Tube so expensive
 

People are numb about it. It's ridiculously expensive.

Tube so expensive
 

Well Im 15 and 2 pounds to go any where over London sounds find to me
including buses.
But for Adults i do understand.
10.50 For a peak time travelcard for London is stupid.
But if you think about it, the price of petrol because of Labours tax
hike its cheaper anyway.
James

Tube so expensive
 

EorJames wrote:
Well Im 15 and 2 pounds to go any where over London sounds find to me
including buses.
But for Adults i do understand.
10.50 For a peak time travelcard for London is stupid.
But if you think about it, the price of petrol because of Labours tax
hike its cheaper anyway.

If you're going to try and slag someone off do make an effort to get your
facts right first of all. The price of motoring, icluding fuel, has reduced
since Labour was voted into power. It was the Tories who introduced the Fuel
Tax Escalator to push the price up faster than inflation.

Tube so expensive
 

Yes But Labour have put the Taxes up.
But you seem to think im the tories side as well.
Well i dont support any side.
But still taxes have gone up.
Luckly in todays budget petrol hasnt gone up until september.
I dont think Gordon brown would dare.
83p a litre on average is rediculous.
Also on average about 23p of that goes to the company, the rest to the
gov.
And if you think about it if Labour are softer on the Petrol prices,
why have they carryed on putting over the top tax on petrol.
The tube is cheaper still but if you love your car use your car.
James
P.S The price of motoring has not gone down unless you mean by Oil
prices.

Tube so expensive
 

EorJames wrote:
Yes But Labour have put the Taxes up.
But you seem to think im the tories side as well.
Well i dont support any side.
But still taxes have gone up.
Luckly in todays budget petrol hasnt gone up until september.
I dont think Gordon brown would dare.
83p a litre on average is rediculous.
Also on average about 23p of that goes to the company, the rest to the
gov.
And if you think about it if Labour are softer on the Petrol prices,
why have they carryed on putting over the top tax on petrol.
The tube is cheaper still but if you love your car use your car.
James
P.S The price of motoring has not gone down unless you mean by Oil
prices.

Actually, the real cost of motoring *has* gone down, hence (partly) the
growth in the number and length of car journeys.

How would cutting car taxes benefit the country? More congestion, more
pollution and less tax revenue to spend on public services?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Tube so expensive
 

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

EorJames wrote:

The price of motoring has not gone down unless you mean by Oil prices.

Actually, the real cost of motoring *has* gone down, hence (partly) the
growth in the number and length of car journeys.

I didn't realise that! How the hell did that happen?

tom

--
The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

Tube so expensive
 

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...


Actually, the real cost of motoring *has* gone down, hence (partly) the
growth in the number and length of car journeys.


Despite the statistics (I've heard this before) I don't believe it. Having
said that, it's not a party political thing as both the main parties are as
bad as each other.

How would cutting car taxes benefit the country? More congestion, more
pollution and less tax revenue to spend on public services?


Depends on the taxes. VED is fundamentally unfair and tends to increase
congestion (if you've already paid it then why not take the car?). Petrol
taxes seem a much fairer option but only instead of VED not as well.

Tube so expensive
 

Tom Anderson wrote:

Actually, the real cost of motoring *has* gone down, hence (partly)
the
growth in the number and length of car journeys.

I didn't realise that! How the hell did that happen?

According to:

http://www.barrydoe.co.uk/2004.pdf

Between 1970 and 2004:

Inflation has gone up 10 times
Price of petrol has gone up 11 times
Average earnings has gone up 19 times

So, the price of petrol has, in real terms, been virtually static,
whereas average earnings have gone up almost twice as much as the price
of petrol.

Therefore, combined with the huge improvement in vehicle efficiency,
the average person can 'afford' to travel a lot more by car in 2004
compared with 1970.

Tube so expensive
 

On 16 Mar 2005 08:30:10 -0800, "EorJames"
wrote:

Well Im 15 and 2 pounds to go any where over London sounds find to me
including buses.
But for Adults i do understand.
10.50 For a peak time travelcard for London is stupid.
But if you think about it, the price of petrol because of Labours tax
hike its cheaper anyway.
James

Looks like Labour's also falling down on education.

Tube so expensive
 

"Richard Adamfi" wrote in message
ups.com...

Tom Anderson wrote:

Actually, the real cost of motoring *has* gone down, hence (partly)
the
growth in the number and length of car journeys.

I didn't realise that! How the hell did that happen?

