham High Street - dark blue
London Bridge - (black)
Southern - black
North Kent - dark grey
Mid-Kent - light grey
Orbital - orange

How does that look? Ideally, i'd use black for orbital routes (no terminal
= no colour), but the multiple shades are just too useful.

Alternatively, perhaps the different lines could be differentiated by
shape? They could be decorated with lumps or nicks (like the tram on the
TfL London Connections map).

Also, things'll be easier once we have Crossrail - GE and GW could be the
same colour! I'm not sure what effect TL2k will have ...

(and there are limits on the number of them you can have,
particularly given the tube will be included as well).

Hmm. I think there are few enough colours left after the tube lines
that we're going to have duplication anyway.

You may be right. Thicker or thinner lines, then...?

For railways? As now, i'd say - hollow lines.

tom

--
I see large and small words on this page, arranged in long rows separated by little dotty characters. Suspect written by little dotty characters, too. -- RonJeffries

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Mrs Redboots wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:

JFYI, I maintain that extension. If you want additional tab features,
you should add the miniT, Click2Tab, FLST and Undo Close Tab
extensions.

Oh, i hadn't seen Undo Close Tab before - useful!

Thank you. I find I am liking Firefox more and more, the more I use it.
Daughter and her fiancé made me download it at first, but I don't think
even they realise some of its features! I've spent several hours this
afternoon playing with it, and really making friends with it. Now all I
have to do is learn to write source code....

That's the spirit!

I've been using it for ages and only this week discovered an extremely
useful feature - type "goto search term" in the address bar and it'll do
a Google I'm Feeling Lucky search on the search term. If you can guess
easily how to bring up a site as the first result, then this is
extremely quick. For example: "goto tfl 2016 map".

As has been pointed out, you don't need the goto. Also, if you'd rather
have the full search results than the I'm Feeling Lucky redirect, you can
change it: enter "about:config" in the location bar, pause briefly to
marvel at the vista of tweaking opportunities that has just opened to you,
find the entry for browser.search.defaulturl (for example, by entering it
into the filter box) and change it to:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=

Or some other search URL.

You can also add your own keywords to any bookmark, which is again very
useful, so you can quickly access links even if they're not on your
quick links bar. For example, I have the keyword "tfljp" which takes me
directly to TfL's full Journey Planner, rather than the front page of
journeyplanner.org.

Ah, but have you felt the awesome power of fully operational search
shortcuts? Make a bookmark with a %s (percent sign, letter s) in the URL
and give it a keyword. Now enter "keyword something" in the location bar;
you'll go the URL you entered, but with the %s replaced with the text
after the keyword. For example, i've got:

http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk...mary.aspx?T=%s

With the keyword 'ldb'; thus, i can type 'ldb FPK' to see the trains at
Finsbury Park. That might actually be a bad example, since a google search
for 'ldb FPK' seems to do just as well!

What's more, you can combine search shortcuts with bookmarklets to
essentially turn your location bar into a command line interface - and
that's what i call REAL ultimate power :).

tom

--
eviscerated by obfuscation

Frequent service maps...
 

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

John Rowland wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

In Internet Explorer it's not a terrible idea as opening a link a new
window is an alien concept to many users and involves right-clicking
and choosing the option.

No, you hold the shift key down as you left-click on the link.

Oh well - middle-clicking is easier

Not on a Mac!

tom

--
eviscerated by obfuscation

OT: Mouse buttons (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

John Rowland wrote:

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

In Internet Explorer it's not a terrible idea as opening a link a new
window is an alien concept to many users and involves right-clicking
and choosing the option.

No, you hold the shift key down as you left-click on the link.

Oh well - middle-clicking is easier

Not on a Mac!

That's what people get when they choose design over... erm... multiple
mouse buttons. I depend heavily on all three of mine...

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Mrs Redboots wrote:

TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:

JFYI, I maintain that extension. If you want additional tab features,
you should add the miniT, Click2Tab, FLST and Undo Close Tab
extensions.

Oh, i hadn't seen Undo Close Tab before - useful!

I have an itchy trigger finger and click everything with every button,
so I've found it extremely useful.

[Firefox]
[snip very useful info]
You can also add your own keywords to any bookmark, which is again very
useful, so you can quickly access links even if they're not on your
quick links bar. For example, I have the keyword "tfljp" which takes me
directly to TfL's full Journey Planner, rather than the front page of
journeyplanner.org.

Ah, but have you felt the awesome power of fully operational search
shortcuts? Make a bookmark with a %s (percent sign, letter s) in the URL
and give it a keyword. Now enter "keyword something" in the location bar;
you'll go the URL you entered, but with the %s replaced with the text
after the keyword. For example, i've got:

http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk...mary.aspx?T=%s

With the keyword 'ldb'; thus, i can type 'ldb FPK' to see the trains at
Finsbury Park. That might actually be a bad example, since a google search
for 'ldb FPK' seems to do just as well!

I did know about these but I forgot about Live Departure Boards.
Excellent idea. I'm using "trains" as my keyword... people will think I
have some magical computer which works out what I want when I type it in!

