no, that's like saying that hydrochloric acid is a better confectionary
because it contains zero sugar

lonelytraveller wrote:
no, that's like saying that hydrochloric acid is a better
confectionary
because it contains zero sugar

I presume you were replying to my post (please include some context in
future)

How precisely is comparing two buses like comparing HCl to
confectionary?

wrote:
... The
advertisers said modern buses were more environmentally friendly
because they used greener fuels and were more fuel-efficient.

This claim apparently wasn't in the advertisements, and just as well,
because it's clearly tosh.

Bendy buses weigh about twice as much as Routemasters. Even if the
engines are better, it's going to take twice as much energy to
accelerate them.

Per seat, RMs win by even more. Per passenger, crush-loaded, the
bendis probably only use slightly more fuel than RMs.

They also
maintained that bendy buses were safer than Routemasters.

For occupants, maybe - fewer falls from platforms. The jury's still
out on their effects on cyclists and motorcyclists.

Colin McKenzie

asdf wrote to uk.transport.london on Fri, 13 May 2005:

I agree. An LED display would have to be *very* high resolution to
even approach the legibility of a blind.

All the same, there is no reason not to have the technology _inside_ the
buses. But then, London Transport and its successors always have been
several years behind the times - the sign which lights up when someone
presses the bell to request the next stop was in use in buses in Paris
in the early 1970s, and probably before, while they did not come into
use in London until the 1980s (I remember thinking "What a good idea!"
when I first saw the signs in Paris buses). And advertising/display
screens are only just coming into a few London buses now - they've been
in Paris ones for several years!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 3 April 2005

Neil Williams wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2005 00:19:25 -0000, (Mark Brader) wrote:


Yes, an LED display is programmable and therefore wins on cost and
flexibility when it has to be changed. And multiple displays on
the same bus or train can all be made to change at once. But the
roller blind still wins hands down in terms of legibility, it seems
to me, and that's worth quite a bit.


I disagree - I find LEDs (as distinct from flipdot displays) far
easier to read from a distance than blinds due to the very high
contrast. Because they are operationally easier, as well, it is more
likely that they will be set correctly, which given that nobody is
pefect is a significant benefit.

I very rarely see an incorrectly-set blind. Sometimes buses stop short
of the terminus listed, but in those cases it seems to be a decision
taken whilst I am already on board, so I can't see when the destination
changes - in that case, an internal LED would be useful.

I see little legibility difference between the high-contrast LEDs in use
in some cities, and the blinds used in London. However, I find that
operators tend to over-use the external LEDs, having them display
alternate information (e.g. terminus / intermediate stops), which I
think is extremely irritating - you have to stare at the display for
longer as a bus approaches to take in all the information. In that
respect, I find TfL blinds superior. I appreciate that some people may
prefer the possibility of "extra" information on the LEDs, but I just
find it annoying.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

The bendies seem to do a perfectly good job of setting fire to
themselves - they don't need us to intervene ......

Vastly superior LED technology?

Like when displays are invisible in bright sunlight, or the diodes burn
out (as on the Central Line trains) and in all cases the letters and
numerals are depicted in a clumsy, angular script? (And never mind the
fact that they often don't show up on photographs either.)

Roll-on (literally) roller blinds, and while we're at it let's return
to the proper colours of black and WHITE too!

Neil Williams wrote:


It would be nice if it was used to announce the next stop - I've only
heard this done once. It would also have been better if TfL had moved
on from their archaic insistence on the use of roller blinds, when the
rest of the country has moved onto the vastly superior LED technology,
and installed an integrated passenger information system with internal
LEDs showing next stop and route information.

The technology exists, and has done for *many* years. It's not even
that expensive, and it is well-proven.

Neil


There was a bendy demonstrator on the 436 earlier this week. It looked
just like every other bus on the route except it had a very bright
orange LED destination display. I can't recall whether it listed
intermediate places like the roller blinds do, but what it did show was
clear and quite eye-catching.

Cheers,

Steve

On Fri, 13 May 2005 11:12:39 +0100, Mrs Redboots
wrote:


when I first saw the signs in Paris buses). And advertising/display
screens are only just coming into a few London buses now - they've been
in Paris ones for several years!

You seem to be assuming that's a good thing. They had them years ago
in Sheffield, but nobody learned the lesson, it seems.

On Fri, 13 May 2005 12:11:34 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote:

I see little legibility difference between the high-contrast LEDs in use
in some cities, and the blinds used in London. However, I find that
operators tend to over-use the external LEDs, having them display
alternate information (e.g. terminus / intermediate stops), which I
think is extremely irritating - you have to stare at the display for
longer as a bus approaches to take in all the information.

This was certainly the case in Leeds a few years ago (they may have
changed it since). The buses run by First had a dot matrix display up
front (I think it was reflective/mechanical, rather than LEDs), but
rather than remain static with the number/destination, they changed to
show the conceit of which "line" (i.e. basic route, but with obvious
variations) it was, as well. It was not unusual to have the wait
almost until the last minute to work out exactly what number an
approaching bus actually was.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
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