In article ,
(Mrs Redboots) wrote:

Marratxi wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 15 Apr 2005:

Thanks, Chris. I thought it had to be Ally Pally but didn't know that
the NLL had gone anywhere near there or maybe I just completely misread
the thread.

There's still a station called Alexandra Palace, and you can get a WAGN
train to it from Moorgate or King's Cross - you do have to walk up the
hill to get to the ice rink, though, or catch a bus (W3 or W5, I think,
but I can't remember what).

"Still" is a slightly dodgy word in this context. The old Wood Green
station is now called "Alexandra Palace". The previous station named
"Alexandra Palace" closed many years ago.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:22:12 +0100, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

Not quite as obscure, but tidying my desk the other day I found a
British Rail map of London services dating from 1965.

Must've been quite a while since the last tidy-up...
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683719.html
(Bubble car 55003 framed by foliage at Stratford-upon-Avon in 1982)

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:22:12 +0100, Clive D. W. Feather wrote:

* Kentish Town to Barking via Upper Holloway, Crouch Hill, and South
Tottenham

I did that route in about 1978 on one of those Bed-Pan DHMU's. I suppose
that some time in the dim and distant past, the services along that
route started from St. Pancras.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12161698.html
(ex-GWR Railcar 22 in fine form at Didcot in 1995)

Last week, Baz Marratxi asked:
Sorry to be ignorant but could somebody please tell me more
about Palace Gates ? Where, when, etc.

Palace Gates station was indeed named after Alexandra Palace, but
was even farther from it than the present station of that name
(which was formerly called Wood Green). I don't have the exact
location, but it would appear to have been near the present-day
Imperial Road, which is off Bounds Green Road.

When Palace Gates opened on 1878-10-07, it was the terminus of a
Great Eastern branch extending 2 miles from Seven Sisters station
on their line to Enfield. An intermediate station on the branch
was Green Lanes, later called Noel Park, and the branch had opened
that far on 1878-01-01. There was a plan to extend the branch
to the Alexandra Palace station then existing, which actually was
adjacent to the palace, but this never came to fruition.

That Alexandra Palace station was the terminus of the Muswell Hill
Railway, a 3/4-mile branch line running northeast from a point
called Park Junction. This was 1/2 mile northwest of Highgate on
the Great Northern branch line that had originally ran straight
northwest from Finsbury Park to Edgware, then acquired a subsidiary
branch to High Barnet, and then the latter became more important
so that Edgware was now considered the subsidiary branch.

The Muswell Hill Railway first opened on 1873-05-24 along with
the palace, then closed and reopened several times over the years.
It was eventally bought by the GNR in 1911 and so became part of
the LNER. Thus if the connection had been completed, it would have
formed a loop like a bent and inverted letter U, Liverpool Street -
Bethnal Green - Seven Sisters - Palace Gates - Alexandra Palace -
Highgate - Finsbury Park - King's Cross. I don't know what actual
services were considered when the connection was being planned.

Another reuse for Alexandra Palace station that never came to
fruition was part of the 1930s Northern Heights plan. The LNER's
whole group of branches to High Barnet, Edgware, and Alexandra
Palace, along with the Moorgate - Finsbury Park route, were to
be transferred to the Underground's Northern Line, with track
connections at Finsbury Park and Highgate. But WW2, Austerity,
and planning changes left this project half-complete.

In the end, of course, the High Barnet branch was transferred to
the Northern Line, along with the Edgware branch only as far as
Mill Hill East, with the rest closing. But the Finsbury Park -
Highgate section, now serving only the Alexandra Palace branch,
remained in LNER and then BR hands, and closed in 1954. The station
name Alexandra Palace was subsequently transferred to Wood Green
on the main line.

The Palace Gates branch, being GER, had also become part of the
LNER, and in 1929 they decided to make a track connection from
there, not to Alexandra Palace, but onto their nearby Hertford loop.
This was not fully signalled until 1944, after which it was used
by Southend excursions. Most services continued to terminate at
Palace Gates; at this time off-peak trains just ran to Seven Sisters
while the peaks saw through service to Liverpool Street as well
as to North Woolwich (via South Tottenham) and perhaps other points.

Traffic at Palace Gates declined sharply in the postwar years;
passenger service ended on 1963-01-07 and the branch was closed
altogether on 1964-12-28.

