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Epping-Ongar news?
I heard yesterday that some kind of agreement had just been reached
about re-opening the Epping-Ongar line, and that there was some rolling stock movement (Woodford to Ongar?) in relation to this. Does anyone know anything further about this? Neither EOR nor ORPS have anything about this on their websites... Christopher -- Christopher Allen . + . -===""===- c==== . email: * . . \ \____}} WWW: http://ruah.dyndns.org/~cpcallen/ . * @====-' . snail: Studio 10, 319 Archway Rd. London N6 5AA U.K. . * |
Epping-Ongar news?
What is the purpose of the Ongar line? Ongar cannot be a very
important traffic objective. Harlow would pull in far more traffic, if pulling in traffic is the objective! Michael Bell In article , Christopher Allen wrote: I heard yesterday that some kind of agreement had just been reached about re-opening the Epping-Ongar line, and that there was some rolling stock movement (Woodford to Ongar?) in relation to this. Does anyone know anything further about this? Neither EOR nor ORPS have anything about this on their websites... Christopher -- |
Epping-Ongar news?
Michael Bell wrote in message ...
What is the purpose of the Ongar line? Ongar cannot be a very important traffic objective. Harlow would pull in far more traffic, if pulling in traffic is the objective! Michael Bell In article , Christopher Allen wrote: I heard yesterday that some kind of agreement had just been reached about re-opening the Epping-Ongar line, and that there was some rolling stock movement (Woodford to Ongar?) in relation to this. Does anyone know anything further about this? Neither EOR nor ORPS have anything about this on their websites... The local paper http://www.ongarguardian.co.uk ran this last week: Guided busway plan is 'mad' says MP By David Jackman THE possibility of a 'guided busway' along part of the old Epping-Ongar railway line has been branded a "mad" plan by Epping Forest MP Eleanor Laing. Various suggestions about what form the busway would take have been raised with the Guardian, with suggestions including buses running along a concreted Central Line track or a London Docklands Light Railway-type service between Epping and North Weald. But any use of part of the former Epping-Ongar line for such a purpose has been slammed by Mrs Laing. The guided busway is included in the Harlow Options Study report detailing various schemes for growth in and around Harlow. It forms part of a scheme that would see high density housing (up to 2,300 homes) and an employment site at North Weald served by new public transport linking the Central Line at Epping to Harlow town centre via the former North Weald Station. The report states this "would probably" be achieved with the guided busway – a scheme that Mrs Laing says would mean the end of any hope of a full Epping-Ongar line service ever being reinstated. Mrs Laing said: "I think it's a totally pie in the sky, mad plan." She added: "The consultants who made this proposal don't know that we've fought for years to preserve the Epping-Ongar part of the Central Line so that when the time comes, and it looks now as if it will quite soon, that part of the Central Line can be reinstated. "I think it would mean that the Epping-Ongar line would never run again and that's what we have fought to prevent." She added: "Many of the proposals that were put to the stakeholders meeting have not been thought out." Paul White, of Harlow Options Study consultants Atkins Design Environment and Engineering, said: "What we're saying is that we envisage a public transport link of some description which would link the Central Line in Epping and North Weald to Harlow. "Our view is that it would be a dedicated busway, but I know that there are other interested parties that envisaged possibly light rail or heavy rail. Becasue there is the disused part of the Central Line we feel it would make sense to use that and have new infrastructure to Harlow." He said the issue was a matter for much more detailed study before final proposals were drawn up. Commenting on the busway reference in the report, a district council spokesman said: "The suggestions are conceptual at this stage and do not say exactly how such a guided busway would operate. "Transport infrastructure is obviously a major consideration and we would need to see much more detail in the near future." |
Epping-Ongar news?
"umpston" wrote in message om... Guided busway plan is 'mad' says MP That's promising, then. :-) -- Brian "Stuck down a hole, in the fog, in the middle of the night, with an owl." |
Epping-Ongar news?
