The gates at London Bridge on the National Rail platforms will let you
through with only prepay on an oystercard, but will not deduct any
fare or resolve the jounry. The validators on platforms 5/6 must be
used even if you have already touched in or out there.

"Matthew" wrote in message
...
The gates at London Bridge on the National Rail platforms will let you
through with only prepay on an oystercard, but will not deduct any
fare or resolve the jounry. The validators on platforms 5/6 must be
used even if you have already touched in or out there.

That could be useful to know, if only to avoid putting my season ticket
through the gates.

Does anyone know the position with the gates/validators at Farringdon? A
typical scenario is an occasional journey Brighton to Moorgate and return:

1. I use my National Rail season which is valid as far as City Thameslink.
2. At Farringdon I validate the prepay card on the platform (does it matter
which platform I do this on?) and then
3. Change to the Underground for Moorgate.
4. At Moorgate I the prepay card lets me out through the gates.

As far as I can see this all works as I would have expected, in both
directions. HOWEVER, I once found that the delays on the underground at
Farringdon were going to be excessive, & thus decided to leave the station
and walk - but after I had validated the prepay card. The oystercard refused
to let me through the ticket gates ...

D A Stocks

.. .
The gates at London Bridge on the National Rail platforms will let you
through with only prepay on an oystercard, but will not deduct any
fare or resolve the journey. The validators on platforms 5/6 must be
used even if you have already touched in or out there.

That could be useful to know, if only to avoid putting my season ticket
through the gates.

Frequent use may well be monitored to stop "dumb-belling".

Does anyone know the position with the gates/validators at Farringdon? A
typical scenario is an occasional journey Brighton to Moorgate and return:

1. I use my National Rail season which is valid as far as City Thameslink.

You are travelling without a valid ticket between City Thameslink and
Farringdon. To combine a paper National Rail ticket and Oyster Prepay
you must touch in where your paper ticket ends, at City Thameslink.

2. At Farringdon I validate the prepay card on the platform (does it matter
which platform I do this on?) and then
3. Change to the Underground for Moorgate.
4. At Moorgate I the prepay card lets me out through the gates.

As far as I can see this all works as I would have expected, in both
directions. HOWEVER, I once found that the delays on the underground at
Farringdon were going to be excessive, & thus decided to leave the station
and walk - but after I had validated the prepay card. The oystercard refused
to let me through the ticket gates ...

Prepay requires a touch in and out, so your usual journey is valid
between Farringdon & Moorgate. Just touching out at Farringdon would
lead to an unresolved journey.

Matthew wrote:
.. .
The gates at London Bridge on the National Rail platforms will let
you
through with only prepay on an oystercard, but will not deduct any
fare or resolve the journey. The validators on platforms 5/6 must
be
used even if you have already touched in or out there.

That could be useful to know, if only to avoid putting my season
ticket
through the gates.

Frequent use may well be monitored to stop "dumb-belling".

What does 'dumb-belling' mean?

Does anyone know the position with the gates/validators at
Farringdon? A
typical scenario is an occasional journey Brighton to Moorgate and
return:

1. I use my National Rail season which is valid as far as City
Thameslink.

You are travelling without a valid ticket between City Thameslink and
Farringdon. To combine a paper National Rail ticket and Oyster Prepay
you must touch in where your paper ticket ends, at City Thameslink.

2. At Farringdon I validate the prepay card on the platform (does it
matter
which platform I do this on?) and then
3. Change to the Underground for Moorgate.
4. At Moorgate I the prepay card lets me out through the gates.

Prepay requires a touch in and out, so your usual journey is valid
between Farringdon & Moorgate. Just touching out at Farringdon would
lead to an unresolved journey.

Fascinating. So you'd have to get out at CT, go up to the ticket hall
to touch in, then come back down again and get on another train for the
10 second journey to Farringdon?

In that case I suppose the Farringdon validators are actually intended
for people changing *onto* Thameslink, having used Prepay to get them
there on the Tube (since otherwise you would be leaving the Tube
without passing through a gateline). In fact I can't think of any way
they could be used in the opposite direction (though I suppose someone
might *theoretically* have e.g. a Brighton - Farringdon LU season...)