[Most details in this posting are from "A Regional History of the
Railways of Great Britain", vol. 3, Greater London, by H.P. White,
1987 edition.]
--
Mark Brader | "...one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman
Toronto | Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to
| indicate successful termination of their C programs."
| -- Robert Firth
My text in this article is in the public domain.

In article , (Mark Brader)
wrote:

Palace Gates station was indeed named after Alexandra Palace, but
was even farther from it than the present station of that name
(which was formerly called Wood Green). I don't have the exact
location, but it would appear to have been near the present-day
Imperial Road, which is off Bounds Green Road.

I think the station remains are still visible from the Hertford North
branch at the back of Bounds Green GNER depot. The aerial photo on
Multimap suggests it is still there.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

I think the station remains are still visible from the Hertford North
branch at the back of Bounds Green GNER depot. The aerial photo on
Multimap suggests it is still there

The platforms and tracks were still there in the late-1970s, and were
used by trains to the household coal depot, which was situated between
the station and Bounds Green Depot.

Access was from the north end, and the coal depot had a pit road that
the 21-ton hoppers were discharged into. Wagons could be moved along
the pit road by means of a motor-driven steel cable.

In article . com,
() wrote:

I think the station remains are still visible from the Hertford North
branch at the back of Bounds Green GNER depot. The aerial photo on
Multimap suggests it is still there

The platforms and tracks were still there in the late-1970s, and were
used by trains to the household coal depot, which was situated between
the station and Bounds Green Depot.

Access was from the north end, and the coal depot had a pit road that
the 21-ton hoppers were discharged into. Wagons could be moved along
the pit road by means of a motor-driven steel cable.

That was then but what about now?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message
ups.com...
I think the station remains are still visible from the Hertford North
branch at the back of Bounds Green GNER depot. The aerial photo on
Multimap suggests it is still there

The platforms and tracks were still there in the late-1970s, and were
used by trains to the household coal depot, which was situated between
the station and Bounds Green Depot.

Access was from the north end, and the coal depot had a pit road that
the 21-ton hoppers were discharged into. Wagons could be moved along
the pit road by means of a motor-driven steel cable.

As I previously posted: www.disused-stations.org.uk, click on "List of
Closed Railway Stations" and then select Palace Gates for more information.

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
Last week, Baz Marratxi asked:
Sorry to be ignorant but could somebody please tell me more
about Palace Gates ? Where, when, etc.

-- snipped

When Palace Gates opened on 1878-10-07, it was the terminus of a
Great Eastern branch extending 2 miles from Seven Sisters station
on their line to Enfield. An intermediate station on the branch
was Green Lanes, later called Noel Park, and the branch had opened
that far on 1878-01-01. There was a plan to extend the branch
to the Alexandra Palace station then existing, which actually was
adjacent to the palace, but this never came to fruition.

-- snipped

Thank you for a very interesting synopsis of the history of the Place Gates
line. However I would suggest that the main reason that the connection
between Palace Gates and (the then) Alexandra Palace station was not
progressed, would be due to the difference in height between the two
locations. As you note, the original Alexandra Palace station was part of
the "Northern Heights". This building can still be seen on the skyline from
the station now known as "Alexandra Palace" (and provided quite a spectacle
when it caught fire a few years ago). The gradient necessary for a link line
would probably have required the use of rack and pinion!

In article ,
(J Lynch) wrote:

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
Last week, Baz Marratxi asked:
Sorry to be ignorant but could somebody please tell me more
about Palace Gates ? Where, when, etc.

-- snipped

When Palace Gates opened on 1878-10-07, it was the terminus of a
Great Eastern branch extending 2 miles from Seven Sisters station
on their line to Enfield. An intermediate station on the branch
was Green Lanes, later called Noel Park, and the branch had opened
that far on 1878-01-01. There was a plan to extend the branch
to the Alexandra Palace station then existing, which actually was
adjacent to the palace, but this never came to fruition.

-- snipped

Thank you for a very interesting synopsis of the history of the Place
Gates line. However I would suggest that the main reason that the
connection between Palace Gates and (the then) Alexandra Palace station
was not progressed, would be due to the difference in height between the
two locations. As you note, the original Alexandra Palace station was
part of the "Northern Heights". This building can still be seen on the
skyline from the station now known as "Alexandra Palace" (and provided
quite a spectacle when it caught fire a few years ago). The gradient
necessary for a link line would probably have required the use of rack
and pinion!

I thought the original (prospective Northern line) Alexandra Palace
station was at the bottom of the hill from the actual palace?

--
Colin Rosenstiel