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Question about Broad Street
In this photo of Broad Street taken in the 60s:
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...ad_street5.jpg How come the 2 nearest tracks have 4th rail electrification? Did LT stock ever run into this terminus? B2003 |
Question about Broad Street
In message .com,
Boltar writes In this photo of Broad Street taken in the 60s: http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...ad_street5.jpg How come the 2 nearest tracks have 4th rail electrification? For the North London line's Broad Street to Watford and Broad Street to Richmond services: http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~gsgleaves/northlondon.htm Did LT stock ever run into this terminus? I don't think so. 4th rail was phased out in 1970, IIRC. -- Paul Terry |
Question about Broad Street
snip
Talking of Broad Street, what happenned to the services that used to operate into this station? I also see, from looking elsewhere that Broad Street had an Underground station. What happenned to this? |
Question about Broad Street
wrote in message
oups.com... snip Talking of Broad Street, what happenned to the services that used to operate into this station? I also see, from looking elsewhere that Broad Street had an Underground station. What happenned to this? As I understand it, the Palace Gates to North Woolwich and Richmond to Broad Street services were merged to become Richmond to North Woolwich. The Palace Gates branch closed a while ago, so there was presumably a period when there was just a Dalston Junction (or thereabouts) to North Woolwich shuttle. Once Broad Street closed, there was no main line access to the North London Line (ie from a BR-owned terminus); passengers from Central London had to use tube lines such as the Victoria from KX to Highbury and Islington or the Northern line from Euston to Kentish Town. I remember in the 80s or 90s (after Broad Street had closed and the new offices bult on the site) there was an occasional service from Liverpool Street via the newly-built Graham Road curve (north of Cambridge Heath) onto the NLL. I'm not sure whether it went to Richmond or whether it branched off onto the WCML to go to Watford Junction. Wasn't the Broad Street underground station simply another exit from Liverpool Street underground? I can't see any mention in Douglas Rose's map of a separate station. |
Question about Broad Street
"Martin Underwood" wrote in message ... Wasn't the Broad Street underground station simply another exit from Liverpool Street underground? I can't see any mention in Douglas Rose's map of a separate station. Still there, AFAIK. It's the exit from the sub-surface lines that emerges in the street (rather than inside the Liverpool St mainline concourse) by the Broadgate development. I think it's peak times only, like the Central Line exit at the East End of Liverpool Street. As an aside, I find the 'main' exit from Liverpool Street Underground by far the /least/ useful. BTN |
Question about Broad Street
Martin Underwood wrote: wrote in message oups.com... snip Talking of Broad Street, what happenned to the services that used to operate into this station? I also see, from looking elsewhere that Broad Street had an Underground station. What happenned to this? As I understand it, the Palace Gates to North Woolwich and Richmond to Broad Street services were merged to become Richmond to North Woolwich. The Palace Gates branch closed a while ago, so there was presumably a period when there was just a Dalston Junction (or thereabouts) to North Woolwich shuttle. Once Broad Street closed, there was no main line access to the North London Line (ie from a BR-owned terminus); passengers from Central London had to use tube lines such as the Victoria from KX to Highbury and Islington or the Northern line from Euston to Kentish Town. This is truly obscure, but I couldn't resist posting it - I was in Stockholm earlier this week and was flabbergasted to find, attached to the ceiling of an "English pub" (which is incidentally a very common beast there) a NSE-era (ie blue and white) line diagram from Watford Junction, which showed the DC line service to Euston, plus peak-hour services to Liverpool Street (*not* Broad Street). The sign also showed Primrose Hill and the Croxley Green branch, so that might help in dating it. Did NLL services ever run into Liverpool St? I have a reasonable digital photo of the sign if anyone's interested. |
Question about Broad Street
Boltar wrote: In this photo of Broad Street taken in the 60s: http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/s...ad_street5.jpg How come the 2 nearest tracks have 4th rail electrification? Did LT stock ever run into this terminus? Yes and no. I believe that a very long time ago, the District Railway served Broad St from Kensington Olympia (and probably further south/east e.g. Mansion House). The service didn't last long and was probably not electric. It may even have been just though coaches on someone else's service. Sorry I can't be more specific, I'm writing this from memory without access to a huge library of books! PhilD -- |
Question about Broad Street
Rupert Candy wrote:
