On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:00:14 GMT, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:50:58 +0000, k wrote:

...and so much more useful! Why *can't* you load a ODTC onto oyster?
Surely its not technically difficult?

Because it wouldn't be a true ODTC, because you couldn't use it on
National Rail.

I have no problem using my annual on National Rail...

James Farrar wrote:
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:00:14 GMT, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:50:58 +0000, k wrote:

...and so much more useful! Why *can't* you load a ODTC onto
oyster?
Surely its not technically difficult?

Because it wouldn't be a true ODTC, because you couldn't use it on
National Rail.

I have no problem using my annual on National Rail...

Exactly - ODTCs issued at Tube stations on London Underground stock are
valid on National Rail, so why shouldn't Oyster-based ODTCs be? All
barriered NR stations have Oyster readers on the barriers, after all.
(And I've never had any trouble with my monthly Z1-3, despite living
nowhere near a tube station and rarely using the tube.)

...and so much more useful! Why *can't* you load a ODTC onto oyster?
Surely its not technically difficult?

Because it wouldn't be a true ODTC, because you couldn't use it on
National Rail.

And why not? The National Rail ticket gates are perfectly capable of
accepting period Travelcards on Oyster and Off Peak ODTC on paper tickets so
it doesn't seem a leap of technology to accept Off Peak ODTC on Oyster if
treated in much the same way as a period travelcard.

I suspect the issue is that for sensible implementation it would indeed have
to occupy one of the slots for a period travelcard (there are two I believe)
and that could cause confusion for those who prefer to buy multiple ODTC in
advance. Also if purchasing online you'd have to go through a tube station
gate to get it loaded which is probably extra inconvenient for one day
travelcard users. I doubt capping was expected to be so delayed either so
it was really only an issue for National Rail ODTC users.

Neil Williams wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 11 Feb 2005:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:50:58 +0000, k wrote:

...and so much more useful! Why *can't* you load a ODTC onto oyster?
Surely its not technically difficult?

Because it wouldn't be a true ODTC, because you couldn't use it on
National Rail.

Why not, since you can use a period Travelcard on national rail, even if
this is on your Oyster? The suburban service ticket-checkers all have
Oyster readers for just this reason, and those stations within the
network that are gated have touch-in/out pads.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:48:09 +0000 (UTC), David Jackman
wrote:

"Graham J" wrote in
:


Would there be any point in loading a one day Travelcard (say zones
1-4) onto an Oyster card on a day when I need it, or might I just as
well carry on buying paper tickets?

You can't actually load a one day travelcard onto an Oyster. Although
I'd find it useful myself I can see why they never bothered with it as
it is just as easy to hand you a paper ticket.

Is this one of the things that will change on Feb 27th? Or does capping
limit pre-pay deductions to the cost of a travelcard but not actually
create a travelcard (and thus not valid on national rail unless you could
use pre-pay for the journey you are making)?

...

It is stated in the TfL Board agenda papers for 9/2/05 that the DfT have
decreed that TfL zonal fares will apply to all NR journeys within the
zonal area by 2007. Implementation will be on a TOC by TOC basis
between now and 2007. Pre-pay will be part of the roll out of this
policy.

...

Really?? What happens to our CDRs that are substantially cheaper during
off-peak periods during the daytime?

What about rail-only season tickets? I don't want to buy a Travelcard at an
inflated price to pay for the Underground and buses that I never use...

On the trains I use, I see about half of the people passing through the
ticket barriers where I am (Bexley station) have grey NR season tickets, not
Travelcards.

Rich

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 23:48:10 -0000, "Graham J"
wrote:


Having seen some of the training materials today and looked through the
wide range of examples of how it will work your statement is broadly
correct.

Hopefully the Tramlink problem has been solved. At the moment they expect
you to touch in before every leg of a tram journey on Oyster even though the
paper ticket allows you to change trams.

I don't know if this has changed but I imagine that there is something
built in to the system that requires the additional validation to
recognise the second leg as all one journey rather than two which the
system might do if you exceed a time limit. I'm just guessing here so
don't hold me to it or write lots of challenging follow up questions!

It is stated in the TfL Board agenda papers for 9/2/05 that the DfT have
decreed that TfL zonal fares will apply to all NR journeys within the
zonal area by 2007. Implementation will be on a TOC by TOC basis
between now and 2007. Pre-pay will be part of the roll out of this
policy.

