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Information about Route 187
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:45:53 +0100, Matthew P Jones
wrote: I have found it very difficult using the TFL web site to work out exactly where bus routes go. Well these sites are more for enthusiasts but they have loads of information and timetables. I use them in preference to the TfL website and its rather silly journey planner. www.londonbusroutes.net for route details, changes etc www.busmap.co.uk for a downloadable London wide bus map or you can buy one. I think I have worked out that I could use bus route 187 to go from near Finchley Road station to near Queens Park station. yep that bus links those 2 places. The other alternative would be a 31 from Swiss Cottage to Carlton Vale plus a short walk. This may be out of your way but the 31 is very frequent although also very busy. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Information about Route 187
In reply to news post, which Paul Corfield wrote
on Sun, 13 Jul 2003 - On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:45:53 +0100, Matthew P Jones wrote: I have found it very difficult using the TFL web site to work out exactly where bus routes go. Well these sites are more for enthusiasts but they have loads of information and timetables. I use them in preference to the TfL website and its rather silly journey planner. www.londonbusroutes.net for route details, changes etc www.busmap.co.uk for a downloadable London wide bus map or you can buy one. I think I have worked out that I could use bus route 187 to go from near Finchley Road station to near Queens Park station. yep that bus links those 2 places. The other alternative would be a 31 from Swiss Cottage to Carlton Vale plus a short walk. This may be out of your way but the 31 is very frequent although also very busy. Thanks for all replies. Am coming in from Amersham, usually go into Marylebone and out on the Bakerloo, but the closure of Bakerloo tube in the mornings is going to cause delay, so am looking for alternatives. The Met trains take longer, but would I save by not going into central London?. I have used the North London Line from Finchley Rd & Frognal (or West Hampstead) down to Brondesbury Park, but this service is every 15 minutes and if the connections are not right I can end up with quite a wait. The South Hampstead option offers trains every 20 minutes, again I could be in for a long wait. I was hoping busses would be more frequent, I will have a look at the 31 -- Matthew P Jones - www.amersham.org.uk My view of the Metropolitan Line www.metroland.org.uk - actually I like it Don't reply to it will not be read You can reply to knap AT Nildram dot co dot uk |
Information about Route 187
Steve Naïve writes
Just had another thought - combine the 187 and the 31 to make a 328. I would have thought that using the general principle of Busmaths; if you combine a 187 & a 31, you should get a 218 and not a 328? Is this an example of the Brondesbury Bus-Bunching Co-efficient? I'll get me coat... -- Dave |
Information about Route 187
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:45:53 +0100, Matthew P Jones wrote: I have found it very difficult using the TFL web site to work out exactly where bus routes go. Well these sites are more for enthusiasts but they have loads of information and timetables. I use them in preference to the TfL website and its rather silly journey planner. www.londonbusroutes.net for route details, changes etc www.busmap.co.uk for a downloadable London wide bus map or you can buy one. What's silly about the TfL Journey Planner? It's certainly more useful than a bus map or a set of route timetables for finding the quickest route from A to B. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Information about Route 187
In reply to news post, which Paul Corfield wrote
on Mon, 14 Jul 2003 - On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:29:03 GMT, "Richard J." wrote: What's silly about the TfL Journey Planner? It's certainly more useful than a bus map or a set of route timetables for finding the quickest route from A to B. I find the whole thing impenetrable. It is user unfriendly - it took over 10 attempts to identify the system's name for my local stop. Why should I have to go to that sort of trouble? The same issue applies to many stops across London where the road name or colloquial name for a given location is not recognised by the planner even though the bus timetable and bus blinds do show the name! The routes it plots are often not very sensible IMO, of course. I don't think I'd make the effort to use it if I was a motorist and contemplating using public transport given how cumbersome it is to use. The timetables are difficult to access and often wrong. I have raised this with TfL btw. Other sources of easy to use information were also removed from the TfL website when the Jny Planner was introduced and I consider that to be a retrograde step as well considering the base information is produced for other purposes - also raised with TfL. I found it hard to use. I was looking for a route, but did not know the area so had many many goes at trying to find what I wanted. For buses they used to have route maps which I found very useful, the "spider" maps are not very easy to understand. -- Matthew P Jones - www.amersham.org.uk My view of the Metropolitan Line www.metroland.org.uk - actually I like it Don't reply to it will not be read You can reply to knap AT Nildram dot co dot uk |
Information about Route 187