This is truly obscure, but I couldn't resist posting it - I was in Stockholm earlier this week and was flabbergasted to find, attached to the ceiling of an "English pub" (which is incidentally a very common beast there) a NSE-era (ie blue and white) line diagram from Watford Junction, which showed the DC line service to Euston, plus peak-hour services to Liverpool Street (*not* Broad Street). The sign also showed Primrose Hill and the Croxley Green branch, so that might help in dating it. Did NLL services ever run into Liverpool St? I have a reasonable digital photo of the sign if anyone's interested. Details of the pub would be of interest to someone I know. |
Question about Broad Street
Brimstone wrote:
Details of the pub would be of interest to someone I know. It's called the Pig & Whistle, and it's in the shopping centre on Medborgarplatsen in Sodermalm. It's full of railway memorabilia, including a (non-functioning) Platform Tickets machine... |
Question about Broad Street
Rupert Candy wrote:
Brimstone wrote: Details of the pub would be of interest to someone I know. It's called the Pig & Whistle, and it's in the shopping centre on Medborgarplatsen in Sodermalm. It's full of railway memorabilia, including a (non-functioning) Platform Tickets machine... Thanks for that. |
Question about Broad Street
On 1 Apr 2005 04:49:54 -0800, Rupert Candy wrote:
a NSE-era (ie blue and white) line diagram from Watford Junction, which showed the DC line service to Euston, plus peak-hour services to Liverpool Street (*not* Broad Street). The sign also showed Primrose Hill and the Croxley Green branch Did NLL services ever run into Liverpool St? Yes they did, for about a year. I also own one of these signs. I bought it for £15 from Collector's Corner. It's about 5 ft by 3 ft, and it caused some logistical problems getting it home. At the time I bought mine, CC had at least half a dozen other examples for sale. They were all in bubble wrap, and had never been displayed on the relevant stations. I guess they were spares, in case of vandalism, but the service was so short lived that the re was no need to deploy them. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683904.html (210 001 under cover at Stratford Depot in 1983) |
Question about Broad Street
On 1 Apr 2005, Rupert Candy wrote:
Martin Underwood wrote: wrote in message oups.com... snip Talking of Broad Street, what happenned to the services that used to operate into this station? I also see, from looking elsewhere that Broad Street had an Underground station. What happenned to this? As I understand it, the Palace Gates to North Woolwich and Richmond to Broad Street services were merged to become Richmond to North Woolwich. The Palace Gates branch closed a while ago, so there was presumably a period when there was just a Dalston Junction (or thereabouts) to North Woolwich shuttle. Once Broad Street closed, there was no main line access to the North London Line (ie from a BR-owned terminus); passengers from Central London had to use tube lines such as the Victoria from KX to Highbury and Islington or the Northern line from Euston to Kentish Town. Stratford? Not a terminus, i suppose. This is truly obscure, but I couldn't resist posting it - I was in Stockholm earlier this week and was flabbergasted to find, attached to the ceiling of an "English pub" (which is incidentally a very common beast there) a NSE-era (ie blue and white) line diagram from Watford Junction, which showed the DC line service to Euston, plus peak-hour services to Liverpool Street (*not* Broad Street). The sign also showed Primrose Hill and the Croxley Green branch, so that might help in dating it. Did NLL services ever run into Liverpool St? I have a reasonable digital photo of the sign if anyone's interested. I'd like to see it; i'd also be happy to give it a home on the internet if you like. tom -- The final chapter, prophetic, poetic |
Question about Broad Street
Rupert Candy wrote:
Brimstone wrote: Details of the pub would be of interest to someone I know. It's called the Pig & Whistle, and it's in the shopping centre on Medborgarplatsen in Sodermalm. It's full of railway memorabilia, including a (non-functioning) Platform Tickets machine... Thanks for that. |
Question about Broad Street
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:19:53 +0100, "Martin Underwood"
wrote: As I understand it, the Palace Gates to North Woolwich and Richmond to Broad Street services were merged to become Richmond to North Woolwich. The Palace Gates branch closed a while ago, so there was presumably a period when there was just a Dalston Junction (or thereabouts) to North Woolwich shuttle. NW - Stratford and Tottenham Hale, wasn't it? I remember in the 80s or 90s (after Broad Street had closed and the new offices bult on the site) there was an occasional service from Liverpool Street via the newly-built Graham Road curve (north of Cambridge Heath) onto the NLL. I'm not sure whether it went to Richmond or whether it branched off onto the WCML to go to Watford Junction. Watford via Primrose Hill for a while, I think 3 trains per peak originally. The three-car units seemed very short in Liverpool St. By the end there was a single Watford - Liverpool St. in the morning, returning to Willesden Junction LL. Don't know if there was a corresponding evening service. |
Question about Broad Street
That was just a subway connection to Liverpool Street underground:
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13277473.html http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13277476.html Thanks Chris, Martin & those who also replied. Now I come to think of it, it was on your gallery, Chris that I saw those photos! |
