02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Does anyone know if anything will be happening on this date at that
station?

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:

Does anyone know if anything will be happening on this date at that
station?

(A) What date? We don't have 28 months in a year..... (sorry, but doing
day-month-year is not only counter-intuitive, it's also American!)

(B) I assume trains will be running to-from it as usual, although not
Thameslink ones.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

On 7 Feb 2005 04:28:34 -0800, "TheOneKEA" wrote:

Does anyone know if anything will be happening on this date at that
station?

30th Anniversary of the 1975 Moorgate train crash?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2515033.stm

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:

Does anyone know if anything will be happening on this date at that
station?

(A) What date? We don't have 28 months in a year..... (sorry, but
doing day-month-year is not only counter-intuitive, it's also
American!)

*shrug*

I tend to use either MMDDYYYY or YYYYMMDD.


(B) I assume trains will be running to-from it as usual, although not
Thameslink ones.

Last I checked, Thameslink doesn't serve Moorgate GN&C, WA does.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

"Marc Brett" wrote in message
...
On 7 Feb 2005 04:28:34 -0800, "TheOneKEA" wrote:

Does anyone know if anything will be happening on this date at that
station?

30th Anniversary of the 1975 Moorgate train crash?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2515033.stm


Why should anything be happening?

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Brimstone wrote:

Why should anything be happening?

Because it is the 30-year anniversary of the worst train disaster on
the Underground to date?

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:

Mrs Redboots wrote:

(B) I assume trains will be running to-from it as usual, although not
Thameslink ones.

Last I checked, Thameslink doesn't serve Moorgate GN&C, WA does.

I think you'll find there were rush hour services until the blockade
started.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
oups.com...
Brimstone wrote:

Why should anything be happening?

Because it is the 30-year anniversary of the worst train disaster on
the Underground to date?


So what, why is there this fascination with commemorating every incident
than occurs where someone dies? How about commemorating Quitinshill,
Abermule, Harrow and the other incidents that have occured. We could also
add Staines, L:ockerbie and various other such incidents. What leads you to
suppose that the relatives and those involved as either as surviving
passengers or emergency services personnel want to be reminded?

The "memorial", if you want one, is in daily use all over the system. It's
know as "Moorgate Control".

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

TheOneKEA wrote:
Mrs Redboots wrote:

TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:

Does anyone know if anything will be happening on this date at that
station?


(A) What date? We don't have 28 months in a year..... (sorry, but
doing day-month-year is not only counter-intuitive, it's also
American!)

*shrug*

I tend to use either MMDDYYYY or YYYYMMDD.

Language is there to enable us to communicate.

No only does MMDDYYYY as a date format make no sense at all but, as it
is used in only a relatively small area, using it anywhere else hinders
rather than helps communication.

Also look at the group title.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:
Last I checked, Thameslink doesn't serve Moorgate GN&C, WA does.

I think you'll find there were rush hour services until the blockade
started.

*cough*

I said Moorgate _GN&C_ - Greant Northern & City, the underground NR
platforms. The subsurface NR platforms were indeed served by
Thameslink, but were originally part of the Met.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 19:16:29 +0000 (UTC), Stephen Osborn
wrote:

No only does MMDDYYYY as a date format make no sense at all but, as it
is used in only a relatively small area, using it anywhere else hinders
rather than helps communication.

I would agree with that.

In work (an American company, in which I frequently work with
colleagues from the US) I tend to insist on YYYY-MM-DD, as it cannot
be misinterpreted, seeing as no-one I'm aware of ever uses YYYY-DD-MM.
It also has the advantage of being easy to sort using simple sorting
techniques, as the significance of the digits decreases from left to
right just like any multi-digit number.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

TheOneKEA wrote:
Mrs Redboots wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:
Last I checked, Thameslink doesn't serve Moorgate GN&C, WA does.

I think you'll find there were rush hour services until the blockade
started.