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:03:15 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: [stop names in TfL jny planner] AFAIK the names used on the JP are the same as those displayed on the bus stops. If you don't know the name for the stop, you can always enter the road name as an address. Well yes I worked out that I can put my address in. What it then does is tell me to walk (up hill) to Walthamstow Central when I can quite easily get a bus to another local tube station. I cannot force the system to offer me the local bus option. Also why I do need to learn the name of my local bus stop? If I was a car driver with no knowledge of buses but had to make use of one I'd be pretty unimpressed with a journey planner that expects me to know the terminology that TfL employ rather than the name of the road the stop is on. The thinking behind a system that works in that sort of fashion is somewhat customer unfriendly and must be designed and tested by people who obviously don't use the transport system. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Information about Route 187
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message ... On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:03:15 GMT, "Richard J." wrote: [stop names in TfL jny planner] AFAIK the names used on the JP are the same as those displayed on the bus stops. If you don't know the name for the stop, you can always enter the road name as an address. Well yes I worked out that I can put my address in. What it then does is tell me to walk (up hill) to Walthamstow Central when I can quite easily get a bus to another local tube station. I cannot force the system to offer me the local bus option. Also why I do need to learn the name of my local bus stop? If I was a car driver with no knowledge of buses but had to make use of one I'd be pretty unimpressed with a journey planner that expects me to know the terminology that TfL employ rather than the name of the road the stop is on. But that was the point of my previous post. You *can* just enter the name of the road the stop is on (as an address). It will probably ask you where on the road you mean, e.g. junction with road X or road Y or whatever. You can also force it to offer the bus option by unticking the boxes for Underground and National Rail under More Options. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Information about Route 187
In message , Paul Corfield
writes It is user unfriendly - it took over 10 attempts to identify the system's name for my local stop. Why should I have to go to that sort of trouble? Why not just enter your postcode? -- CJG |
Information about Route 187
If you can get a 31 you can get off at Kilburn Park and it is one stop to
Queens Park (if you were wishing to go on from Queens Park you can either stay on the Bakerloo or change to silverlink). Incidentally, regarding comments on TfL, I have found their route planners quite handy, eg, on New Year's Eve, they came up with routes I hadn't thought of by combining stations and all night bus routes, having the times etc. More recently when I started my journey plan from my own road, it came up with intersections to specify, quite useful as I'm on a long road without buses, and proximity to nearby bus routes depends whereabouts on my road you start. Now if you were to ask my opinion on the tube site, which I've just tried for information on freedom pass limits (couldn't even find "freedom pass" with a search, and their "FAQs" page provided no answers), I'd say "silly" was a euphemism. |
Information about Route 187
"CharlesPottins" wrote in message ... Now if you were to ask my opinion on the tube site, which I've just tried for information on freedom pass limits (couldn't even find "freedom pass" with a search, and their "FAQs" page provided no answers), I'd say "silly" was a euphemism. Freedom Passes are issued by London Boroughs (or by post offices on their behalf), not by LU. For information, see http://www.freedompass.org/info.html. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Information about Route 187
Robert Woolley writes
Now if you were to ask my opinion on the tube site, which I've just tried for information on freedom pass limits (couldn't even find "freedom pass" with a search, and their "FAQs" page provided no answers), I'd say "silly" was a euphemism. Correct me if this wrong, but isn't Freedom Pass managed by the boroughs - TfL merely accept it? Indeed you are correct. (And another point for the previous poster to note; as LU was separate from TfL until this week, the website was also managed separately. So any flaws with the www.thetube.com website cannot immediately be blamed on TfL.) -- Dave |
Spider maps (was Information about Route 187)
"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
... In article , John Rowland writes For buses they used to have route maps which I found very useful, the "spider" maps are not very easy to understand. That's because they have been quickly and cheaply produced. A spider map can be very clear if it has a lot of manpower put into designing it. What's wrong with the present set of spider maps? They serve very well for the purpose I put them to: determining *which* bus will take me directly to where I'm going. I am surprised that anyone thinks that. Just tonight I noticed that the spider map at Waterloo has Clapham Junction directly "south" of Waterloo, and I can't imagine anyone looking for it there. Of course you can look up Clapham Junction in the destination list and it will tell you which bus to get, thus obviating the need for the map. The one thing for which a map would be handy would be if you wanted to go some place for which there was no direct route, and you wanted to work out which route goes near to your destination, but the maps are too ungeographical to make that easy (or even possible). I think spider maps are largely a psychological trick on a dumb public, who think that "it looks a bit like a tube map so it must be progress". However, they could work if the manpower was put into making them more geographical, but then again, why not just have a section of the geographical bus map on which all routes from here have their roads highlighted and their numbers ringed? It would not only help you plan changes: it would also let you know which bus from here to there is likely to be the quickest. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Spider maps (was Information about Route 187)
