London Banter - Question about Broad Street

Tom Anderson wrote:
Fascinating stuff, Stephen! Mind if i ask a few more questions ...

You can ask; I don't know if I'll be able to answer them.

Any idea what (if any) services ran up the Lea Valley line from
Stratford
to Tottenham before that? And were there any other such services
after
'64? This bit of line is basically completely disused now (though
there
are plans to use it again), so it's interesting to know how it was
once
used.

I think the Palace Gates - North Woolwich was the only passenger
service using it at the time that the palace Gates branch closed, and
that Tottenham Hale - North Woolwich and finally the Tottenham Hale -
Stratford peak hours shuttle were the only passenger services at that
time. When the old subway leading to the higher-numbered platforms at
Stratford was being cleaned up some years ago in preparation for the
re-opening of platforms 11 and 12, a load of rubbish was dragged out of
one of the dis-used side rooms, and dumped in the subway. among this
was a rotten wooden frame with the remains of an old timetable on it.
It was just about possible to make out services to Hertford East from
platform 12, but I don't know when these ceased. I think the timetable
was from the early '50s. Of course, these platforms served not only
the Lee Valley line, but also the Loughton line to Epping and Ongar,
before this was taken over by the Underground in 1949 I think it was.
The connection was still there for many years, used by odd trains.

I've never heard about a line from there to Poplar before (but then i
don't know much about this stuff) - am i right in thinking that ran
from
the northeast corner of Victoria Park to Bow, roundabout where what
is now
the DLR crosses Bow Road? Looking at the map, that looks like a very
sensible alignment; in fact, it's sort of obvious there was once a
railway
there when you look at the orientation of the lines!

The NLR started out as the 'East and West India Docks and Birmingham
Junction Railway'; that name didn't last long! The line to Broad
Street wasn't part of the original scheme, and was built later. There
was a station called 'Kingsland' on the site of the new 'Dalston
Kingsland', which closed a very long time ago, but the remains of it
still survived until removed for the construction of the new station.
The service ran via the Primrose Hill line from the junction with the
LNWR at Camden, through Dalston, following the current route through
Hommerton to Victoria Park station, from where it turned South, close
to the Eastern edge of the park, roughly where the big modern road is,
and then crossed the Hertford Union Canal on a bridge. The next
station was at Old Ford. The line Passed under the Great Eastern main
line. If you catch a DLR trian from Stratford The point where it
leaves the alignment of the main line is Bow Junction. The single
track line with overhead electrification from here leads to Gas Factory
Junction, on the Fenchurch Street line, with an intermediate station at
Bow Road. This is the line which crosses the main road on a steel
bridge, between the Bow Road underground and Bow Church DLR stations.
Before electrification there were services from Fenchurch Street to the
GER lines, and there was planned to be an electric shuttle service form
Fenchurch Street to Stratford. This was the purpose of the two bay
platforms, 4 and 7 at the rebuilt Stratford station, which were never
used, until the DLR took over platform 4 many years later.

The DLR turns very sharp left, to join the alignment of the old NLR
line to Poplar. The DLR station at Bow Church is close to the old NLR
Bow station, it was on the opposite side of the road, now a used car
yard I think, some slight traces of the station still exist. There was
a passenger walkway between Bow Road GER and Bow NLR stations, but this
closed in about 1917. There were extra stairways at the Stratford end
of Bow Road station leading to it. The NLR service normally terminated
at Poplar, now All Saints, but there was a connection Eastwards onto
the London and Blackwall Railway.

After the Broad Street line was built there was a curve to the East at
Dalston. Dalston Junction station had two platforms on this side, and
the service ran from Broad Street to Poplar, until withdrawn during
WWII, and never re-instated.

Interestingly, on another map (Multimap's 1:50 000), there even seems
to
be a bit of line projecting to the north of Bow Road; surely there
isn't
actually anything there? I'm not sure if it's a mistake, a
misreading, or
a nihilkartel!

If it's the bit I think you mean, it looks like a bit of the line from
Victoria Park Junction which we were talking about. If so, it's not
there now. There's nothing between the junction and the point where
the DLR joins the route.

Where abouts is that? Is it the thing that's now a trendy bar, right
under
the line and on Mare Street?

Most of it is derelict. I think there was a greegrocers shop at street
level at one time. It stands just off the platform end, look for
round-topped arched windows; a typical NLR feature. This is now their
only surviving station building.

Anyway, thanks for the info. It's fascinating to see how much the
railways
have shifted about - the stuff about the GN moving from the Widened
Lines
to the Northern City Line, which it took over from LU, for example.
I'm
used to thinking about railways as very much permanent, immutable
things,
but in reality, they're incredibly plastic.

They don't move much, and new ones are seldom built. What does happen
is that old ones close. Closures were not that common in most parts
London, but there were many in this area, partly dur to wartime
bombing, and partly due to the rundown of the docks.

Jim Connor has written several books on the railways of East london;
you might want to look at them.