In message , Boltar
writes Guided busways have hardly ever been a success wherever they've been tried. They're a solution designed by a commitee. "We want something that follows a set route but we like busses , I know , lets have a guided bus!". Duh. If you want a guided vehicle have a railway , rail vehicles are more efficient in energy use , can carry FAR more people than any bus and are more reliable. If you want a bus put it on a road , you don't need to build a special road with side barriers (which is all a busway is) for it. I wonder how long after this road .. sorry "busway" is built, it would take for some politician eager to coin in the motorist vote to say "Hey , why don't we let cars use this road too?" But aren't guided bus ways a lot cheaper to build and more reliable? And guided bus ways can become normal buses when they get to the end of the busway? -- CJG |
Epping-Ongar news?
CJG writes
But aren't guided bus ways a lot cheaper to build and more reliable? Of course, that's why there are guided busways in every town and city across the nation. -- Dave |
Epping-Ongar news?
CJG wrote in message ...
But aren't guided bus ways a lot cheaper to build and more reliable? And guided bus ways can become normal buses when they get to the end of the busway? Depends what you mean by reliable. Sure if you have a pothole in the busway it probably won't bring the whole service to a halt like a broken rail would but on the other hand roads seem to disintegrate far quicker than rail so more maintenance would ultimately be needed and given that by design a bus can't run around the roadworks on a busway since its held in place by the guiderails, any maintenance will force closure of the busway just as on a railway. Busways are pointless. If you want a road just build a road , not some poor facsimile of a railway. B2003 |
Epping-Ongar news?
Out in Huntingdonshire, a similar process is going on with the former
Huntingdon to Cambridge railway trackbed. The consultation is cosmetic and hilarious inasmuch as the word "bus" is conspicuously absent from the publicity, given Joe/Jill Public's abhorrence of all things bus-like. "High quality transit service" is the preferred euphemism. "Brian Watson" wrote in message ... "umpston" wrote in message om... Guided busway plan is 'mad' says MP That's promising, then. :-) |
Epping-Ongar news?
In article , Clive D. W. Feather
writes [Personal note: the MGB will *increase* the time it takes the bus to get from my village to Cambridge. If rail services were reinstated on the line I could eliminate 80% of the road part of my commute and replace them with rail, very possibly without altering the total travel time.] While I don't doubt the truth of what you say for a minute, Clive *and* while being deeply sceptical of the advantages of guided buses [1], how does the Cambridgeshire system actually increase a particular journey? [1] The only place I can see guided bus technology being of use is in bus *stations*, to be honest, for ensuring flush boarding and coping with often restricted areas. -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Epping-Ongar news?
In article , Ian Jelf
writes While I don't doubt the truth of what you say for a minute, Clive *and* while being deeply sceptical of the advantages of guided buses [1], how does the Cambridgeshire system actually increase a particular journey? Crude map: +---------busway--------+ | | | | C D | | | | +-----A-----+-----B-----+ | | V X V is the village where I live, X is the central Cambridge area. Road A is a 3 lane each way dual carriageway. Road B has a bus lane in the direction that sees congestion. Road C is a narrow country lane. Road D is a busy road where adding a bus lane involves major political risk. In addition, the busway route is about twice the length, or more, of the present route. It seems likely that the presence of the busway will mean that all routes around here are altered, and that the bus to Cambridge will be diverted to it. [1] The only place I can see guided bus technology being of use is in bus *stations*, to be honest, for ensuring flush boarding and coping with often restricted areas. Apparently it works well in Adelaide because of the layout of things: Adelaide: Cambridge: Wide streets in central Narrow congested streets in area, no busway centre Congested suburbs bypassed Congested roads in suburbs by busway Quiet roads in countryside Quiet countryside roads bypassed by busway -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Epping-Ongar news?
In article , Dave
writes I was in Adelaide earlier this year and had no idea they have guided busways. If I'd known, I'd have had a look - as I've never seen one before. Are they what Adelaide Metro call the 'O-Bahn Bus Routes'? I believe so, yes. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Epping-Ongar news?
