Anyone know how 'too schedule' the City Airport extension project is on
the DLR at the moment?

I notice that the Beckton branch is closed all weekend from 7pm last
night to start of service Monday morning for testing on the City Airport
branch - presumbly this is just testing around the Canning Town junction
as I can't believe they've already got the whole line down ready for
complete testing?

If I remember rightly, the Lewisham extension was opened 4 months early
- due to open March 2000 and actually opened in November 1999. Is the
City Airport extension also running ahead of schedule?

I think the City Airport extension is due to open in November this year
- could we actually see it working this summer though instead?

Stevie wrote:
Anyone know how 'too schedule' the City Airport extension project is on
the DLR at the moment?

I notice that the Beckton branch is closed all weekend from 7pm last
night to start of service Monday morning for testing on the City Airport
branch - presumbly this is just testing around the Canning Town junction
as I can't believe they've already got the whole line down ready for
complete testing?

If I remember rightly, the Lewisham extension was opened 4 months early
- due to open March 2000 and actually opened in November 1999. Is the
City Airport extension also running ahead of schedule?

I think the City Airport extension is due to open in November this year
- could we actually see it working this summer though instead?

I went down there in late December and took some photos, some of which
are on my website at http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/9.

The viaduct was complete between Canning Town and just short of London
City Airport station, although the descending ramp from the station down
to the ground had been constructed. (The station itself hadn't been
started.) I didn't see the section between LCY and King George V.

I'm not sure how much (if any) track-laying has been done. West
Silvertown station was only about half-complete, and Pontoon Dock
station hadn't really been started.

I'd guess that the testing work was merely on the junction. The
scheduled opening date is 16 December this year; I think everything is
running to schedule but I've no idea whether they can complete it early.
The most difficult infrastructure (the viaducts) is already in place, so
it may be possible.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 11:57:21 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote:

Stevie wrote:
Anyone know how 'too schedule' the City Airport extension project is on
the DLR at the moment?
I notice that the Beckton branch is closed all weekend from 7pm last
night to start of service Monday morning for testing on the City
Airport branch - presumbly this is just testing around the Canning Town
junction as I can't believe they've already got the whole line down
ready for complete testing?
If I remember rightly, the Lewisham extension was opened 4 months
early - due to open March 2000 and actually opened in November 1999.
Is the City Airport extension also running ahead of schedule?
I think the City Airport extension is due to open in November this
year - could we actually see it working this summer though instead?

I went down there in late December and took some photos, some of which
are on my website at http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/9.

The viaduct was complete between Canning Town and just short of London
City Airport station, although the descending ramp from the station down
to the ground had been constructed. (The station itself hadn't been
started.) I didn't see the section between LCY and King George V.

I'm not sure how much (if any) track-laying has been done. West
Silvertown station was only about half-complete, and Pontoon Dock
station hadn't really been started.

I'd guess that the testing work was merely on the junction. The
scheduled opening date is 16 December this year; I think everything is
running to schedule but I've no idea whether they can complete it early.
The most difficult infrastructure (the viaducts) is already in place, so
it may be possible.


DLR announced on Monday
(http://developments.dlr.co.uk/extens...ails.asp?id=13) that the
viaducts are now completed and the project is on schedule to open in
December. Most of the track has been laid, or at least what you can see
round the Canning Town area, apart from a single section linking it to the
working lines. I suspect there will still need to be track laid around
the LCY area, as this was the last bit of viaduct to be built. The closure
this weekend I assume was to test the signalling of the new junction as
the signals were covered up before the engineering works, but turned on
afterwards.

Whilst were on about the DLR, the public enquiry into 'Capacity
enhancement' (upgrading to 3 car trains) started this week. DLR say most
of the objections have been withdrawn, so it looks likely to go ahead. On
this subject I've read that all the stations on the Lewisham extension
were built so they could either handle or be easily extended to handle 3
car trains. I can't see how at Cutty Sark. It's only big enough for 2
car trains and as is it's a deep level tunnel it is going to be quite
difficult to extend isn't it? I thought it would have been easier to
build the extended platform in the original construction, like they did
with other stations such as Bank, Canary Wharf and Canning Town.