According to:

http://www.barrydoe.co.uk/2004.pdf

Between 1970 and 2004:

Inflation has gone up 10 times
Price of petrol has gone up 11 times
Average earnings has gone up 19 times

So, the price of petrol has, in real terms, been virtually static,
whereas average earnings have gone up almost twice as much as the price
of petrol.

Therefore, combined with the huge improvement in vehicle efficiency,
the average person can 'afford' to travel a lot more by car in 2004
compared with 1970.


Add in to that the reducing cost of cars and motoring continues to get
cheaper while public transport continues to get more expensive.

Tube so expensive
 

On 16 Mar 2005, Richard Adamfi wrote:


Tom Anderson wrote:

Actually, the real cost of motoring *has* gone down, hence (partly)
the growth in the number and length of car journeys.

I didn't realise that! How the hell did that happen?

According to:

http://www.barrydoe.co.uk/2004.pdf

Between 1970 and 2004:

Inflation has gone up 10 times
Price of petrol has gone up 11 times
Average earnings has gone up 19 times

So, the price of petrol has, in real terms, been virtually static,
whereas average earnings have gone up almost twice as much as the price
of petrol.

Therefore, combined with the huge improvement in vehicle efficiency,
the average person can 'afford' to travel a lot more by car in 2004
compared with 1970.

Ah, i see. I think that means the real cost of motoring has stayed the
same, whereas real incomes have gone up. Different ways of seeing it, i
suppose. Coupled with the much higher rise in public transport prices, it
certainly means it's got cheaper relative to public transport, which is
what matters.

tom

--
I know you wanna try and get away, but it's the hardest thing you'll ever know

Tube so expensive
 

Tom Anderson wrote:
On 16 Mar 2005, Richard Adamfi wrote:


Tom Anderson wrote:


Actually, the real cost of motoring *has* gone down, hence (partly)
the growth in the number and length of car journeys.

I didn't realise that! How the hell did that happen?

According to:

http://www.barrydoe.co.uk/2004.pdf

Between 1970 and 2004:

Inflation has gone up 10 times
Price of petrol has gone up 11 times
Average earnings has gone up 19 times

So, the price of petrol has, in real terms, been virtually static,
whereas average earnings have gone up almost twice as much as the price
of petrol.

Therefore, combined with the huge improvement in vehicle efficiency,
the average person can 'afford' to travel a lot more by car in 2004
compared with 1970.


Ah, i see. I think that means the real cost of motoring has stayed the
same, whereas real incomes have gone up. Different ways of seeing it, i
suppose. Coupled with the much higher rise in public transport prices, it
certainly means it's got cheaper relative to public transport, which is
what matters.

I'm still certain that the cost of motoring *in real terms* has
decreased. Unfortunately the useful graph I saw was in a book borrowed
from the library.

A quick Google shows this though:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3776913.stm

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Tube so expensive
 

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:45:51 -0600, "
wrote:

People are numb about it. It's ridiculously expensive.



Don't feed the trolls...

Tube so expensive
 

Brimstone wrote:
EorJames wrote:

Well Im 15 and 2 pounds to go any where over London sounds find to me
including buses.
But for Adults i do understand.
10.50 For a peak time travelcard for London is stupid.
But if you think about it, the price of petrol because of Labours tax
hike its cheaper anyway.


If you're going to try and slag someone off do make an effort to get your
facts right first of all. The price of motoring, icluding fuel, has reduced
since Labour was voted into power.

Certainly not fuel tax.

It was the Tories who introduced the Fuel
Tax Escalator to push the price up faster than inflation.

And the point of an escalator is that when you get to the top, you get
off... Gordon Brown has continued to put up fuel tax (although cunningly
never actually in the Budget in recent years.)

Tube so expensive
 

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, James Farrar wrote:

Brimstone wrote:
EorJames wrote:

But if you think about it, the price of petrol because of Labours tax
hike its cheaper anyway.

It was the Tories who introduced the Fuel
Tax Escalator to push the price up faster than inflation.

And the point of an escalator is that when you get to the top, you get
off... Gordon Brown has continued to put up fuel tax (although cunningly
never actually in the Budget in recent years.)

Then we clearly haven't reached the top yet.

NEXT!

tom

--
Also, a 'dark future where there is only war!' ... have you seen the news lately? -- applez

Tube so expensive
 

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005, James Farrar wrote:


Brimstone wrote:

EorJames wrote:


But if you think about it, the price of petrol because of Labours tax
hike its cheaper anyway.