*cough*

I said Moorgate _GN&C_ - Greant Northern & City, the underground NR
platforms. The subsurface NR platforms were indeed served by
Thameslink, but were originally part of the Met.

The City/Metropolitan Widened Lines were never used by the Met/LT/LU as they
were built for the exclusive use of GN, Midland and other mainline companies
trains.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Brimstone wrote:

So what, why is there this fascination with commemorating every
incident than occurs where someone dies? How about commemorating
Quitinshill, Abermule, Harrow and the other incidents that have
occured. We could also add Staines, L:ockerbie and various other
such incidents. What leads you to suppose that the relatives and
those involved as either as surviving passengers or emergency
services personnel want to be reminded?

The folks who were involved with Ladbroke Grove have certainly minded;
they had the memorial erected near the site of the crash and I believe
they visit there on the anniversary of the crash as well!

Considering that Moorgate was equally as terrible as Ladbroke Grove, it
seems only logical that the bereaved and anyone else involved in that
may want to hold some sort of ceremony. And I would not be surprised if
anyone involved in any of the incidents you named don't also do
something similar, even if it is informal.


The "memorial", if you want one, is in daily use all over the
system. It's know as "Moorgate Control".

Indeed!

Either way, I was only curious if anything official was planned.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

TheOneKEA wrote:

The folks who were involved with Ladbroke Grove have certainly
minded; they had the memorial erected near the site of the crash
and I believe they visit there on the anniversary of the crash as
well!

Considering that Moorgate was equally as terrible as Ladbroke
Grove, it seems only logical that the bereaved and anyone else
involved in that may want to hold some sort of ceremony. And I
would not be surprised if anyone involved in any of the incidents
you named don't also do something similar, even if it is informal.

I think the survivors and bereaved from the Ladbroke Grove crash will
want to continue visiting the memorial until they feel that the lessons
have all been learnt and solutions implemented. When that stage has been
reached, as it has for Moorgate, then if I were involved I would want to
remember and celebrate the lives of those who died rather than continue
to dwell on the way in which they died.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

TheOneKEA wrote:
Brimstone wrote:

So what, why is there this fascination with commemorating every
incident than occurs where someone dies? How about commemorating
Quitinshill, Abermule, Harrow and the other incidents that have
occured. We could also add Staines, L:ockerbie and various other
such incidents. What leads you to suppose that the relatives and
those involved as either as surviving passengers or emergency
services personnel want to be reminded?

The folks who were involved with Ladbroke Grove have certainly minded;
they had the memorial erected near the site of the crash and I believe
they visit there on the anniversary of the crash as well!

That is their personal choice and not one I'm intending to argue with. It
hasn't been instituted by officialdom or some other outsider.

Considering that Moorgate was equally as terrible as Ladbroke Grove,
it seems only logical that the bereaved and anyone else involved in
that may want to hold some sort of ceremony. And I would not be
surprised if anyone involved in any of the incidents you named don't
also do something similar, even if it is informal.

If they did it would more likely have been done at the 10th or 25th
anniversaries.

It is only in very recent years that this wish to commemorate every
incident, evidenced by the abundance of memorials at the scene of road and
other accidents, has arisen. Previously people learnt lessons (usually) and
got on with their lives, the bereaved were left to grieve in peace.


The "memorial", if you want one, is in daily use all over the
system. It's know as "Moorgate Control".

Indeed!

Either way, I was only curious if anything official was planned.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

On 7 Feb 2005 07:29:31 -0800, "TheOneKEA" wrote:



I tend to use either MMDDYYYY or YYYYMMDD.


Why?

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 20:24:58 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:



In work (an American company, in which I frequently work with
colleagues from the US)

Me too :-(

I tend to insist on YYYY-MM-DD, as it cannot

I use DD MMM which also cannot be misinterpreted.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

k wrote:
I use DD MMM which also cannot be misinterpreted.

Unless you speak a language where the months have different names.
Then you will just be extremely confused.
--
Michael Hoffman

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:

Mrs Redboots wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:
Last I checked, Thameslink doesn't serve Moorgate GN&C, WA does.