Question about Broad Street
Chris Tolley wrote in uk.transport.london on Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:28:26
GMT : On 1 Apr 2005 04:49:54 -0800, Rupert Candy wrote: a NSE-era (ie blue and white) line diagram from Watford Junction, which showed the DC line service to Euston, plus peak-hour services to Liverpool Street (*not* Broad Street). The sign also showed Primrose Hill and the Croxley Green branch Did NLL services ever run into Liverpool St? Yes they did, for about a year. I also own one of these signs. I bought it for £15 from Collector's Corner. It's about 5 ft by 3 ft, and it caused some logistical problems getting it home. At the time I bought mine, CC had at least half a dozen other examples for sale. They were all in bubble wrap, and had never been displayed on the relevant stations. I guess they were spares, in case of vandalism, but the service was so short lived that the re was no need to deploy them. IIRC there's also one in the Head of Steam pub at Euston. -- baby-sitter - one who mounts guard over a baby to relieve the usual attendant Chambers 20th Century Dictionary |
Question about Broad Street
Chris Tolley wrote:
I also see, from looking elsewhere that Broad Street had an Underground station. What happenned to this? That was just a subway connection to Liverpool Street underground: http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13277473.html http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13277476.html Interesting to see the "Red Arrow" National in both those pictures - was there ever a Red Arrow route to Liverpool Street, or was the bus just passing out of service? In fact - were there ever any other Red Arrow routes anywhere, other than the existing 507 and 521? Cheers, Steve |
Question about Broad Street
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 22:33:22 +0100, Steve M
wrote: Chris Tolley wrote: I also see, from looking elsewhere that Broad Street had an Underground station. What happenned to this? That was just a subway connection to Liverpool Street underground: http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13277473.html http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13277476.html Interesting to see the "Red Arrow" National in both those pictures - was there ever a Red Arrow route to Liverpool Street, or was the bus just passing out of service? In fact - were there ever any other Red Arrow routes anywhere, other than the existing 507 and 521? I have a vague recollection of there being a 502 Red Arrow that served Liverpool Street. The old 505 Red Arrow also served Liverpool St as it ran via the current 149 from London Bridge to Shoreditch and then ran via the 55 to Holborn and then across to Waterloo. A rather useful "round the corner" link to Old Street from Liverpool St. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Question about Broad Street
In ,
Steve M typed: ....was there ever a Red Arrow route to Liverpool Street, or was the bus just passing out of service? In fact - were there ever any other Red Arrow routes anywhere, other than the existing 507 and 521? 500 Victoria Station - Marble Arch (rush hour) The route was longer between the rush hours and included part of Oxford Street. 501 Waterloo Station - London Bridge Station. 502 Waterloo Station - Liverpool Street Station 503 Waterloo Station - Victoria Station. 505 Waterloo Station - Marble Arch. 506 Victoria Station - Piccadilly Circus. 507 Waterloo Station - Victoria Station. 513 Waterloo Station - London Bridge Station. -- Bob |
Question about Broad Street
In message , Bob Wood
writes In , Steve M typed: ....was there ever a Red Arrow route to Liverpool Street, or was the bus just passing out of service? In fact - were there ever any other Red Arrow routes anywhere, other than the existing 507 and 521? 500 Victoria Station - Marble Arch (rush hour) The route was longer between the rush hours and included part of Oxford Street. 501 Waterloo Station - London Bridge Station. 502 Waterloo Station - Liverpool Street Station 503 Waterloo Station - Victoria Station. 505 Waterloo Station - Marble Arch. 506 Victoria Station - Piccadilly Circus. 507 Waterloo Station - Victoria Station. 513 Waterloo Station - London Bridge Station. I was about to post something similar but not quite as detailed! Thanks, Bob. I'd just add that all the original Red Arrows were limited stop routes, sometimes with *very* long spacings between stops. I think that the 500 ran non stop Marble Arch to Victoria but I can't verify that at the moment. (Someone will doubtless correct me if necessary.) I think that today's 507 and 521 serve many if not most stops; certainly if they don't, not much is made of their having an "express" nature. -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Question about Broad Street
"Bonzo" wrote in message
... On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:19:53 +0100, "Martin Underwood" wrote: As I understand it, the Palace Gates to North Woolwich and Richmond to Broad Street services were merged to become Richmond to North Woolwich. The Palace Gates branch closed a while ago, so there was presumably a period when there was just a Dalston Junction (or thereabouts) to North Woolwich shuttle. NW - Stratford and Tottenham Hale, wasn't it? Yes. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Question about Broad Street
"Sir Benjamin Nunn" wrote in message ...
