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Bromley North Line
Is the line between Bromley North & Grove Park single or double Track?
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Bromley North Line
I believe it's double track up until just after Sundridge Park, where
the line then goes single until the double platform at Bromley North... That is all I can remember of it. I've a quail somewhere but I can't really find it right now. |
Bromley North Line
"Joe" wrote in message ups.com... Is the line between Bromley North & Grove Park single or double Track? AFAIK it is still double track and fully signalled, even though there's normally only one train on the branch. Peter |
Bromley North Line
AFAIK it is still double track and fully signalled, even though there's
normally only one train on the branch. Yea, that's why I asked. I was looking at the LDBs and all the trains seem to be shuttles. What's the reason for running it as a shuttle, anyone know? Congestion on the MainLine & other services couldnt be cutBack? |
Bromley North Line
"Joe" wrote in message oups.com... AFAIK it is still double track and fully signalled, even though there's normally only one train on the branch. Yea, that's why I asked. I was looking at the LDBs and all the trains seem to be shuttles. What's the reason for running it as a shuttle, anyone know? Congestion on the MainLine & other services couldnt be cutBack? When there were through trains they were much more lightly loaded than other Charing Cross and Cannon Street services, and of course running a train to Bromley North takes a path away from another route. Passengers from Bromley, at least to the West End, have a faster and much more frequent service from Bromley South to Victoria. The surprising thing is that the infrastructure hasn't been reduced to a siding - as has happened to Epsom Downs, while Crystal Palace - Beckenham Junction was singled before Tramlink became definite and took over the other half of the formation. Peter |
Bromley North Line
DERWENT Bromley North Line
Wed, 25 May 2005 17:37:22 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Masson" "Joe" wrote in message roups.com... AFAIK it is still double track and fully signalled, even though there's normally only one train on the branch. Yea, that's why I asked. I was looking at the LDBs and all the trains seem to be shuttles. What's the reason for running it as a shuttle, anyone know? Congestion on the MainLine & other services couldnt be cutBack? When there were through trains they were much more lightly loaded than other Charing Cross and Cannon Street services, and of course running a train to Bromley North takes a path away from another route. Passengers from Bromley, at least to the West End, have a faster and much more frequent service from Bromley South to Victoria. The surprising thing is that the infrastructure hasn't been reduced to a siding - as has happened to Epsom Downs, while Crystal Palace - Beckenham Junction was singled before Tramlink became definite and took over the other half of the formation. Bromley North used to be used as an overnight stabling point (and possibly a day time one as well). The quail map says the platforms are 10 cars (slam) or 8 cars (networker). The time table used to have a number of trains at the ends of service with first class accomodation which were CIGs (or VEPs) going for berthing. I think there were extra sidings in the past - the bus station looks suspiciously like it's been built on railway land... PRAR -- http://www.i.am/prar/ and http://prar.fotopic.net/ As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists. NB Anti-spam measures in force - If you must email me use the Reply to address and not |
Bromley North Line
"PRAR" wrote Bromley North used to be used as an overnight stabling point (and possibly a day time one as well). The quail map says the platforms are 10 cars (slam) or 8 cars (networker). The time table used to have a number of trains at the ends of service with first class accomodation which were CIGs (or VEPs) going for berthing. I think there were extra sidings in the past - the bus station looks suspiciously like it's been built on railway land... The track layout, according to your ASCII, doesn't appear to have changed since the 1976 London Bridge resignalling, except that the connections between the branch and the Up and Down Fast south of Grove Park have been abolished, and all trains now have to run through the Branch Platform. For a few years after the resignalling there were through trains to and from Charing Cross in the Monday - Friday peaks, and these needed to pass on the branch (or in the morning peak by the Down train using the Down Fast platfrom at Grove Park while the Up used the Branch platfrom). At the time there were also occasional London Bridge to Bromley North postals (using emus with the seats turned, IIRC), so there were a few occasions when both platfroms were needed at Bromley North. Although I recall (but can't say when) a siding adjacent to platform 2 at Bromley North (if you've got the numbering right - the August 1975 MR labels the eastern platfrom as 2) this isn't shown in the track diagram in the Aug 75 MR, and a 1976 WTT doesn't show any trains going for berthing (and the last arrival at Bromley North is balanced by an ecs from there to Grove Park shed). VEPs only arrived on the South Eastern Division in about 1973, and CIGs considerably later than that. If Bill Hayles is reading this he may have more information. Peter |