I think you'll find there were rush hour services until the blockade
started.

*cough*

I said Moorgate _GN&C_ - Greant Northern & City, the underground NR
platforms. The subsurface NR platforms were indeed served by
Thameslink, but were originally part of the Met.

Oh, I see. I have never been there, so wouldn't know.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Michael Hoffman wrote:
k wrote:

I use DD MMM which also cannot be misinterpreted.


Unless you speak a language where the months have different names.
Then you will just be extremely confused.

Untrue. Most people who are likely to be in this position (e.g. using
the Internet, working for an international company) speak some form of
English to some extent and so will have some familiarity with English
month names.

Also, with no knowledge of the language involved it is inherent that
01xyz is in DDMMM format and so I can try and find out what xyz is in my
language. 0102 has no no inherent format.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

"Stephen Osborn" wrote in message
...
Michael Hoffman wrote:
k wrote:

I use DD MMM which also cannot be misinterpreted.


Unless you speak a language where the months have different names.
Then you will just be extremely confused.

Untrue. Most people who are likely to be in this position (e.g. using the
Internet, working for an international company) speak some form of English
to some extent and so will have some familiarity with English month names.

Also, with no knowledge of the language involved it is inherent that 01xyz
is in DDMMM format and so I can try and find out what xyz is in my
language. 0102 has no no inherent format.

Whereas YYYY MM DD is very easily worked out by people who use any language
and the western calender.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:

Mrs Redboots wrote:
TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:
Last I checked, Thameslink doesn't serve Moorgate GN&C, WA does.

I think you'll find there were rush hour services until the blockade
started.

*cough*

I said Moorgate _GN&C_ - Greant Northern & City, the underground NR
platforms. The subsurface NR platforms were indeed served by
Thameslink, but were originally part of the Met.

Oh, I see. I have never been there, so wouldn't know.

Never been to Moorgate? Obviously you had a deprived childhood?

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Brimstone wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 8 Feb 2005:


"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...

Oh, I see. I have never been there, so wouldn't know.

Never been to Moorgate? Obviously you had a deprived childhood?


Definitely - I grew up in the country and "London" was really only
Knightsbridge and the area round Harrods.....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005, Brimstone wrote:

"Stephen Osborn" wrote in message
...
Michael Hoffman wrote:
k wrote:

I use DD MMM which also cannot be misinterpreted.

Unless you speak a language where the months have different names.
Then you will just be extremely confused.

Untrue. Most people who are likely to be in this position (e.g. using
the Internet, working for an international company) speak some form of
English to some extent and so will have some familiarity with English
month names.

Also, with no knowledge of the language involved it is inherent that
01xyz is in DDMMM format and so I can try and find out what xyz is in
my language. 0102 has no no inherent format.

Whereas YYYY MM DD is very easily worked out by people who use any
language and the western calender.

It's also an ISO standard, ISO 8601:

http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-serv...esandtime.html

Therefore, if you do not use it, UN black helicopters will come in the
night and take you away.

Incidentally, the ISO wants you to separate the elements with dashes and
to zero-pad, as in 2005-02-08.

tom

--
sh(1) was the first MOO

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:35:19 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

Whereas YYYY MM DD is very easily worked out by people who use any language
and the western calender.

Assuming you include the separators, which I did, and conventionally
for that format is the - character.

If not, it could mean two things in certain situations, and three in
others (depending on the year).

2004-02-01 fairly unambiguously means the 1st February 2004, as the
separation is clear, and I've never encountered anyone who used
YYYY-DD-MM that I can recall.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Neil Williams ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

I've never encountered anyone who used
YYYY-DD-MM that I can recall.

I've never come across any non-merkin who insisted on using MM DD YYYY,
either. But here we are.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 11:57:05 +0000, Michael Hoffman
wrote:

k wrote:
I use DD MMM which also cannot be misinterpreted.

Unless you speak a language where the months have different names.
Then you will just be extremely confused.