In article , Dave
writes Clive D. W. Feather writes [1] The only place I can see guided bus technology being of use is in bus *stations*, to be honest, for ensuring flush boarding and coping with often restricted areas. Apparently it works well in Adelaide because of the layout of things: [...] I was in Adelaide earlier this year and had no idea they have guided busways. If I'd known, I'd have had a look - as I've never seen one before. Are they what Adelaide Metro call the 'O-Bahn Bus Routes'? Yes, from the City Centre to Tea Tree Plaza. City Centre penetration isn't brilliant and signposting and publicity for public transport was, I thought, worse in Adelaide than any other Australian city I've ever visited. (It would help if the Glenelg trams ran further North to connect with more other city transport, including the O-Bahn to Tea Tree Plaza. Apparently they once did.) I did have a few rides on the 1920s Glenelg tram (not a museum piece, but a working part of the city's transport network). Yes, great, isn't it? ;-) -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Epping-Ongar news?
In article , Clive D. W. Feather
writes In article , Ian Jelf writes While I don't doubt the truth of what you say for a minute, Clive *and* while being deeply sceptical of the advantages of guided buses [1], how does the Cambridgeshire system actually increase a particular journey? Crude map: Snipped clear explanation It seems likely that the presence of the busway will mean that all routes around here are altered, and that the bus to Cambridge will be diverted to it. Thanks, Clive. I see what you mean. [1] The only place I can see guided bus technology being of use is in bus *stations*, to be honest, for ensuring flush boarding and coping with often restricted areas. I was in Adelaide in 2001 and rode the Guided busway, from the City Centre to Tea Tree Plaza several times to see "how well it worked". (As a Brummie, I have memories of our ill-fates "Tracline" guided busway here in the 1980s. The Adelaide one works better, principally because it's longer. Apparently it works well in Adelaide because of the layout of things: Adelaide: Cambridge: Wide streets in central Narrow congested streets in area, no busway centre Ys, although Adelaide dies indeed suffer from central area congestion which led to bunching on the Busway in the peak hours. Congested suburbs bypassed Congested roads in suburbs by busway But the busway *did* miss some inner suburban housing areas on its way to the further flung suburbs. Of course, this could be a Good Thing or a Bad Thing, depending on where you lived! Quiet roads in countryside Quiet countryside roads bypassed by busway The Adelaide Busway doesn't really get to anything I'd call "countryside" (although it's certainly a beautiful green city). But the idea of busways serving anything like English "countryside", as is apparently suggested in Cambridge, seems to me to be bordering on lunacy. In fact, it rather confirms to me a suspicion I've always had about Busways: that they're a solution in search of a problem. Is there an online map of the Cambridge proposals anywhere? And isn't there something almost as rural running in the outer suburbs of Ipswich? -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Epping-Ongar news?
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Epping-Ongar news?
In article ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes In article , (Ian Jelf) wrote: Is there an online map of the Cambridge proposals anywhere? And isn't there something almost as rural running in the outer suburbs of Ipswich? I think it's on www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk somewhere. Found it; many thanks, Colin. It's at: http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/sub...ptrans/rts.jpg -- Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for London & the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Guided Bus [was: Epping-Ongar news?]
"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message ... In article , (Ian Jelf) wrote: Is there an online map of the Cambridge proposals anywhere? And isn't there something almost as rural running in the outer suburbs of Ipswich? I think it's on www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk somewhere. Crossposted to uk.local.east-anglia for those around Ipswich to comment on whether such a scheme exists. -- Brian "This isn't the longest day of the year: it just feels like it" |
Epping-Ongar news?
In article , Ian Jelf
writes Is there an online map of the Cambridge proposals anywhere? http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/sub...ptrans/rts.jpg That's it. From Science Park to just beyond Swavesey is an existing rail line (though mothballed; the track is still there). The rest of the way to St.Ives is trackbed but no track. The "local service" in Longstanton appears to be a new route; it's unclear whether this is on an existing road (in which case, what happens to the cars?) or takes over new land and, if so, how it gets through the houses. From Station to Trumpington is existing trackbed that's been disused for 30 years or more. The "on-street section" to Addenbrookes Hospital uses a non-existent street (so why is it not guideway as well?). The on-street section connecting the two uses roads that are either already full of traffic, or narrow, or both. The cam.transport contingent are, um, skeptical about their ability to carry the traffic. You should also look at: http://www.davros.org/rail/diagrams/camtrams.html I suppose I should add the MGB to it. -- Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home: Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address |
Guided Bus [was: Epping-Ongar news?]