Bromley North Line
I remember direct trains from Charing Cross to Bromley North in the
morning peaks in the early 1990s, but that's against the rush hour flow. So they were effectively empty stock workings anyway, like some of the current runs to Hither Green or Beckenham via Catford Bridge. The reason why these call at a couple of stations rather than just running empty may be to cover the other rush hour flow from Waterloo to London Bridge. |
Bromley North Line
"MIG" wrote in message oups.com... I remember direct trains from Charing Cross to Bromley North in the morning peaks in the early 1990s, but that's against the rush hour flow. So they were effectively empty stock workings anyway, like some of the current runs to Hither Green or Beckenham via Catford Bridge. The reason why these call at a couple of stations rather than just running empty may be to cover the other rush hour flow from Waterloo to London Bridge. I've just had another delve in the timetable archive - in 1988 there were three peak and one or two contra-peak through workings each way, the peak workings at about 40 minute intervals. As well as these, there were branch shuttles at about 10 minute intervals in the peaks. By 1991 the through trains had disappeared, but the shuttles were still at about 10 minute intervals, so there were two trains on the branch at a time. IIRC the through peak trains were reduced from 20 to 40 minute headways at the time when the Hastings line was electrified, half the paths being given up for through Charing Cross to Hastings trains. Peter |
Bromley North Line
"Joe" wrote Yea, that's why I asked. I was looking at the LDBs and all the trains seem to be shuttles. What's the reason for running it as a shuttle, anyone know? Congestion on the MainLine & other services couldnt be cutBack? The Bromley North branch also suffers from being on the "fast" side of the layout at Grove Park - a bit like Coulsdon North on the Brighton line, which closed largely, I think, as a result of the local (slow) and through (fast) lines being swapped over in the 1980's, leaving it awkwardly situated. |
Bromley North Line
On 25 May 2005 07:53:46 -0700, "Joe" wrote: Is the line between Bromley North & Grove Park single or double Track? The line is double tracked apart from Grove Park bay platform. It is fully signalled and can be placed into automatic working so that the one trains movements operatethe signals. Last year during closer of the mainline and services to Victoria via Bromley South. A Service was run Bromley North to Victoria. Life without sex just isn't life. Make love not war! |
Bromley North Line
On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:55:37 +0100, PRAR wrote:
Bromley North used to be used as an overnight stabling point (and possibly a day time one as well). The quail map says the platforms are 10 cars (slam) or 8 cars (networker). The time table used to have a number of trains at the ends of service with first class accomodation which were CIGs (or VEPs) going for berthing. I think there were extra sidings in the past - the bus station looks suspiciously like it's been built on railway land... My main knowledge of the branch was in the 1980s, when I was a guard at Grove Park. By then, the freight yard had disappeared, but it was still the railhead for Bromley's mail, and had several mail trains a day (simply normal EPB units with the seat cushions turned back!). There were the through trains, and a ten car unit was stabled between the peaks. The connection with the up and down fast was still there, and used in the evening peak. No stock was stabled overnight, but there were some interesting early morning movements. During the peaks, as well as the through trains, there were two "poppers" shuttling back and forth - all in all a busy branch. -- Bill Hayles http://www.rossrail.com |
Bromley North Line