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Stephen worheedatworheeddotf9dotcodotuk wrote the following in:
newspslyf6xh3wn44ge@stephen

On this subject I've read that all the
stations on the Lewisham extension were built so they could
either handle or be easily extended to handle 3 car trains. I
can't see how at Cutty Sark. It's only big enough for 2 car
trains and as is it's a deep level tunnel it is going to be quite
difficult to extend isn't it?

Are you sure it's not big enough? Last time I was there I think I had a
look and I seem to remember thinking that it probably was big enough
for three car trains.

--
message by Robin May.
Drinking Special Brew will get you drunk in much the same way that
going to prison will give you a roof over your head and free meals.

http://robinmay.fotopic.net

Robin May wrote:
Stephen worheedatworheeddotf9dotcodotuk wrote the following in:
newspslyf6xh3wn44ge@stephen


On this subject I've read that all the
stations on the Lewisham extension were built so they could
either handle or be easily extended to handle 3 car trains. I
can't see how at Cutty Sark. It's only big enough for 2 car
trains and as is it's a deep level tunnel it is going to be quite
difficult to extend isn't it?


Are you sure it's not big enough? Last time I was there I think I had a
look and I seem to remember thinking that it probably was big enough
for three car trains.

Whilst waiting for a DLR at Lewisham several months ago, I read a poster
that said that they planned to extend the service on that section to
three cars. It said that some stations would have to be extended to
cope with this but that one of the stations (South Quay IIRC) could not
be extended in situ and so would have to be relocated, albeit only
100-200 yds.

The thing that immediately struck me as odd was that, for a two car
service, some of the stations had been built unable to cope with
anything longer.

What struck me as even more odd was that, this lack of forethought
having already (5years) caused a problem, the new South Quay was only
going to be long enough to cater for three car trains.

Stephen Osborn wrote:
Robin May wrote:

Stephen worheedatworheeddotf9dotcodotuk wrote the following in:
newspslyf6xh3wn44ge@stephen

On this subject I've read that all the
stations on the Lewisham extension were built so they could
either handle or be easily extended to handle 3 car trains. I
can't see how at Cutty Sark. It's only big enough for 2 car
trains and as is it's a deep level tunnel it is going to be quite
difficult to extend isn't it?



Are you sure it's not big enough? Last time I was there I think I had
a look and I seem to remember thinking that it probably was big enough
for three car trains.


Whilst waiting for a DLR at Lewisham several months ago, I read a poster
that said that they planned to extend the service on that section to
three cars. It said that some stations would have to be extended to
cope with this but that one of the stations (South Quay IIRC) could not
be extended in situ and so would have to be relocated, albeit only
100-200 yds.

The thing that immediately struck me as odd was that, for a two car
service, some of the stations had been built unable to cope with
anything longer.

What struck me as even more odd was that, this lack of forethought
having already (5years) caused a problem, the new South Quay was only
going to be long enough to cater for three car trains.

Cutty Sark isn't long enough for three cars. Selective door opening will
be used to get around the problem at that particular station.
Lengthening platforms here would be very expensive (£30m), requiring
closure of the railway during construction and potentially needs some
buildings to be demolished at the surface, in a conservation area - so
it's a no-no.

It's relatively easy to extend all the other platforms on the Lewisham
extension.

Four-car trains were considered as part of the planning process but were
rejected at this stage as the infrastructure works would be
prohibitively disruptive. A light railway just isn't designed for the
sort of passenger numbers the DLR is now expected to deal with, and I
think these 3-car works are designed to plug the gap; the Woolwich
extension will make things worse, but hopefully the Jubilee signalling
upgrade and car addition will mitigate matters. Crossrail is needed.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Stephen Osborn" wrote in message
...

What struck me as even more odd was that, this lack
of forethought having already (5years) caused a problem,
the new South Quay was only
going to be long enough to cater for three car trains.

Extending non-tunnel platforms is cheap and easy. While the new South Quay
will be only long enough for three cars, I suspect it will be in a location
where it can be subsequenly extended.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Stephen worheed wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 11:57:21 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote:

Stevie wrote:

Anyone know how 'too schedule' the City Airport extension project is
on the DLR at the moment?
I notice that the Beckton branch is closed all weekend from 7pm
last night to start of service Monday morning for testing on the
City Airport branch - presumbly this is just testing around the
Canning Town junction as I can't believe they've already got the
whole line down ready for complete testing?
If I remember rightly, the Lewisham extension was opened 4 months
early - due to open March 2000 and actually opened in November
1999. Is the City Airport extension also running ahead of schedule?
I think the City Airport extension is due to open in November this
year - could we actually see it working this summer though instead?