I don't. I speak English. Although our company has offices
throughout the world the "official" language is English. (As its an
American company it would be, after all "everyone speaks English
(American) don't they? :-))

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

In article , k wrote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 11:57:05 +0000, Michael Hoffman
wrote:

k wrote:
I use DD MMM which also cannot be misinterpreted.

Unless you speak a language where the months have different names.
Then you will just be extremely confused.

I don't. I speak English. Although our company has offices
throughout the world the "official" language is English. (As its an
American company it would be, after all "everyone speaks English
(American) don't they? :-))

Well, Ericsson, a Swedish-based and -owned multinational, also uses
English as its official language. So I think in practice, in the
business world, everyone really *does* speak English.

Similarly, I've just accepted a job with a small Stockholm-based company
95% staffed by Swedes and 100% owned by them (if I recall); its official
language is also English.

Niklas
--
"I always wanted to be a mad scientist, but never really got much past the
faintly-annoyed alchemist stage."
-- Mik

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

"Niklas Karlsson" wrote in message
...
In article , k wrote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 11:57:05 +0000, Michael Hoffman
wrote:

k wrote:
I use DD MMM which also cannot be misinterpreted.

Unless you speak a language where the months have different names.
Then you will just be extremely confused.

I don't. I speak English. Although our company has offices
throughout the world the "official" language is English. (As its an
American company it would be, after all "everyone speaks English
(American) don't they? :-))

Well, Ericsson, a Swedish-based and -owned multinational, also uses
English as its official language. So I think in practice, in the
business world, everyone really *does* speak English.

Similarly, I've just accepted a job with a small Stockholm-based company
95% staffed by Swedes and 100% owned by them (if I recall); its official
language is also English.


But which version of English? Americans claim to speak Englsih, but insist
on deviating from the original.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

In message , at 08:58:14 on Wed, 9
Feb 2005, Brimstone remarked:
But which version of English? Americans claim to speak Englsih, but insist
on deviating from the original.

Oddly enough, it's British English which has deviated from the original,
while American English has stagnated.
--
Roland Perry

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:58:14 on Wed, 9
Feb 2005, Brimstone remarked:
But which version of English? Americans claim to speak Englsih, but
insist on deviating from the original.

Oddly enough, it's British English which has deviated from the
original, while American English has stagnated.

To be fair, I suspect that both preceeding statements have elements of
truth, depending on which words and phrases are being discussed.

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
Brimstone wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 8 Feb 2005:


"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...


Oh, I see. I have never been there, so wouldn't know.

Never been to Moorgate? Obviously you had a deprived childhood?

Definitely - I grew up in the country and "London" was really only
Knightsbridge and the area round Harrods.....

Would you believe I've been living down the road in South Kensington for
two-and-a-half years and I've still never been to Harrods...

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 9 Feb 2005:

Would you believe I've been living down the road in South Kensington
for two-and-a-half years and I've still never been to Harrods...

You haven't missed anything! It is vastly inferior these days.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Dave Arquati wrote:
Mrs Redboots wrote:
Brimstone wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 8 Feb 2005:


"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...


Oh, I see. I have never been there, so wouldn't know.

Never been to Moorgate? Obviously you had a deprived childhood?

Definitely - I grew up in the country and "London" was really only
Knightsbridge and the area round Harrods.....

Would you believe I've been living down the road in South
Kensington for two-and-a-half years and I've still never been to
Harrods...

Well done. Mr Fayed's shop is on my banned list too.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

In article , Brimstone wrote:

"Niklas Karlsson" wrote in message
...
In article , k wrote:
I don't. I speak English. Although our company has offices
throughout the world the "official" language is English. (As its an
American company it would be, after all "everyone speaks English
(American) don't they? :-))

Well, Ericsson, a Swedish-based and -owned multinational, also uses
English as its official language. So I think in practice, in the
business world, everyone really *does* speak English.