John Salmon wrote: "Joe" wrote Yea, that's why I asked. I was looking at the LDBs and all the trains seem to be shuttles. What's the reason for running it as a shuttle, anyone know? Congestion on the MainLine & other services couldnt be cutBack? The Bromley North branch also suffers from being on the "fast" side of the layout at Grove Park - a bit like Coulsdon North on the Brighton line, which closed largely, I think, as a result of the local (slow) and through (fast) lines being swapped over in the 1980's, leaving it awkwardly situated. Coulsdon North was always off the fast (Quarry) line - the 1980s changes didn't alter tracks in that area. What they did do was rationalise the arrangements between S. Croydon & Windmill Bridge/Gloucester Rd. I thought Coulsdon N closed because Smitham (next door) could perform its functions very adequately. Mike |
Bromley North Line
"mmellor" wrote Coulsdon North was always off the fast (Quarry) line - the 1980s changes didn't alter tracks in that area. What they did do was rationalise the arrangements between S. Croydon & Windmill Bridge/Gloucester Rd. I'm not sure that's quite right. IIRC the local lines ran on the west side of the formation from Windmill Bridge Junction right through to Coulsdon North. The Quarry Lines took off from the Through Lines at Stoats Nest (just north of Coulsdon), but it was possible for trains to run into and out of Coulsdon North on the Local Lines without conflicting with trains running between the Through Lines and the Quarry Lines. I thought Coulsdon N closed because Smitham (next door) could perform its functions very adequately. When the track rationalisation was carried out, it was much easier for local trains on the Slow Lines on the east of the formation to reach Smitham than it would have been for them to get to Coulsdon North. Peter |
Bromley North Line
"mmellor" wrote Coulsdon North was always off the fast (Quarry) line Agreed. - the 1980s changes didn't alter tracks in that area. What they did do was rationalise the arrangements between S. Croydon & Windmill Bridge/Gloucester Rd. So what route (i.e. which right-hand crossovers) did fast services (in both directions) take between the Quarry lines and the former "through" platforms (4 & 5?) at East Croydon? I had assumed the move was made at Stoats Nest, but if it was actually at South Croydon, then I concede that you're right. I thought Coulsdon N closed because Smitham (next door) could perform its functions very adequately. I agree that they used that reason to justify the closure - the Smitham terminators date from that time, I think. |
Bromley North Line
"John Salmon" wrote So what route (i.e. which right-hand crossovers) did fast services (in both directions) take between the Quarry lines and the former "through" platforms (4 & 5?) at East Croydon? I had assumed the move was made at Stoats Nest, That is correct. When the layout was rationalised, one of the changes was relaying the Stoats Nest crossovers. Previously, travelling south, they ran from the old Through Lines (eastern pair) to the Quarry Lines. Afterwards they ran from the new Fast Lines (western pair) to the old line through Redhill. Peter |
Bromley North Line
Peter Masson wrote: "John Salmon" wrote So what route (i.e. which right-hand crossovers) did fast services (in both directions) take between the Quarry lines and the former "through" platforms (4 & 5?) at East Croydon? I had assumed the move was made at Stoats Nest, That is correct. When the layout was rationalised, one of the changes was relaying the Stoats Nest crossovers. Previously, travelling south, they ran from the old Through Lines (eastern pair) to the Quarry Lines. Afterwards they ran from the new Fast Lines (western pair) to the old line through Redhill. Peter Up non-stoppers went through platform 1 (the westernmost platform) at East Croydon, though. Both pairs had both fast trains and stoppers (Victoria-Coulsdon N on the western pair, Charing X-Caterham?Tattenham Corner on the eastern). Mike |
Bromley North Line
On 28 May 2005 02:47:11 -0700, "mmellor" wrote:
Up non-stoppers went through platform 1 (the westernmost platform) at East Croydon, though. Both pairs had both fast trains and stoppers (Victoria-Coulsdon N on the western pair, Charing X-Caterham?Tattenham Corner on the eastern). Is it my imagination, or were there through lines between platforms 2 and 3 (and maybe 4 and 5) in the past? -- Terry Harper Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society http://www.omnibussoc.org |
Bromley North Line
Terry Harper wrote: On 28 May 2005 02:47:11 -0700, "mmellor" wrote: Up non-stoppers went through platform 1 (the westernmost platform) at East Croydon, though. Both pairs had both fast trains and stoppers (Victoria-Coulsdon N on the western pair, Charing X-Caterham?Tattenham Corner on the eastern). Is it my imagination, or were there through lines between platforms 2 and 3 (and maybe 4 and 5) in the past? There was a non-platform road between patforms 2 & 3, but I think it was just a siding. From memory, there wasn't enough room for another track between the platform ends under the station building. Mike |
Bromley North Line
You may be interested in the pictures on this page which should answer most
