Aidan Stanger wrote:
Barry Salter wrote:


On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:15:31 +1030, (Aidan Stanger)
wrote:


The GOBLIN has a far greater potential as a light rail route.

And what would you propose doing with the substantial freight traffic
along the route should such a conversion come to fruition?


(snip NLL plan)

Speaking of light rail, and returning to the Greenford branch, perhaps
it would be useful to convert the Greenford branch to tram and connect
it to the West London Tram at West Ealing Broadway (passing over or
under the GWML from Drayton Green to reach Eccleston Road, perhaps).
Services could run from Greenford to both Shepherd's Bush via Ealing and
Uxbridge via Southall, providing some orbital links.

At Greenford, it might be useful to serve the industrial estates around
the canal, or the business estates at Perivale. From Greenford, a
tramline might connect up to Harrow (providing excellent orbital links
from radial stations at Harrow-on-the-Hill, South Harrow or improved
Chiltern services at Northolt Park), or even from Perivale via Alperton
and the canalside industrial areas to Wembley and/or Park Royal -
perhaps even onwards to Willesden Junction.

A whole host of potentially useful semi-orbital services could then feed
into the radial ones along the West London Tram route, and would also
provide one-change access from the M4 corridor via Crossrail (changing
at Hanwell) to Park Royal.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Colin McKenzie wrote in message ...
Adrian Auer-Hudson wrote:

Operationally converting the [Greenford] branch to be a Central
Line extension makes sense. The question is: Would the
construction costs be justified?

And which end do you connect it at?

Though a loop at both ends has its attractions from an aesthetic point
of view!

If tube tunnels were dug between West Ealing and just east of Ealing
Broadway, it would free up surface capacity at Ealing Broadway station
for the desperately-needed rebuilding.

There are endless options, and I think a wholesale reorganisation of
services might be beneficial, because
- the area needs north-south rail services
- the line parallel to the Central line is ridiculously under-used
- passengers beyond Northolt are not best served by an all-stations
service
- The Ealing Broadway Central Line branch will lose most of its
passengers to Crossrail

I'm thinking maybe a much enhanced Chiltern service from the Ruislips,
and new Central Line branches closer in: West Ealing via Castlebar
Park, and maybe something heading north into Park Royal.

Colin McKenzie

Hi Colin,

My thinking was in favor of a connection at the southern end of the
Greenford Branch. The Central Line would run in sub-surface tunnels
much as they do under the former GE lines at the Central Line's
eastern end.

However, I have to say I like your way of looking at this. The
underutilized capacity on the mainline around Northolt is
un-believable. Some Central line development in this area would surely
be useful.

Adrian.

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Speaking of light rail, and returning to the Greenford
branch, perhaps it would be useful to convert the
Greenford branch to tram and connect it to the
West London Tram at West Ealing Broadway

This sort of thing was investigated and rejected by the tram project team.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

snip

But what would replace the Greenford triangle, to allow HSTs to reverse
formation after interesting diversions in the West Country?

TheOneKEA wrote:
snip

But what would replace the Greenford triangle, to allow HSTs to reverse
formation after interesting diversions in the West Country?

I'm sure some alternative could be found. A giant turntable, perhaps...
or setting up some sort of circuit around the Willesden railway lands.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

John Rowland wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Speaking of light rail, and returning to the Greenford
branch, perhaps it would be useful to convert the
Greenford branch to tram and connect it to the
West London Tram at West Ealing Broadway


This sort of thing was investigated and rejected by the tram project team.

Any idea why?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On 16 Feb 2005 13:43:03 -0800, TheOneKEA wrote:

But what would replace the Greenford triangle, to allow HSTs to reverse
formation after interesting diversions in the West Country?

Hammersmith & City to Aldgate East, to Tower Hill, to Paddington )

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9781404.html
(The (old) train in the Drain - S57S at Bank in 1995)

Colin McKenzie wrote:

If tube tunnels were dug between West Ealing and just east of
Ealing Broadway, it would free up surface capacity at Ealing
Broadway station for the desperately-needed rebuilding.

Indeed. Ealing Broadway is an excellent example of the brutalist
architectural paradigm that gave us London Euston...