Similarly, I've just accepted a job with a small Stockholm-based company
95% staffed by Swedes and 100% owned by them (if I recall); its official
language is also English.

But which version of English? Americans claim to speak Englsih, but insist
on deviating from the original.

I'm unsure which, if any, variant of English is the official one in
either of the companies I mentioned. I suspect that in practice,
Ericssonites use whatever they're most accustomed to: American Ericsson
staff use US-style English, Commonwealth staff use British English, etc.

What Swedes use seems to depend on whether they paid more attention in
school (English is mandatory from 4th grade up, and almost exclusively
taught in the British variant) or to Hollywood movies. :-)

Or didn't pay attention at all, which has resulted in things like the
guy who arrived at the airport and said to the gentlemen who'd come
there to pick him up, "I am the Swedish VD you are waiting for." (VD =
verkställande direktör = managing director, or CEO)

Niklas
--
I mean, who could fail to enjoy doing Bristol - London along a
congested M4 in a 60mph steamroller?
-- Michael Hudson

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

In article , Roland
Perry writes
But which version of English? Americans claim to speak Englsih, but insist
on deviating from the original.
Oddly enough, it's British English which has deviated from the
original, while American English has stagnated.

Neither statement is true; both have deviated from Middle English in
various ways, and of course ME is in turn a deviation from Old English.
There are some characteristics - notably pronunciation - where American
has deviated less.

Ask the Dutch: 10th century English (though called Frisian) is an
official language in the Netherlands.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Niklas Karlsson wrote:
In article , Brimstone wrote:

"Niklas Karlsson" wrote in message
...
In article , k wrote:
I don't. I speak English. Although our company has offices
throughout the world the "official" language is English. (As its
an American company it would be, after all "everyone speaks English
(American) don't they? :-))

Well, Ericsson, a Swedish-based and -owned multinational, also uses
English as its official language. So I think in practice, in the
business world, everyone really *does* speak English.

Similarly, I've just accepted a job with a small Stockholm-based
company 95% staffed by Swedes and 100% owned by them (if I recall);
its official language is also English.

But which version of English? Americans claim to speak Englsih, but
insist on deviating from the original.

I'm unsure which, if any, variant of English is the official one in
either of the companies I mentioned. I suspect that in practice,
Ericssonites use whatever they're most accustomed to: American
Ericsson staff use US-style English, Commonwealth staff use British
English, etc.

What Swedes use seems to depend on whether they paid more attention in
school (English is mandatory from 4th grade up, and almost exclusively
taught in the British variant) or to Hollywood movies. :-)

Or didn't pay attention at all, which has resulted in things like the
guy who arrived at the airport and said to the gentlemen who'd come
there to pick him up, "I am the Swedish VD you are waiting for." (VD =
verkställande direktör = managing director, or CEO)


ROFL - I bet that raised the driver's eyebrows!!

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Mrs Redboots wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 9 Feb 2005:

Would you believe I've been living down the road in South Kensington
for two-and-a-half years and I've still never been to Harrods...

You haven't missed anything!

KRISPY KREME.

tom

--
eviscerated by obfuscation

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

Tom Anderson wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 9 Feb 2005:

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005, Mrs Redboots wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 9 Feb 2005:

Would you believe I've been living down the road in South Kensington
for two-and-a-half years and I've still never been to Harrods...

You haven't missed anything!

KRISPY KREME.

Like I said, you haven't missed anything!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

02-28-2005 at Moorgate
 

JRS: In article
, dated Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:24:25, seen in news:uk.transport.london, Tom
Anderson posted :

Incidentally, the ISO wants you to separate the elements with dashes and
to zero-pad, as in 2005-02-08.

ISO 8601:2000 specifies that the separators are hyphens; it does not
give the Unicode encoding. However, IIRC, a dash is not a hyphen.
Mostly, I expect that Unicode 0045 = ISO-7 45 will be used; that's the
well-known keyboard character commonly used for "minus".

I've not yet seen ISO 8601:2004.

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc : URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/ - see 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.