I went down there in late December and took some photos, some of
which are on my website at http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/9.

The viaduct was complete between Canning Town and just short of
London City Airport station, although the descending ramp from the
station down to the ground had been constructed. (The station itself
hadn't been started.) I didn't see the section between LCY and King
George V.

I'm not sure how much (if any) track-laying has been done. West
Silvertown station was only about half-complete, and Pontoon Dock
station hadn't really been started.

I'd guess that the testing work was merely on the junction. The
scheduled opening date is 16 December this year; I think everything
is running to schedule but I've no idea whether they can complete it
early. The most difficult infrastructure (the viaducts) is already in
place, so it may be possible.


DLR announced on Monday
(http://developments.dlr.co.uk/extens...ails.asp?id=13) that
the viaducts are now completed and the project is on schedule to open
in December. Most of the track has been laid, or at least what you can
see round the Canning Town area, apart from a single section linking it
to the working lines. I suspect there will still need to be track laid
around the LCY area, as this was the last bit of viaduct to be built.
The closure this weekend I assume was to test the signalling of the new
junction as the signals were covered up before the engineering works,
but turned on afterwards.

Whilst were on about the DLR, the public enquiry into 'Capacity
enhancement' (upgrading to 3 car trains) started this week. DLR say
most of the objections have been withdrawn, so it looks likely to go
ahead. On this subject I've read that all the stations on the Lewisham
extension were built so they could either handle or be easily extended
to handle 3 car trains. I can't see how at Cutty Sark. It's only big
enough for 2 car trains and as is it's a deep level tunnel it is going
to be quite difficult to extend isn't it? I thought it would have been
easier to build the extended platform in the original construction,
like they did with other stations such as Bank, Canary Wharf and
Canning Town.

Incidentally, I heard on the grapevine that Tower Hamlets had placed an
objection for the public inquiry, on the grounds that 50% longer trains
would mean 50% more noise...

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Robin May" wrote in message
...
Stephen worheedatworheeddotf9dotcodotuk wrote the following in:
newspslyf6xh3wn44ge@stephen

On this subject I've read that all the
stations on the Lewisham extension were built so they could
either handle or be easily extended to handle 3 car trains. I
can't see how at Cutty Sark. It's only big enough for 2 car
trains and as is it's a deep level tunnel it is going to be quite
difficult to extend isn't it?

Are you sure it's not big enough? Last time I was there I think I had a
look and I seem to remember thinking that it probably was big enough
for three car trains.

--
message by Robin May.

Is it the case that the accessible platform area is shorter than the actual
tunnelled length?

That was the technique used in some of the Tyne & Wear Metro tunnelled
stations, the decorative linings end about a car length from the true
platform end, presumably saves fitting out costs, and ensuring that
passengers don't wait where the train isn't going to stop, if you see what I
mean..

Paul

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Stephen Osborn wrote:

What struck me as even more odd was that, this lack of forethought
having already (5years) caused a problem, the new South Quay was only
going to be long enough to cater for three car trains.

Four-car trains were considered as part of the planning process but were
rejected at this stage as the infrastructure works would be
prohibitively disruptive. A light railway just isn't designed for the
sort of passenger numbers the DLR is now expected to deal with, and I
think these 3-car works are designed to plug the gap;

This is the thing that really gets my goat about the DLR - complete and
utter lack of any foresight. Yes, at the time it was built, the area
didn't have a lot of traffic, and a light railway with two-car trains was
quite adequate. However, it was obvious that this wasn't going to be the
case forever, or even for very long. That this error is now being repeated
is utterly incomprehensible. Implementing three-car trains is a struggle,
four-car is going to be a nightmare, and the inevitable eventual
conversion (in places, reversion!) to heavy rail is going to be
apocalyptic.

Mumble typical Thatcherite short-termism mumble. Or perhaps it was
actually a sensible decision in the context of that government's plans to
depopulate the metropolis.

tom

--
Don't trust the laws of men. Trust the laws of mathematics.