Another useful one is:
http://www.multimap.com/map/places.cgi?quicksearch=%s

With keyword "map", the country is at your disposal with postcodes or
places (street names work sometimes but are a bit flaky).

What's more, you can combine search shortcuts with bookmarklets to
essentially turn your location bar into a command line interface - and
that's what i call REAL ultimate power :).

That's quite scary, and I hadn't even thought of it.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Ian Tindale wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:

Also, if you go to 'Tools' 'Extensions' there's plenty you can add to the
basic Firefox.

I've got Chatzilla (for irc) and Sage (for rss (don't ask - I'm not entirely
clear what rss is, myself)).

Nor am I, but I think it's to do with live websites - you can, for
instance put a "live bookmark" for BBC News on it, and the headlines in
the bookmark update themselves automagically throughout the day, which I
find quite remarkable.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Tom Anderson wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:

What's more, you can combine search shortcuts with bookmarklets to
essentially turn your location bar into a command line interface - and
that's what i call REAL ultimate power :).

I know this is *quite* the wrong forum to ask in, but what *are*
"bookmarklets"?
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Tom Anderson wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:

With the keyword 'ldb'; thus, i can type 'ldb FPK' to see the trains at
Finsbury Park. That might actually be a bad example, since a google search
for 'ldb FPK' seems to do just as well!

But "ldb RDH" doesn't work at all, so it's as well to do it the long
way.

What's more, you can combine search shortcuts with bookmarklets to
essentially turn your location bar into a command line interface - and
that's what i call REAL ultimate power :).

I've now found out what they are and downloaded some for conversions -
so necessary as I spend a lot of time on-line with American friends!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

OT: Mouse buttons (was Frequent service maps...)
 

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:21:30 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:

That's what people get when they choose design over... erm... multiple
mouse buttons. I depend heavily on all three of mine...

Indeed. The single mouse button on a Mac doesn't lead to a more
efficient UI design - it instead leads to what I've heard described as
"Shift-Ctrl-leg-in-the-air-Click", IYSWIM.

And I *like* my context menus, as a former Acorn RISC-OS user
(superbly intuitive UI, and 3 mouse buttons!).

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

OT: Mouse buttons (was Frequent service maps...)
 

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 19:39:46 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

Indeed. The single mouse button on a Mac doesn't lead to a more
efficient UI design - it instead leads to what I've heard described as
"Shift-Ctrl-leg-in-the-air-Click", IYSWIM.

That something like the funniest description for programming VMS I read
recently.

75% Data structures
10% Interrupts
10% Code
5% Tibetan prayer wheel.


Or you can commit macophile heresy and plug a 3 button wheel mouse in.



greg

--
Yeah - straight from the top of my dome
As I rock, rock, rock, rock, rock the microphone

OT: Tabbed browsing (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
Ian Tindale wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 25 Jan 2005:


Also, if you go to 'Tools' 'Extensions' there's plenty you can add to the
basic Firefox.

I've got Chatzilla (for irc) and Sage (for rss (don't ask - I'm not entirely
clear what rss is, myself)).


Nor am I, but I think it's to do with live websites - you can, for
instance put a "live bookmark" for BBC News on it, and the headlines in
the bookmark update themselves automagically throughout the day, which I
find quite remarkable.

Or (shameless plug!) you could even subscribe to my news and updates
feeds on my website :-) For example, if you add my news feed to it,
headlines will come every so often on it and you can click straight
through to the news article I originally discovered.

However, I prefer the implementation in Firefox's sister program, the
Thunderbird mail+news client. You can subscribe to RSS feeds there, and
new articles come up like emails in dedicated inboxes.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

OT: Mouse buttons (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Neil Williams writes:
Indeed. The single mouse button on a Mac doesn't lead to a more
efficient UI design - it instead leads to what I've heard described as
"Shift-Ctrl-leg-in-the-air-Click", IYSWIM.

At this point I am reminded of an American car I rented a few years
ago. It happened that I had some time to kill while sitting in the
car, so I started reading the manual. I learned that one of the car's
fancier features -- which I will not explain here -- had four different
settings, to be selected according to the owner's preference.

The thing is that the designers must have wanted to avoid the expense
of providing a separate four-position switch for a feature whose setting
would hardly ever be changed once it was set initially (probably by the
dealer). But they also wanted it to be impossible to change the setting
by accident in normal driving.

So what you had to do to advance the option setting by N steps in its
cycle was this, starting with the engine stopped:

[1] Turn the ignition key to the "on" position (not "start").
Then:
[2] With your left hand (driver's seat is on the left, remember),
hold down the door-lock button in the armrest.
[3] With your foot, hold down the brake pedal.
And simultaneously:
[4] With your right hand, move the automatic transmission out of
Park and back into Park -- N+1 times!