Interesting. Could have sworn it was only today I was reading how the TOCs
weren't playing ball. I would have thought since it was clear that it was
going to happen anyway sooner or later that the TOCs might have been better
off getting involved as soon as they could. Better to be seen to be a
willing and enthusiastic partner if you want influence.

I agree with your final remark but my experience of trying to drag ATOC
to the table in the early days of developing Prestige says that the
opposite is true. Apart from one or two more focused TOCs with long
franchise terms the lack of interest was palpable. All they were worried
about was cost and revenue - will LUL pay all their costs and will LUL
cover any and all revenue loss. Stuff whether it would bring business
benefits like reduced fraud, usage information, revenue growth from
making travel more convenient. It was very, very difficult.

I think the fact that the SRA is going and DfT is taking over provides
the context for this. Ken won the election for Labour, he wants more
influence over transport and to make Oyster work for him as part of
making transport in London more effective. Part of the payback is DfT
instructing the TOCs to participate - there appears to be a form of
revenue sharing arrangement which will deal with TOC concerns over
revenue losses as fares will, in part, be cut for a reasonable
proportion of passengers who will be able to take advantage of pre-pay
and capping once the system gets expanded.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 07:34:59 -0000, "TKD" wrote:

Paul - This question to the mayor from the GLA site states that the
Zone1-6 off peak cap will be £5.70 instead of the £6.00 travelcard price.

http://mqt.london.gov.uk//public/question.do?id=9496

Has this exception been implemented as promised?

Yes it has - that specific value for Z1-6 is highlighted in several of
the worked examples in the training material.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

I think the fact that the SRA is going and DfT is taking over provides
the context for this. Ken won the election for Labour, he wants more
influence over transport and to make Oyster work for him as part of
making transport in London more effective. Part of the payback is DfT
instructing the TOCs to participate - there appears to be a form of
revenue sharing arrangement which will deal with TOC concerns over
revenue losses as fares will, in part, be cut for a reasonable
proportion of passengers who will be able to take advantage of pre-pay
and capping once the system gets expanded.

How about a revenue sharing arrangement for the reasonable proportion of
customers who will have to pay more for their journeys now?

Dave

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 12:01:23 -0000, "Rich Mallard"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
It is stated in the TfL Board agenda papers for 9/2/05 that the DfT have
decreed that TfL zonal fares will apply to all NR journeys within the
zonal area by 2007. Implementation will be on a TOC by TOC basis
between now and 2007. Pre-pay will be part of the roll out of this
policy.

...

Really?? What happens to our CDRs that are substantially cheaper during
off-peak periods during the daytime?

Don't know - I was referencing a very short item in the TfL documents.
There is no detail about how it will be implemented.

What about rail-only season tickets? I don't want to buy a Travelcard at an
inflated price to pay for the Underground and buses that I never use...

Who said you would have to buy a travelcard? Again there is no detail
but I would be genuinely surprised to see NR point to point tickets
disappear. How they are priced relative to everything else will be
interesting but I don't see that Travelcard prices would fall in price
to be able to replace point to points. The revenue loss to TfL would be
too great and there is nothing to suggest that huge additional subsidies
are to be provided to deal with this issue - the adoption of LUL fares
on NR and pre-pay has always been costed at fairly low levels in the TfL
business plan documentation that I've read.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Ian F." typed


"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

However, without more detail of the specific journeys (especially how
you get from Zone 3 to Central London), it is impossible to say whether
or not you would be better off.

I usually buy a Z1-4 off peak travelcard and travel into central London
using the tube, although sometimes I go overground to Victoria and take a
bus, or a tube from there - in Balham we have tube and overground and it's
usually quicker to go by train to Victoria than by tube to Victoria. I
travel into Z1, on average, twice a week. Other times, I might buy a Z2-6
off-peak travelcard and use it locally, sometimes to go to Croydon,
sometimes to go via Clapham Junction to Richmond or Kingston or elsewhere.
Other times, I might just use local buses. The majority of the travel is
off-peak, although occasionally I have to go into the West End early
morning.

If you could give me some advice, it would be great - I've been travelling
in London all my life (I'm 54), but the Oyster situation has me baffled!

Ian


It strikes me you might save money with Oyster PrePay, especially if you
travel at weekends or after 7pm, when the fares are much lower. You
really have to think ahead for each days travel, using the fares
leaflet, and then work out what will be cheapest. SORRY!

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.