"Martin Underwood" wrote in message ... Wasn't the Broad Street underground station simply another exit from Liverpool Street underground? I can't see any mention in Douglas Rose's map of a separate station. Still there, AFAIK. It's the exit from the sub-surface lines that emerges in the street (rather than inside the Liverpool St mainline concourse) by the Broadgate development. There were two ancient, and long disused, lifts on the concourse at Broad Street, at least the shafts were still there, I don't know if the cars were still in them. No idea when they were taken out of use, , but they looked long-dead when I first saw them, in the early '70s. |
Question about Broad Street
"Martin Underwood" wrote in message ...
wrote in message oups.com... snip Talking of Broad Street, what happenned to the services that used to operate into this station? I also see, from looking elsewhere that Broad Street had an Underground station. What happenned to this? As I understand it, the Palace Gates to North Woolwich and Richmond to Broad Street services were merged to become Richmond to North Woolwich. The Palace Gates branch closed a while ago, so there was presumably a period when there was just a Dalston Junction (or thereabouts) to North Woolwich shuttle. After Palace Gates closed, around '64 I think, the service became Tottenham Hale - North Woolwich. Later, '80s sometime, Tottenham Hale service became a shuttle to Stratford, in peak hours only. This was withdrawn in 1984, and Lea Bridge station closed. North Woolwich service was diverted to Camden Road via the line from Dalston Western Junction to Stratford Low Level, which had been freight only since the Broad Street - Poplar service was withdrawn in the '40s, and never re-instated after the war. Hackney station was re-opened as Hackney Central, though not using the original building, which still survives. Hommerton station did not re-open until a few years later, Victoria Park station, which was at the junction of the lines to Stratford and Poplar, remained closed, and was replaced by the new Hackney Wick station, further East. The line from Victoria Park Junction to Poplar remained open for freight, but became little used with the closure of the docks. It finally closed to all traffic around 1984. The DLR later took over the Southern section of this route, All Saints station is on the site of the old North London Poplar East India Road station. A small part of the original front wall of the station building is still there, at least I think it is, it was last year. The Northern section of this route, from Victoria Park Junction to where the DLR service from Stratford joins it is abandoned; the bridge carrying it over the Hertford Union Canal was removed long ago, but a fairly modern, large blue-painted steel bridge which carried it over roads just south of the junction survived for much longer, and could be seen from passing North London Line trains to Stratford. I remember in the 80s or 90s (after Broad Street had closed and the new offices bult on the site) there was an occasional service from Liverpool Street via the newly-built Graham Road curve (north of Cambridge Heath) onto the NLL. I'm not sure whether it went to Richmond or whether it branched off onto the WCML to go to Watford Junction. It went to Watford junction via Primrose Hill, replacing the Broad Street - Watford Junction service, which had also been peak hours only. It was short-lived, and was probably being the most cancelled service in London. Towards the end of its time it seldom seemed to actually run. At Watford Junction there was an indicator with twenty lamps, in a 5x4 array, for the 5 (as it was then) d.c. platforms, and 4 destinations served: Euston, Croxley Green, Elephant & Castle and Broad Street. The indicator obviously dated from after the closure of the line to Rickmansworth Church Street. Of these five destinations, only Euston is still served today. Wasn't the Broad Street underground station simply another exit from Liverpool Street underground? I can't see any mention in Douglas Rose's map of a separate station. Yes. The Diesel service from Broad Street to the Great Northern, via the curve at Canonbury, was withdrawn at the time of the Great Northern Surburban Electrification scheme in about '76, which also saw services diverted from these lines diverted from Kings Cross Suburban, and moorgate via the widened Lines, to Moorgate via the Great Northern and City line, which had previously been a branch of the Northern line. Broad Street had a very long decline, starting during the First World War. It once had a service to Wolverhampton, which offered the services of a typist! At it's peak it was one of the busyest stations in London. It was very different towards the end. The long-closed refreshment rooms still carried a sticker with the festival of Britain logo on their windows until the end. |
Question about Broad Street
Bob Wood wrote:
In , Steve M typed: ....was there ever a Red Arrow route to Liverpool Street, or was the bus just passing out of service? In fact - were there ever any other Red Arrow routes anywhere, other than the existing 507 and 521? 500 Victoria Station - Marble Arch (rush hour) The route was longer between the rush hours and included part of Oxford Street. 501 Waterloo Station - London Bridge Station. 502 Waterloo Station - Liverpool Street Station 503 Waterloo Station - Victoria Station. 505 Waterloo Station - Marble Arch. 506 Victoria Station - Piccadilly Circus. 507 Waterloo Station - Victoria Station. 513 Waterloo Station - London Bridge Station. I had no idea there used to be so many! Thanks! Cheers, Steve M |
Question about Broad Street
Barry Salter wrote:
snippity Well according to the TfL Journey Planner, the 507 stops at: Victoria Bus Station Westminster Cathedral Army & Navy Strutton Ground Marsham Street Millbank / Horseferry Road Lambeth Palace St.Thomas Hospital Waterloo Station So it seems to be more of a "semi-fast" than an express service these days... Cheers, Barry I don't know the 521 that well, but certainly for the 507 those are all the possible stops en-route between Victoria and Waterloo (via Lambeth Bridge). To me though, it does feel slightly more "semi-fast" than the 211 via Westminster Bridge, probably due to the amount of traffic around Parliament Square. Cheers, Steve M |
Question about Broad Street
"Rupert Candy" wrote in message oups.com... HEFTY SNIP This is truly obscure, but I couldn't resist posting it - I was in Stockholm earlier this week and was flabbergasted to find, attached to the ceiling of an "English pub" (which is incidentally a very common beast there) a NSE-era (ie blue and white) line diagram from Watford Junction, which showed the DC line service to Euston, plus peak-hour services to Liverpool Street (*not* Broad Street). The sign also showed Primrose Hill and the Croxley Green branch, so that might help in dating it. Did NLL services ever run into Liverpool St? I have a reasonable digital photo of the sign if anyone's interested. Could you please post it to a.b.p.r. ? Cheerz, Baz |
Question about Broad Street
Fascinating stuff, Stephen! Mind if i ask a few more questions ...
On 2 Apr 2005, Stephen Furley wrote: "Martin Underwood" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com... Talking of Broad Street, what happenned to the services that used to operate into this station? I also see, from looking elsewhere that Broad Street had an Underground station. What happenned to this? As I understand it, the Palace Gates to North Woolwich and Richmond to Broad Street services were merged to become Richmond to North Woolwich. The Palace Gates branch closed a while ago, so there was presumably a period when there was just a Dalston Junction (or thereabouts) to North Woolwich shuttle. After Palace Gates closed, around '64 I think, the service became Tottenham Hale - North Woolwich. Any idea what (if any) services ran up the Lea Valley line from Stratford to Tottenham before that? And were there any other such services after '64? This bit of line is basically completely disused now (though there are plans to use it again), so it's interesting to know how it was once used. Later, '80s sometime, Tottenham Hale service became a shuttle to Stratford, in peak hours only. This was withdrawn in 1984, and Lea Bridge station closed. North Woolwich service was diverted to Camden Road via the line from Dalston Western Junction to Stratford Low Level, which had been freight only since the Broad Street - Poplar service was withdrawn in the '40s, and never re-instated after the war. The line from Victoria Park Junction to Poplar remained open for freight, but became little used with the closure of the docks. It finally closed to all traffic around 1984. The DLR later took over the Southern section of this route, All Saints station is on the site of the old North London Poplar East India Road station. A small part of the original front wall of the station building is still there, at least I think it is, it was last year. I've never heard about a line from there to Poplar before (but then i don't know much about this stuff) - am i right in thinking that ran from the northeast corner of Victoria Park to Bow, roundabout where what is now the DLR crosses Bow Road? Looking at the map, that looks like a very sensible alignment; in fact, it's sort of obvious there was once a railway there when you look at the orientation of the lines! The Northern section of this route, from Victoria Park Junction to where the DLR service from Stratford joins it is abandoned; the bridge carrying it over the Hertford Union Canal was removed long ago, but a fairly modern, large blue-painted steel bridge which carried it over roads just south of the junction survived for much longer, and could be seen from passing North London Line trains to Stratford. You can see the old bridge over the roads on the OS Landranger map on Multimap; no idea how old that is. Interestingly, on another map (Multimap's 1:50 000), there even seems to be a bit of line projecting to the north of Bow Road; surely there isn't actually anything there? I'm not sure if it's a mistake, a misreading, or a nihilkartel! Hackney station was re-opened as Hackney Central, though not using the original building, which still survives. Where abouts is that? Is it the thing that's now a trendy bar, right under the line and on Mare Street? Anyway, thanks for the info. It's fascinating to see how much the railways have shifted about - the stuff about the GN moving from the Widened Lines to the Northern City Line, which it took over from LU, for example. I'm used to thinking about railways as very much permanent, immutable things, but in reality, they're incredibly plastic. tom -- Gens una summus. |