It was the Tories who introduced the Fuel
Tax Escalator to push the price up faster than inflation.

And the point of an escalator is that when you get to the top, you get
off... Gordon Brown has continued to put up fuel tax (although cunningly
never actually in the Budget in recent years.)


Then we clearly haven't reached the top yet.

We're past the top of the FTE as originally envisaged. Next.

Tube so expensive
 

On 16 Mar 2005 09:32:26 -0800, "EorJames"
said:

Yes But Labour have put the Taxes up.
But you seem to think im the tories side as well.
Well i dont support any side.
But still taxes have gone up.
Luckly in todays budget petrol hasnt gone up until september.
I dont think Gordon brown would dare.
83p a litre on average is rediculous.

I suggest.
You learn to.
WRITE properly in English.
before jabbering.
About politics.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

Tube so expensive
 

"David Cantrell" wrote in message
...
On 16 Mar 2005 09:32:26 -0800, "EorJames"
said:

Luckly in todays budget petrol hasnt gone up until september.

I suggest.
You learn to.
WRITE properly in English.
before jabbering.
About politics.

A cheap shot, considering that he did not vote for the government
responsible for his education, whereas we did. Most people of his generation
have terrible English.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Tube so expensive
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"David Cantrell" wrote in message
...
On 16 Mar 2005 09:32:26 -0800, "EorJames"
said:

Luckly in todays budget petrol hasnt gone up until september.

I suggest.
You learn to.
WRITE properly in English.
before jabbering.
About politics.

A cheap shot, considering that he did not vote for the government
responsible for his education, whereas we did. Most people of his
generation
have terrible English.


Is there anything to prevent him making an effort to improve his English
without the aid of teachers?

Tube so expensive
 

David Cantrell wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 25 Mar 2005:

On 16 Mar 2005 09:32:26 -0800, "EorJames"
said:

Yes But Labour have put the Taxes up.
But you seem to think im the tories side as well.
Well i dont support any side.
But still taxes have gone up.
Luckly in todays budget petrol hasnt gone up until september.
I dont think Gordon brown would dare.
83p a litre on average is rediculous.

I suggest.
You learn to.
WRITE properly in English.
before jabbering.
About politics.

Isn't he proof that New Labour's education policy hasn't worked very
well.... at least, not in his case!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 20 March 2005

Tube so expensive
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
David Cantrell wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 25 Mar 2005:

On 16 Mar 2005 09:32:26 -0800, "EorJames"
said:

Yes But Labour have put the Taxes up.
But you seem to think im the tories side as well.
Well i dont support any side.
But still taxes have gone up.
Luckly in todays budget petrol hasnt gone up until september.
I dont think Gordon brown would dare.
83p a litre on average is rediculous.

I suggest.
You learn to.
WRITE properly in English.
before jabbering.
About politics.

Isn't he proof that New Labour's education policy hasn't worked very
well.... at least, not in his case!

Be fair, it's at least as good as the Tories.

Tube so expensive
 

In message , Brimstone
writes
Is there anything to prevent him making an effort to improve his
English without the aid of teachers?
Seen on a bus in Bristol, "If you can read this, thank a teacher."
--
Clive.

Tube so expensive
 

In message , Mrs Redboots
writes
Isn't he proof that New Labour's education policy hasn't worked very
well.... at least, not in his case!
--
It depends on his age.
--
Clive.

Tube so expensive
 

Christine. wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 25 Mar 2005:

In message , Mrs
Redboots writes
Isn't he proof that New Labour's education policy hasn't worked very
well.... at least, not in his case!
--
It depends on his age.

Didn't he say he was 15? In which case he'd have been educated almost
completely under the present government.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 20 March 2005

Tube so expensive
 

Mrs Redboots wrote:
Christine. wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 25 Mar 2005:

In message , Mrs
Redboots writes
Isn't he proof that New Labour's education policy hasn't worked very
well.... at least, not in his case!
--
It depends on his age.

Didn't he say he was 15? In which case he'd have been educated almost
completely under the present government.

Errrrmmmm, I'm not one to pick holes (most of the time) but weren't you
suggesting that he *hadn't* been educated?

Tube so expensive
 

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
If you're going to try and slag someone off do make an effort to get your
facts right first of all. The price of motoring, icluding fuel, has
reduced since Labour was voted into power. It was the Tories who
introduced the Fuel Tax Escalator to push the price up faster than
inflation.