of your questions! http://www.thebattens.ndonet.com/bybranch2.html "Joe" wrote in message ups.com... Is the line between Bromley North & Grove Park single or double Track? --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0522-0, 30/05/2005 Tested on: 30/05/2005 17:26:06 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Bromley North Line
"MaxB" wrote in message ... You may be interested in the pictures on this page which should answer most of your questions! http://www.thebattens.ndonet.com/bybranch2.html Thanks. I took a look at the place today. It is still possible for a train to arrive in platform 2 while another is departing from platform 1. Mostly the train uses platform 2, but the rails in platform 1 are not completely rusty and overgrown, so it is apparent that the occasional train uses it to keep the rails clean. Peter |
Bromley North Line
Yes that is correct. Platform 1 is occasionally used if 2 is occupied by a
special or, last autumn, by an unadvertised midday service from Cannon Street whilst testing/commissioning the new 5 car units. Unusually, one service was timed off platform 1 at London Bridge at 1319, exactly the same time and platform as a scheduled train! A bit confusing. MaxB "Peter Masson" wrote in message ... "MaxB" wrote in message ... You may be interested in the pictures on this page which should answer most of your questions! http://www.thebattens.ndonet.com/bybranch2.html Thanks. I took a look at the place today. It is still possible for a train to arrive in platform 2 while another is departing from platform 1. Mostly the train uses platform 2, but the rails in platform 1 are not completely rusty and overgrown, so it is apparent that the occasional train uses it to keep the rails clean. Peter --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0522-6, 01/06/2005 Tested on: 02/06/2005 09:03:50 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
Bromley North Line
Signallers at London Bridge are supposed to signal a couple of trains
in Platform one on a daily basis to assist in keeping rails rust free. On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:03:45 +0100, "MaxB" wrote: Yes that is correct. Platform 1 is occasionally used if 2 is occupied by a special or, last autumn, by an unadvertised midday service from Cannon Street whilst testing/commissioning the new 5 car units. Unusually, one service was timed off platform 1 at London Bridge at 1319, exactly the same time and platform as a scheduled train! A bit confusing. MaxB "Peter Masson" wrote in message ... "MaxB" wrote in message ... You may be interested in the pictures on this page which should answer most of your questions! http://www.thebattens.ndonet.com/bybranch2.html Thanks. I took a look at the place today. It is still possible for a train to arrive in platform 2 while another is departing from platform 1. Mostly the train uses platform 2, but the rails in platform 1 are not completely rusty and overgrown, so it is apparent that the occasional train uses it to keep the rails clean. Peter --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0522-6, 01/06/2005 Tested on: 02/06/2005 09:03:50 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Life without sex just isn't life. Make love not war! |
Bromley North Line
Lots of trains use Platform 1, but not at the same time! Do you mean P1 at
Bromley North? "Christine" wrote in message ... Signallers at London Bridge are supposed to signal a couple of trains in Platform one on a daily basis to assist in keeping rails rust free. On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:03:45 +0100, "MaxB" wrote: Yes that is correct. Platform 1 is occasionally used if 2 is occupied by a special or, last autumn, by an unadvertised midday service from Cannon Street whilst testing/commissioning the new 5 car units. Unusually, one service was timed off platform 1 at London Bridge at 1319, exactly the same time and platform as a scheduled train! A bit confusing. MaxB "Peter Masson" wrote in message ... "MaxB" wrote in message ... You may be interested in the pictures on this page which should answer most of your questions! http://www.thebattens.ndonet.com/bybranch2.html Thanks. I took a look at the place today. It is still possible for a train to arrive in platform 2 while another is departing from platform 1. Mostly the train uses platform 2, but the rails in platform 1 are not completely rusty and overgrown, so it is apparent that the occasional train uses it to keep the rails clean. Peter --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0522-6, 01/06/2005 Tested on: 02/06/2005 09:03:50 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com Life without sex just isn't life. Make love not war! --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0522-9, 02/06/2005 Tested on: 02/06/2005 15:55:00 avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
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