In a way it's a shame, because the type of journey the OP mentioned
would be extremely useful for me (given that Tube interchange at
Elephant & Castle is such a faff!) Perhaps they should install
validators on the trains...

On a related note, has anyone ever tried using Prepay on the Kentish
Town - E&C section of Thameslink? If so, were you charged Tube fares
for doing so?

Rupert Candy wrote:
Matthew wrote:

(snip)
Does anyone know the position with the gates/validators at Farringdon? A
typical scenario is an occasional journey Brighton to Moorgate and return:

1. I use my National Rail season which is valid as far as City Thameslink.

You are travelling without a valid ticket between City Thameslink and
Farringdon. To combine a paper National Rail ticket and Oyster Prepay
you must touch in where your paper ticket ends, at City Thameslink.


2. At Farringdon I validate the prepay card on the platform (does it matter
which platform I do this on?) and then
3. Change to the Underground for Moorgate.
4. At Moorgate I the prepay card lets me out through the gates.

Prepay requires a touch in and out, so your usual journey is valid
between Farringdon & Moorgate. Just touching out at Farringdon would
lead to an unresolved journey.


Fascinating. So you'd have to get out at CT, go up to the ticket hall
to touch in, then come back down again and get on another train for the
10 second journey to Farringdon?

In this case, yes.

In that case I suppose the Farringdon validators are actually intended
for people changing *onto* Thameslink, having used Prepay to get them
there on the Tube (since otherwise you would be leaving the Tube
without passing through a gateline). In fact I can't think of any way
they could be used in the opposite direction (though I suppose someone
might *theoretically* have e.g. a Brighton - Farringdon LU season...)

Not really... you could have any National Rail ticket valid to
Farringdon (e.g. a single from Luton to Farringdon) and then you would
touch in on the validators with an Oyster in order to continue your
journey on the Tube (e.g. to Whitechapel).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:
In that case I suppose the Farringdon validators are actually
intended
for people changing *onto* Thameslink, having used Prepay to get
them
there on the Tube (since otherwise you would be leaving the Tube
without passing through a gateline). In fact I can't think of any
way
they could be used in the opposite direction (though I suppose
someone
might *theoretically* have e.g. a Brighton - Farringdon LU
season...)

Not really... you could have any National Rail ticket valid to
Farringdon (e.g. a single from Luton to Farringdon) and then you
would
touch in on the validators with an Oyster in order to continue your
journey on the Tube (e.g. to Whitechapel).

I suppose so, but I wonder how many people in e.g. Luton realise that
if they buy a ticket to "London" it won't be valid at Farringdon, so
they have to buy a ticket to "Farringdon LU"? In other words, how many
people would *correctly* use the validators for the journey you
describe? (Obviously a rhetorical question.)

IMHO the status of Farringdon as a non-London Terminal is a ridiculous
anomaly that catches out large numbers of people who believe themselves
to be holding a valid ticket. It's ridiculous that with my particular
season ticket I can get off the train at City Thameslink or KXT (a good
deal further on than Farringdon and no more of a "terminal" under
non-blockade circumstances), but if I dare to get off at the station
between them I risk a £10 penalty fare. Grr.

IMHO the status of Farringdon as a non-London Terminal is a ridiculous
anomaly that catches out large numbers of people who believe themselves
to be holding a valid ticket. It's ridiculous that with my particular
season ticket I can get off the train at City Thameslink or KXT (a good
deal further on than Farringdon and no more of a "terminal" under
non-blockade circumstances), but if I dare to get off at the station
between them I risk a £10 penalty fare. Grr.

Kings Cross Thameslink is not a valid "London Terminal" for journeys
from the south.

From the Thameslink website:

http://www.travelbuddy.info/main.php...id=6&page_id=9

"Customers travelling to London from the south, including the Brighton
line and the Wimbledon – Sutton – Carshalton line, will continue to be
issued with tickets with the destination “London Terminals” if
travelling to London Bridge, Blackfriars or City Thameslink. Customers
travelling to Farringdon or King's Cross Thameslink from the south
will continue to receive tickets naming these specific stations."