I don't have any facts as to whether the cost of motoring has come down, but
I do know that under the Conservatives it was possible to buy unleaded
petrol at 41.9p per litre and yesterday I paid 83.9p. How does that equate
to a fall in fuel prices under Labour? Also, one now has to pay £5 to enter
central London during the day. Okay, I accept you can't directly blame that
on Tony, and AFAIAC I personally benefit from the CC, but we wouldn't have a
CC today had the Conservatives been returned to government in 1997.

Tube so expensive
 

Brimstone wrote:
Mrs Redboots wrote:
Christine. wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 25 Mar 2005:

In message , Mrs
Redboots writes
Isn't he proof that New Labour's education policy hasn't worked
very well.... at least, not in his case!
--
It depends on his age.

Didn't he say he was 15? In which case he'd have been educated
almost completely under the present government.

Errrrmmmm, I'm not one to pick holes (most of the time) but weren't
you suggesting that he *hadn't* been educated?

I think she was implying that he *had* been educated, but only for 2
years under the Tories. Then it all went downhill under Labour
apparently. I wonder how she explains why so many people in their 20s
also can't write decent English.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Tube so expensive
 

David Splett wrote:
"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
If you're going to try and slag someone off do make an effort to get
your facts right first of all. The price of motoring, icluding fuel,
has reduced since Labour was voted into power. It was the Tories who
introduced the Fuel Tax Escalator to push the price up faster than
inflation.

I don't have any facts as to whether the cost of motoring has come
down, but I do know that under the Conservatives it was possible to
buy unleaded petrol at 41.9p per litre and yesterday I paid 83.9p.
How does that equate to a fall in fuel prices under Labour? Also,
one now has to pay £5 to enter central London during the day. Okay, I
accept you can't directly blame that on Tony, and AFAIAC I personally
benefit from the CC, but we wouldn't have a CC today had the
Conservatives been returned to government in 1997.

By how much has your income gone up over the same period?

Tube so expensive
 

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
By how much has your income gone up over the same period?

How does that affect the cost of motoring? If my disposable income had
doubled during the time concerned, I might have chosen to spend that extra
money on other things besides motoring. Therefore I am still worse off than
if fuel had remained at early-1990s prices.

Tube so expensive
 

David Splett wrote:
"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
By how much has your income gone up over the same period?

How does that affect the cost of motoring?

It means that although the purchase price of (say) a litre of petrol has
gone up it represents less as a percentage of your income (assuming no
changes other than inflation). Therefore the price of petrol has decreased.

If my disposable income had
doubled during the time concerned, I might have chosen to spend that
extra money on other things besides motoring. Therefore I am still
worse off than if fuel had remained at early-1990s prices.

Wrong, because petrol has increased at a slower rate than income therefore
people still have more to do with as they wish than at any point in the
history of motoring. Why? Because the cost of motoring has decreased over
the last 100 plus years.

Tube so expensive
 

"Christine." wrote in message
...

Seen on a bus in Bristol, "If you can read this, thank a teacher."

"If you're reading this in English, thank a soldier."

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Tube so expensive
 

Brimstone wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 25 Mar 2005:

Mrs Redboots wrote:
Christine. wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 25 Mar 2005:

In message , Mrs
Redboots writes
Isn't he proof that New Labour's education policy hasn't worked very
well.... at least, not in his case!
--
It depends on his age.

Didn't he say he was 15? In which case he'd have been educated almost
completely under the present government.

Errrrmmmm, I'm not one to pick holes (most of the time) but weren't you
suggesting that he *hadn't* been educated?


No, I was suggesting that the education policy of the present
Government, if this young man is a typical example of the product,
hasn't worked very well.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 20 March 2005

Tube so expensive
 

Richard J. wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 25 Mar 2005:

I think she was implying that he *had* been educated, but only for 2
years under the Tories. Then it all went downhill under Labour
apparently. I wonder how she explains why so many people in their 20s
also can't write decent English.

Can't they? My daughter, in her mid-20s, writes superb English... and I
don't know many others. Most of the posters on here may or may not be
older; the vast majority of them make very few mistakes in either
spelling or grammar.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 20 March 2005

Tube so expensive
 

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
No, I was suggesting that the education policy of the present
Government, if this young man is a typical example of the product,
hasn't worked very well.

How do you know he doesn't attend a private school?

Tube so expensive
 

David Splett wrote:
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...

No, I was suggesting that the education policy of the present
Government, if this young man is a typical example of the product,
hasn't worked very well.


How do you know he doesn't attend a private school?

Because unlike state schools, private schools actually bother to correct
poor spelling and grammar.