Question about Broad Street
Liverpool Street over a very sharp curve that was newly built. That's
why Watford is one of the destinations you can see when the blinds flip over at Liverpool Street. Not any more, the information boards are all electronic now! B2003 |
Question about Broad Street
Marratxi wrote: Could you please post it to a.b.p.r. ? Cheerz, Baz I'll try and do it this evening. If you (and Tom) want a copy, email me at Tiscali in the UK using my first and last names separated by a dot as the username... |
Question about Broad Street
Tom Anderson wrote: Fascinating stuff, Stephen! Mind if i ask a few more questions ... You can ask; I don't know if I'll be able to answer them. Any idea what (if any) services ran up the Lea Valley line from Stratford to Tottenham before that? And were there any other such services after '64? This bit of line is basically completely disused now (though there are plans to use it again), so it's interesting to know how it was once used. I think the Palace Gates - North Woolwich was the only passenger service using it at the time that the palace Gates branch closed, and that Tottenham Hale - North Woolwich and finally the Tottenham Hale - Stratford peak hours shuttle were the only passenger services at that time. When the old subway leading to the higher-numbered platforms at Stratford was being cleaned up some years ago in preparation for the re-opening of platforms 11 and 12, a load of rubbish was dragged out of one of the dis-used side rooms, and dumped in the subway. among this was a rotten wooden frame with the remains of an old timetable on it. It was just about possible to make out services to Hertford East from platform 12, but I don't know when these ceased. I think the timetable was from the early '50s. Of course, these platforms served not only the Lee Valley line, but also the Loughton line to Epping and Ongar, before this was taken over by the Underground in 1949 I think it was. The connection was still there for many years, used by odd trains. I've never heard about a line from there to Poplar before (but then i don't know much about this stuff) - am i right in thinking that ran from the northeast corner of Victoria Park to Bow, roundabout where what is now the DLR crosses Bow Road? Looking at the map, that looks like a very sensible alignment; in fact, it's sort of obvious there was once a railway there when you look at the orientation of the lines! The NLR started out as the 'East and West India Docks and Birmingham Junction Railway'; that name didn't last long! The line to Broad Street wasn't part of the original scheme, and was built later. There was a station called 'Kingsland' on the site of the new 'Dalston Kingsland', which closed a very long time ago, but the remains of it still survived until removed for the construction of the new station. The service ran via the Primrose Hill line from the junction with the LNWR at Camden, through Dalston, following the current route through Hommerton to Victoria Park station, from where it turned South, close to the Eastern edge of the park, roughly where the big modern road is, and then crossed the Hertford Union Canal on a bridge. The next station was at Old Ford. The line Passed under the Great Eastern main line. If you catch a DLR trian from Stratford The point where it leaves the alignment of the main line is Bow Junction. The single track line with overhead electrification from here leads to Gas Factory Junction, on the Fenchurch Street line, with an intermediate station at Bow Road. This is the line which crosses the main road on a steel bridge, between the Bow Road underground and Bow Church DLR stations. Before electrification there were services from Fenchurch Street to the GER lines, and there was planned to be an electric shuttle service form Fenchurch Street to Stratford. This was the purpose of the two bay platforms, 4 and 7 at the rebuilt Stratford station, which were never used, until the DLR took over platform 4 many years later. The DLR turns very sharp left, to join the alignment of the old NLR line to Poplar. The DLR station at Bow Church is close to the old NLR Bow station, it was on the opposite side of the road, now a used car yard I think, some slight traces of the station still exist. There was a passenger walkway between Bow Road GER and Bow NLR stations, but this closed in about 1917. There were extra stairways at the Stratford end of Bow Road station leading to it. The NLR service normally terminated at Poplar, now All Saints, but there was a connection Eastwards onto the London and Blackwall Railway. After the Broad Street line was