On 25 Mar 2005 01:13:00 -0800, "Rupert Candy"
wrote:


Matthew wrote:
.. .
The gates at London Bridge on the National Rail platforms will let
you
through with only prepay on an oystercard, but will not deduct any
fare or resolve the journey. The validators on platforms 5/6 must
be
used even if you have already touched in or out there.

That could be useful to know, if only to avoid putting my season
ticket
through the gates.

Frequent use may well be monitored to stop "dumb-belling".

What does 'dumb-belling' mean?


"Dumb-belling" or short ticket fraud is where somebody uses passes
valid solely at each end of a long journey to pass through gatelines.
For example holding a Z1 travelcard and a Z6 travelcard, and making
regular Z1-6 journeys. Gates can be set to monitor this with paper
tickets, and I imagine on Oystercards too.

On 25 Mar 2005 16:01:45 -0800, "Rupert Candy"
wrote:


Dave Arquati wrote:
Rupert Candy wrote:
In that case I suppose the Farringdon validators are actually
intended
for people changing *onto* Thameslink, having used Prepay to get
them
there on the Tube (since otherwise you would be leaving the Tube
without passing through a gateline). In fact I can't think of any
way
they could be used in the opposite direction (though I suppose
someone
might *theoretically* have e.g. a Brighton - Farringdon LU
season...)

Not really... you could have any National Rail ticket valid to
Farringdon (e.g. a single from Luton to Farringdon) and then you
would
touch in on the validators with an Oyster in order to continue your
journey on the Tube (e.g. to Whitechapel).

I suppose so, but I wonder how many people in e.g. Luton realise that
if they buy a ticket to "London" it won't be valid at Farringdon, so
they have to buy a ticket to "Farringdon LU"? In other words, how many
people would *correctly* use the validators for the journey you
describe? (Obviously a rhetorical question.)

IMHO the status of Farringdon as a non-London Terminal is a ridiculous
anomaly that catches out large numbers of people who believe themselves
to be holding a valid ticket. It's ridiculous that with my particular
season ticket I can get off the train at City Thameslink or KXT (a good
deal further on than Farringdon and no more of a "terminal" under
non-blockade circumstances), but if I dare to get off at the station
between them I risk a £10 penalty fare. Grr.

Actually this is a bit weird.
I have several clients about the Farringdon area and so did specify
Farringdon when going there pre-blockade. Still was inevitably given a
London Terminals ticket. Now just get a Travel Card so I can free up
my options.

In the last couple of months I have also had some surprises WRT
Farringdon KX travel. Returning in a group from an evening function at
Clerkenwell in very inclement weather we used TL to KX then walked
down the tunnels to KX underground for shelter, forgetting that that
would mean that we would hit the Northern barriers at the other end.
The TL tickets operated these with no problem.

Then at the next function we found the weather just as bad and used
the Circle line to return, expecting to pay extra at the barriers at
KX. Nope, ML tickets were accepted by them

Keith J Chesworth

www.unseenlondon.co.uk
www.blackpooltram.co.uk
www.happysnapper.com
www.boilerbill.com - main site
www.amerseyferry.co.uk

Barry Salter wrote:
On 25 Mar 2005 16:01:45 -0800, "Rupert Candy"
wrote:

I suppose so, but I wonder how many people in e.g. Luton realise
that
if they buy a ticket to "London" it won't be valid at Farringdon, so
they have to buy a ticket to "Farringdon LU"? In other words, how
many
people would *correctly* use the validators for the journey you
describe? (Obviously a rhetorical question.)

In the normal course of events, tickets from stations between West
Hampstead and Bedford (inclusive) *to* London should be issued to
London
Thameslink (NLC 4452), and are valid to stations from Kings Cross
Thamelsink through to Moorgate, Elephant & Castle or London Bridge.

Interesting, because the same isn't true on the southern section
(presumably because of the more complex pattern of services/terminals)
- if I buy a ticket to "London Terminals" at Herne Hill, it will be
routed "Not Underground" (as you describe later on in your posting) and
therefore (I suppose) not valid at Farringdon or KXT. But presumably
it will be cheaper than a ticket to "London Thameslink".

We've really opened a can of worms here. It's far more complex (and
anomalous) than I thought.

I honestly hadn't realised that KXT wasn't a "London Terminal". I'm
glad I never tried to get out through the barriers there with my
season...