There are endless options, and I think a wholesale reorganisation
of services might be beneficial, because
- the area needs north-south rail services

Roll on the Park Royal interchange...

- the line parallel to the Central line is ridiculously under-used

Because there's no capacity at Paddington. Considering that 14tph is
going to terminate at Paddington, perhaps it would be sensible to see
if electrifying Old Oak West - North Acton - Park Royal and running
6tph up there to interchange with the Picc/Central at PR might be
useful.

It would probably empty North Acton to PR and Ealing Common to PR, but
the branches beyond there would get much busier; if the buses could be
rejigged, the effects could get even better.

- passengers beyond Northolt are not best served by an all-stations
service

There's always the option of electrifying all the way to West Ruislip
and interchanging with Chiltern - though that would probably decimate
the Ruislip branch of the Central.

A better option would be to find a spare bit of brownfield land next to
the old GW line and building a largish carpark on it, with good access
from the A40. Then you could extend more tph from Paddington to the new
parkway station and abstract traffic off of the A40.

Plus there's also the fact that Greenford still has an NR service to
Paddington; if that does get cut back to West Ealing, adding a
mini-curve to the Greenford triangle and running some of that wasted
tph up _there_ could be investigated as well.

TheOneKEA wrote:
Colin McKenzie wrote:

If tube tunnels were dug between West Ealing and just east of
Ealing Broadway, it would free up surface capacity at Ealing
Broadway station for the desperately-needed rebuilding.

Indeed. Ealing Broadway is an excellent example of the brutalist
architectural paradigm that gave us London Euston...

There are endless options, and I think a wholesale reorganisation
of services might be beneficial, because
- the area needs north-south rail services

Roll on the Park Royal interchange...

Does anyone have news about that? I don't even have an estimated
completion date.

- the line parallel to the Central line is ridiculously under-used

Because there's no capacity at Paddington. Considering that 14tph is
going to terminate at Paddington, perhaps it would be sensible to see
if electrifying Old Oak West - North Acton - Park Royal and running
6tph up there to interchange with the Picc/Central at PR might be
useful.

It would probably empty North Acton to PR and Ealing Common to PR, but
the branches beyond there would get much busier; if the buses could be
rejigged, the effects could get even better.

A Park Royal bus/train/tube interchange with some sort of intermediate
mode link to Willesden Junction and to Ealing to join the West London
Tram. In any case, there should be high quality links to a Crossrail
station to attract people from the west who might otherwise drive. Acton
Main Line would be a good candidate.

- passengers beyond Northolt are not best served by an all-stations
service


There's always the option of electrifying all the way to West Ruislip
and interchanging with Chiltern - though that would probably decimate
the Ruislip branch of the Central.

A better option would be to find a spare bit of brownfield land next to
the old GW line and building a largish carpark on it, with good access
from the A40. Then you could extend more tph from Paddington to the new
parkway station and abstract traffic off of the A40.

Ooh, the old park-and-ride problem. I think you'd actually generate
quite a bit of traffic on the A40 to the west as people switch from the
current stations to the parkway one. A parkway station would be better
off further out.

Plus there's also the fact that Greenford still has an NR service to
Paddington; if that does get cut back to West Ealing, adding a
mini-curve to the Greenford triangle and running some of that wasted
tph up _there_ could be investigated as well.

Presumably there isn't the traffic for it, otherwise they would have
suggested it.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

This is interesting. But let me add a few points.

1. Turning crossrail trains back @ Paddington is just crazy when there
is a lack of capacity in the mainline station.

2. Better for now just to electrify one mainline, i.e. Paddington to
Maidenhead.

3. We are stuck with the Central Line to West Ruislip because of the
depot.

So, better drop the Central Line into a tunnel for the Ealing Broadway
to West Ealing Stretch. Have the Central Line take over the Greenford
Loop.

Then extend the instead of turning back crossrail trains at Paddington,
reverse them from new platforms at Ealing. These platforms would
replace the Central Line tube platforms.

Then, use some of the freed-up terminal space at Paddington to for some
Chiltern trains from Birmingham.

Adrian.