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... "Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message ... In article , John Rowland writes For buses they used to have route maps which I found very useful, the "spider" maps are not very easy to understand. That's because they have been quickly and cheaply produced. A spider map can be very clear if it has a lot of manpower put into designing it. What's wrong with the present set of spider maps? They serve very well for the purpose I put them to: determining *which* bus will take me directly to where I'm going. I am surprised that anyone thinks that. Just tonight I noticed that the spider map at Waterloo has Clapham Junction directly "south" of Waterloo, and I can't imagine anyone looking for it there. Of course you can look up Clapham Junction in the destination list and it will tell you which bus to get, thus obviating the need for the map. The one thing for which a map would be handy would be if you wanted to go some place for which there was no direct route, and you wanted to work out which route goes near to your destination, but the maps are too ungeographical to make that easy (or even possible). I think spider maps are largely a psychological trick on a dumb public, who think that "it looks a bit like a tube map so it must be progress". However, they could work if the manpower was put into making them more geographical, but then again, why not just have a section of the geographical bus map on which all routes from here have their roads highlighted and their numbers ringed? It would not only help you plan changes: it would also let you know which bus from here to there is likely to be the quickest. The other problem with spider maps is if where you want to get to a certain place but don't know the area, for instance, I know I need to get to "Blenkinsop Rd" - on the old type map, I find Blenkinsop Rd, which I see is the next road along from Harris Avenue a stop served by buses 67a and 89d that run along Tompkinson Street. I also see that bus 89d serves West Neasden Underground station, which is on the Coronation Line, the same line as my home station Turnpike Green. I therefore know from one quick and easy look-up that to get to my destination I take a train from Turnpike Green to West Neasden, then a 89d bus to Harris Avenue and complete my journey with a short walk. On a spider map, Blenkinsop Rd is not metioned at all so I'm bolloxed from the off. -- Cheers, Steve. If The Good Lord had meant for us to be fiscally prudent, He would not have given us the platinum credit card... Change colour to PC Plod's lights to reply. |
Spider maps (was Information about Route 187)
Steve Dulieu writes
The other problem with spider maps is if where you want to get to a certain place but don't know the area, for instance, I know I need to get to "Blenkinsop Rd" - on the old type map, I find Blenkinsop Rd, which I see is the next road along from Harris Avenue a stop served by buses 67a and 89d that run along Tompkinson Street. I also see that bus 89d serves West Neasden Underground station, which is on the Coronation Line, the same line as my home station Turnpike Green. I therefore know from one quick and easy look-up that to get to my destination I take a train from Turnpike Green to West Neasden, then a 89d bus to Harris Avenue and complete my journey with a short walk. On a spider map, Blenkinsop Rd is not metioned at all so I'm bolloxed from the off. One could say the same about the tube map. If travelling from Hangar Lane to Paddington, if you don't know that Lancaster Gate is just around the corner from Paddington, then you're 'bolloxed from the off'. I thought the point of the spider maps was they were to be used in addition to, not instead of the, the geographic maps. Each has their good and points; the spider maps are very good at letting you quickly see the places you can travel to directly from that stop - something that's quite hard to show on a conventional map. -- Dave |
Spider maps (was Information about Route 187)
"Dave" wrote in message
... the spider maps are very good at letting you quickly see the places you can travel to directly from that stop Are you referring to the diagrams at the top of the timetables at certain central London bus stops? The "spider maps" show every bus from the neighbourhood, not from the stop. Spider maps need to be studied at great length before you can divine anything from them. The alphabetical list of places beneath them is a much better source of information, and I think it includes every place named on the spider map (except minor places which are very near). Since the spider maps are ungeographical, they tell you nothing about any point which is not named. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Spider maps (was Information about Route 187)
In message , Steve
Dulieu writes The other problem with spider maps is if where you want to get to a certain place but don't know the area, for instance, I know I need to get to "Blenkinsop Rd" - on the old type map, I find Blenkinsop Rd, which I see is the next road along from Harris Avenue a stop served by buses 67a and 89d that run along Tompkinson Street. I also see that bus 89d serves West Neasden Underground station, which is on the Coronation Line, the same line as my home station Turnpike Green. I therefore know from one quick and easy look-up that to get to my destination I take a train from Turnpike Green to West Neasden, then a 89d bus to Harris Avenue and complete my journey with a short walk. On a spider map, Blenkinsop Rd is not metioned at all so I'm bolloxed from the off. So which bit of London exactly do you live in again?? I thought you were lost at Green Park, now I know you have just lost it :-) -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
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