On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, asdf wrote:

and they are seriously considering re-extending the Bakerloo to
Watford and re-assessing the Silverlink services - they consider
that there is an over-supply of service to central London between
Wealdstone and Queen's Park.

I think people here are underestimating how popular Euston is as a
destination

So, how about adding *more* trains to the Euston service, and running
it on a tube-like basis?

The original problem is that TfL consider there not to be sufficient
demand to sustain the *current* level of service to central London
(whether that's Oxford Circus etc or Euston only)

I thought that the problem was south of Harrow, which is really about
having all the Bakerloos, which people don't want, alongside the
handful of Silverlinks, which people do want.

From another point of view, I find it unlikely that more people want to
travel to the immediate vicinity of Euston than people who want to
continue further into either the City or West End.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Euston is at the heart of a major
employment hub, comparable to the City proper - Euston Road, Bloomsbury
and Holborn are all within walking distance of Euston.

Holborn might be walking distance from Euston for you or me, but I'm
sure many would be put off by such a walk...

http://map.tfl.gov.uk/buslinear.asp?route=92
http://map.tfl.gov.uk/buslinear.asp?route=59
http://map.tfl.gov.uk/buslinear.asp?route=68
http://map.tfl.gov.uk/buslinear.asp?route=168



I take your point, though, it's about a mile, and even the interchange at
Oxford Circus isn't that long.

The Bakerloo provides a service direct to the West End,

Sort of. Oxford Circus, Piccadilly Circus, Charing Cross; i guess it
depends on exactly where you want to go, but i always find these are too
far west for me (Piccadilly Circus? Come on! What's at Piccadilly
Circus?).

I'm sure a large number of offices are within easy walking distance from
Bakerloo line stations.

True - all that Paddington Basin stuff, plus the Embankment.

The Bakerloo does seem to do a very good job of running under posh, quiet
bits of central London on its way into town, though. The environs of
Paddington and Marylebone are not exactly the hives of activity that
surround Liverpool Street or Waterloo.

Piccadilly Circus is one of the most useful stations in London!
Admittedly for me it's usually a starting point to waste money on things
I don't need (alcoholic or otherwise) but there's very dense employment
around there.

One of the things i find most fascinating about London is the way that
some many people can live here and yet have such different lives, even if
doing ostensibly similar things; i manage to waste plenty of money on
unnecessary things which are probably broadly similar to yours, and yet i
rarely step over the Central line, and then it's only ever a run down
Charing Cross road for books, films, chinese buns, etc. London's almost
like ten or twenty separate cities, occupying the same physical space but
lying parallel to each other in some psychosocial dimension.

and to all parts of the City with a single change. Euston provides a
direct service to neither, requiring a single change in both cases.
Euston also has an interchange disadvantage compared to Bakerloo
stations, particularly when transferring to Euston Square.

True. As i mention above, though, some changes are easier - the Northern
line, basically.

Admittedly I've rarely done that change, but is it really any easier
than the change at Oxford Circus to the Central?

Pulling your own teeth is easier than that doing anything at Oxford Circus
when it's busy.

Using the Bakerloo to reach the City must have a slightly slower
journey time, but the disbenefit for those travelling to the City is
probably well offset by the money saved from not running the
Silverlink services.

You're not proposing reinvesting that money to help those people,
though? You want to take the resources away from the people of
Bakerland (or Watfordland, or Brent D. C. or whatever you want to call
it) and reallocate them to the citizens of North London Linia. Not
that this is necessarily a bad thing, of course; greatest need and all
that.

I'm working on TfL's ideas - TfL think there is an oversupply of service
between Wealdstone and Queen's Park, and that the money that could be
saved by reducing the service there could be redistributed to the NLL
which is in more need. I'm assuming that they've done their homework and
that the DfT is happy with it - however, I don't have the hard facts.

No, fair enough, that wasn't a criticism.

I am going to stop trying to invent placenames based on railway lines now.

Metroland seemed to work!

True. Maybe Ken's planning to rebrand the swath of Brent around the line
as Bakerland and regenerate it. After all, he's a Brentish man himself.

If the Bakerloo were cut back instead of Silverlink, then everyone
wishing to reach anywhere not in the immediate vicinity of Euston will
have to change to the Underground - but if the Bakerloo provides the
sole service, then only passengers travelling to the City have to change
- and they had to anyway.

Unless they want to go to Euston or somewhere on the Northern line,
which i think a lot do.

Let's do a passenger survey! Volunteers please...

I'm going to email LTUC and get them to do it.

tom

--
Our only chance for survival is better engineering. -- James Dyson

It was a dark and stormy night when Tom Anderson
wrote in article
i...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Marratxi wrote:


However, I don't think that is the cause. The train which arrives at
Watford Junction is hardly ever the one which then sets off back to
Euston.

Since when was Heraclitus in charge of Silverlink, then? 8)

*frenzied applause*
--
Grebbsy McLaren

"Grebbsy McLaren" wrote in message
...
It was a dark and stormy night when Tom Anderson
wrote in article
i...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Marratxi wrote:

However, I don't think that is the cause. The train which arrives at
Watford Junction is hardly ever the one which then sets off back to
Euston.
Since when was Heraclitus in charge of Silverlink, then? 8)
*frenzied applause*
--
Groan !!
Baz ;-)

2) If the Metro service were entirely self-contained, and the extra
stock was available, then 12tph would be feasible (as witnessed at
Moorgate in the peaks, and that's with just *two* platforms).

And that's nothing compared to Brixton, which (IIRC) has the same
layout and handles 30tph in the peaks.