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Guided Bus [was: Epping-Ongar news?]
In uk.local.east-anglia Robin May wrote:
wrote the following in: The route 66 bus from Ipswich station to Martlesham has a short section in one of the Ipswich suburbs where it runs between guides and thus the driver doesn't have to steer. Is this what the question was about? How do these guides work? There are a couple of little wheels either side at the front of the bus, these wheels are horizontal with the spindles vertical. I guess they're around 9" diameter and a foot or so from the ground. These run against a raised guide either side of the track the bus runs along. Presumably there's a servo system that detects pressure on the wheels and thus steers the bus. -- Chris Green ) |
Guided Bus [was: Epping-Ongar news?]
wrote in message
... In uk.local.east-anglia Robin May wrote: wrote the following in: The route 66 bus from Ipswich station to Martlesham has a short section in one of the Ipswich suburbs where it runs between guides and thus the driver doesn't have to steer. Is this what the question was about? How do these guides work? There are a couple of little wheels either side at the front of the bus, these wheels are horizontal with the spindles vertical. I guess they're around 9" diameter and a foot or so from the ground. These run against a raised guide either side of the track the bus runs along. Presumably there's a servo system that detects pressure on the wheels and thus steers the bus. Do they look anything like those in like the guidewheel shown in the second photo at http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/49/article1.html (you'll need to scroll down a bit) ? That photo is taken from Cambridgeshire County Council's own publicity. It would be useful to know whether the Ipswich scheme is similar to the one proposed for Cambridgeshire PaulO |
Guided Bus [was: Epping-Ongar news?]
In uk.local.east-anglia Paul Oter wrote:
wrote in message ... In uk.local.east-anglia Robin May wrote: wrote the following in: The route 66 bus from Ipswich station to Martlesham has a short section in one of the Ipswich suburbs where it runs between guides and thus the driver doesn't have to steer. Is this what the question was about? How do these guides work? There are a couple of little wheels either side at the front of the bus, these wheels are horizontal with the spindles vertical. I guess they're around 9" diameter and a foot or so from the ground. These run against a raised guide either side of the track the bus runs along. Presumably there's a servo system that detects pressure on the wheels and thus steers the bus. Do they look anything like those in like the guidewheel shown in the second photo at http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/49/article1.html (you'll need to scroll down a bit) ? That photo is taken from Cambridgeshire County Council's own publicity. It would be useful to know whether the Ipswich scheme is similar to the one proposed for Cambridgeshire Yes, they look pretty similar to me. N.B. this is all from memory, I'm not a regular user of the route 66 bus. Hey, a quick search turned up the following pictu- http://www.hitchams.suffolk.sch.uk/t.../jr/page3.html I'm sure more dilligent searching would turn up a whole lot more about the route 66, it's been a test bed for all sorts of hi tech ideas. -- Chris Green ) |
Guided Bus [was: Epping-Ongar news?]
In uk.local.east-anglia "Steve Naïve" wrote:
wrote in Yes, they look pretty similar to me. N.B. this is all from memory, I'm not a regular user of the route 66 bus. Hey, a quick search turned up the following pictu- http://www.hitchams.suffolk.sch.uk/t.../jr/page3.html I'm sure more dilligent searching would turn up a whole lot more about the route 66, it's been a test bed for all sorts of hi tech ideas. Is this because the BT Martelsham labs are close by, or is that just coincidence? I think there was some input from BT in the early days but there's no direct involvement now as far as I know. -- Chris Green ) |
Guided Bus [was: Epping-Ongar news?]
Paul Oter wrote:
[...] It would be useful to know whether the Ipswich scheme is similar to the one proposed for Cambridgeshire I don't think the Ipswich one concreted over existing rail lines or runs outside its guides down one of the busiest roads... the Camb one looks totally and utterly mad. Wouldn't light rail be more effective? FU to east-anglia only. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. |
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