built there was a curve to the East at Dalston. Dalston Junction station had two platforms on this side, and the service ran from Broad Street to Poplar, until withdrawn during WWII, and never re-instated. Interestingly, on another map (Multimap's 1:50 000), there even seems to be a bit of line projecting to the north of Bow Road; surely there isn't actually anything there? I'm not sure if it's a mistake, a misreading, or a nihilkartel! If it's the bit I think you mean, it looks like a bit of the line from Victoria Park Junction which we were talking about. If so, it's not there now. There's nothing between the junction and the point where the DLR joins the route. Where abouts is that? Is it the thing that's now a trendy bar, right under the line and on Mare Street? Most of it is derelict. I think there was a greegrocers shop at street level at one time. It stands just off the platform end, look for round-topped arched windows; a typical NLR feature. This is now their only surviving station building. Anyway, thanks for the info. It's fascinating to see how much the railways have shifted about - the stuff about the GN moving from the Widened Lines to the Northern City Line, which it took over from LU, for example. I'm used to thinking about railways as very much permanent, immutable things, but in reality, they're incredibly plastic. They don't move much, and new ones are seldom built. What does happen is that old ones close. Closures were not that common in most parts London, but there were many in this area, partly dur to wartime bombing, and partly due to the rundown of the docks. Jim Connor has written several books on the railways of East london; you might want to look at them. |
Question about Broad Street
I missed out one station on the Poplar line. South Bromley (not to be confused with Bromley South) was between Bow and poplar. When the DLR first opened it used to pass some concrete panels on the back of a building bearing the name "The Far Famed Cake Company". These have now largely gone, though I think a small section of one of them still exists. This was the site of the station. I believe parts of the platforms were still there until removed for the construction of the DLR. Jim Connor's books are published under the name 'J.E. Connor' |
Question about Broad Street
On 4 Apr 2005, Rupert Candy wrote:
Marratxi wrote: Could you please post it to a.b.p.r. ? I'll try and do it this evening. If you (and Tom) want a copy, email me at Tiscali in the UK using my first and last names separated by a dot as the username... I'll keep an eye on abpr. tom -- The ``is'' keyword binds with the same precedence as ``.'', even when it's not actually there. -- Larry Wall, Apocalypse 2 |
Question about Broad Street
On 4 Apr 2005 01:13:37 -0700, "Boltar" wrote:
Not any more, the information boards are all electronic now! When did this happen? Last time I was there, only a month or two ago, Liverpool Street still had a blue Solari board hanging well above the concourse. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
Question about Broad Street
On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:05:10 +0100, Marratxi wrote:
Could you please post it to a.b.p.r. ? I've posted a pic of my one. HTH. -- (the changing appearance of 73 109...) http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9680069.html (1981, Rail blue) http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9680070.html (1991, NSE livery) http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9680071.html (1998, SWT livery) |
Question about Broad Street
Neil Williams wrote: On 4 Apr 2005 01:13:37 -0700, "Boltar" wrote: Not any more, the information boards are all electronic now! When did this happen? Last time I was there, only a month or two ago, Liverpool Street still had a blue Solari board hanging well above the concourse. Yes you're right, my mistake. Forgot about that. Was thinking of the orange flourescent display on the other side of it. B2003 |
Question about Broad Street
In article ,
says... On 4 Apr 2005 01:13:37 -0700, "Boltar" wrote: Not any more, the information boards are all electronic now! When did this happen? Last time I was there, only a month or two ago, Liverpool Street still had a blue Solari board hanging well above the concourse. Neil Whatever it is at Liverpool Street this is the middle part of it [other views also available] http://www.vicinitee.com/docs/travel...webcams_03.cfa |
Question about Broad Street
In article , Stephen
Furley writes There were two ancient, and long disused, lifts on the concourse at Broad Street, There were also escalators from Broad Street to the Central Line. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Question about Broad Street
Clive D. W. Feather wrote: In article , Stephen Furley writes There were two ancient, and long disused, lifts on the concourse at Broad Street, There were also escalators from Broad Street to the Central Line. Would those lift shafts still be there buried under the new buildings or were they completely filled in? B2003 |
Question about Broad Street
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