At least, that's what it said in the manual. I didn't actually try it.
I didn't try pressing Control-Alt-Delete either. :-)
--
Mark Brader | "...being permitted to propel a ton of steel through
Toronto | public places at speeds of up to 33 m/s is not a
| fundamental human right in my book" -- Paul Ciszek

My text in this article is in the public domain.

OT: Mouse buttons (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Mark Brader ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

I learned that one of the car's
fancier features -- which I will not explain here

Please do! Sounds, erm, esoteric...

OT: Mouse buttons (was Frequent service maps...)
 

Huge wrote:

Don't try and convince a Mac zealot of that, though.

I don't think there's much danger of that. We all know it's ridiculous only
having one (or no) button - even those that have never tried a proper
mouse. Fortunately, it works very well with proper after-market USB
many-buttoned scroll-wheel mice (and can even be made left-handed with
various software).

--
Ian Tindale

OT: Mouse buttons (was Frequent service maps...)
 

On 26 Jan 2005, Huge wrote:

(Neil Williams) writes:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:21:30 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:

That's what people get when they choose design over... erm... multiple
mouse buttons. I depend heavily on all three of mine...

Indeed. The single mouse button on a Mac doesn't lead to a more
efficient UI design - it instead leads to what I've heard described as
"Shift-Ctrl-leg-in-the-air-Click", IYSWIM.

Don't try and convince a Mac zealot of that, though.

DIE, WINFIDELS!!!

it's actually pretty rare to do anything other than a plain click (or a
shift- or command- click to do multiple selections, as on a PC).
command-clicking for tabs and control-clicking for context menus are about
it. i can't think of any multiple-modifier clicks. i wish they'd swap
command and control, though - it feels much more sense to use
command-click for menus, given that the command key is already something
to do with menus. it feels almost blasphemous to use it for simple
multiple selection!

IMNERHO, the nastiest hack is actually the way older versions of Netscape
did context menus - click and hold.

"ctrl-alt-meta-cokebottle"

there's nowt wrong wi' meta!

tom

--
Know who said that? ****ing Terrorvision, that's who.

OT: Mouse buttons (was Frequent service maps...)
 

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, Mark Brader wrote:

So what you had to do to advance the option setting by N steps in its
cycle was this, starting with the engine stopped:

[1] Turn the ignition key to the "on" position (not "start").
Then:
[2] With your left hand (driver's seat is on the left, remember),
hold down the door-lock button in the armrest.
[3] With your foot, hold down the brake pedal.
And simultaneously:
[4] With your right hand, move the automatic transmission out of
Park and back into Park -- N+1 times!

Good god. Was this car by any chance designed by the people who do
beat-'em-up video games? That lot sounds remarkably reminiscent of some of
the tricker moves from Street Fighter II ...

tom

--
Know who said that? ****ing Terrorvision, that's who.

Frequent service maps...
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
John Rowland

I am not convinced that the station
names should be coloured at all,

Sorry, I wasn't clear there. I didn't intend
that station names should be coloured,

I know, I was criticising the map, not anything you had suggested.

I'd propose a slightly different model,
in which each London terminal was given a colour,

Only lines which cross need to have different colours. (The LU lines are an
exception, because their colours are a given.)

You know, it's five years since I made that map on
your site, and I find I'm still obsessing over this stuff.
I wonder if I have a syndrome of some sort.

As soon as a psychologist finds people like you interesting, you suddenly
acquire a syndrome. I wouldn't worry about it.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Frequent service maps...
 

John Rowland wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

John Rowland

I am not convinced that the station
names should be coloured at all,

Sorry, I wasn't clear there. I didn't intend
that station names should be coloured,


I know, I was criticising the map, not anything you had suggested.


I'd propose a slightly different model,
in which each London terminal was given a colour,


Only lines which cross need to have different colours. (The LU lines are an
exception, because their colours are a given.)


You know, it's five years since I made that map on
your site, and I find I'm still obsessing over this stuff.
I wonder if I have a syndrome of some sort.


As soon as a psychologist finds people like you interesting, you suddenly
acquire a syndrome. I wouldn't worry about it.

I do sometimes wonder if some weird syndrome will be discovered to
explain away my unhealthy fascination with transport. I already have a
solution, though... try to turn it into a job!

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

OT: Mouse buttons
 

Neil Williams wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 11:21:30 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:

That's what people get when they choose design over... erm... multiple
mouse buttons. I depend heavily on all three of mine...

Indeed. The single mouse button on a Mac doesn't lead to a more
efficient UI design - it instead leads to what I've heard described as
"Shift-Ctrl-leg-in-the-air-Click", IYSWIM.

Apart from when you're playing minefield, it doesn't usually lead to a
less efficient UI design either. Most Mac browsers give you a contextual
menu if you hold the mouse button down for half a second. I think the
alternative of control clicking only came about because someone noticed
the control key was hardly ever used...

And I *like* my context menus, as a former Acorn RISC-OS user
(superbly intuitive UI, and 3 mouse buttons!).

If you want 3 mouse buttons, all you have to do is get a three button
mouse. But unlike mice (where extra buttons are slightly useful) I find
trackpads are much more convenient with a single button.