In message , at 10:10:21 on Fri, 27
May 2005, R.C. Payne remarked:
Like Clive, I've not heard of a recent plan; but there was a
scrap-the- circle plan a couple of years ago which seemed to entail
running Hammersmith and City services on a "loop the loop" basis:
running along the north of the Circle, round the bottom and round the
top again before exiting east.

Isn't this effectively what happens now, though? Only difference being
the number of loops before exiting stage left.

Not really. No. The H&C does about 45% of the loop, and the District
another 40%. The remaining 15% at the western end (Gloucester Rd to
Edgware Rd) isn't looped at all (the Circle is the only line that goes
from Gloucester Rd to High St Ken).
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
.uk...
In message , at 10:10:21 on Fri, 27
May 2005, R.C. Payne remarked:
Like Clive, I've not heard of a recent plan; but there was a
scrap-the- circle plan a couple of years ago which seemed to entail
running Hammersmith and City services on a "loop the loop" basis:
running along the north of the Circle, round the bottom and round the
top again before exiting east.

Isn't this effectively what happens now, though? Only difference being
the number of loops before exiting stage left.

Not really. No. The H&C does about 45% of the loop, and the District
another 40%. The remaining 15% at the western end (Gloucester Rd to
Edgware Rd) isn't looped at all (the Circle is the only line that goes
from Gloucester Rd to High St Ken).

I think what was meant was not how the lines are printed on the map, but
what happens in practice, for instance a Hammersmith Edgware Road service,
then becomes a Circle for a few times, then becomes a Barking train (as it
were). I know most H&C run as that, but are there some that do the loop in
between?

Michael

In message , at 10:15:33 on Sat,
28 May 2005, Michael Hopkins remarked:
I think what was meant was not how the lines are printed on the map, but
what happens in practice, for instance a Hammersmith Edgware Road service,
then becomes a Circle for a few times, then becomes a Barking train (as it
were). I know most H&C run as that, but are there some that do the loop in
between?

If you are saying that a train leaves Hammersmith as "H&C" and then is
re-branded "Circle" when it gets to Edgware Rd, then does a few
'circles', eventually being rebranded as "H&C" at Liverpool St and
heading off to Barking; then that's not something I'd ever noticed.

It is, however, very similar to the plan I referred to earlier.
--
Roland Perry

In article , Michael Hopkins
writes
I think what was meant was not how the lines are printed on the map, but
what happens in practice, for instance a Hammersmith Edgware Road service,
then becomes a Circle for a few times, then becomes a Barking train (as it
were). I know most H&C run as that, but are there some that do the loop in
between?

The normal arrangement is for the Circle trains (201-207 and 211-217) to
come from depot or sidings and run straight into Circle service (or
reverse direction somewhere and then circulate). Most circle
continuously all day, then go to depot or sidings, but some may turn
into H&Cs after the evening peak.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Fri, 27 May 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

ONscotland wrote:

I read that LUL are withdrawing the "Circle" line service, as it causes
far too many delays at the various bottlenecks on the route.

It's an old plan which gets revived every few years; Metronet have it in
their sights now.

Three questions:

Firstly, am i right in thinking that it will no longer be possible to
catch a train from anywhere anticlockwise of Edgware Road to anywhere
clockwise of it (or vice versa)? High Street Kensington to Baker Street,
say, or Bayswater to King's Cross. That would seem like a very, very
serious degradation in service.

Secondly, what happened to the panhandle plan? That had H&C trains doing
Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Liverpool Street - Tower Hill - Gloucester
Road - Edgware Road - Liverpool Street - Aldgate East - Whitechapel or
Barking; in other words, coming in like a current H&C, doing one turn
round the circle, then going out like an H&C. That turned the circle into
a line, allowing recovery time to be inserted, but maintained a mostly
circular service (you couldn't go from south of Edgware Road to south of
Liverpool Street in a clockwise direction, but other than that, you have
direct trains between any two points).

Lastly, Dave, you say "Works will be undertaken on the Hammersmith &
City line station at Paddington to relieve overcrowding.". Can you expand
on that at all?

tom

--
Only men's minds could have mapped into abstraction such a territory

In message , at
01:26:46 on Sun, 29 May 2005, Tom Anderson
remarked:
Firstly, am i right in thinking that it will no longer be possible to
catch a train from anywhere anticlockwise of Edgware Road to anywhere
clockwise of it (or vice versa)? High Street Kensington to Baker
Street, say, or Bayswater to King's Cross. That would seem like a very,
very serious degradation in service.

If the change you describe were to be introduced, it wouldn't matter
very much, because that section of the [circle] line is appallingly
unreliable. If withdrawing the 'Circle' trains made the remaining trains
more reliable, then even with a change at Edgware Rd, the result would
be an overall improvement.
--
Roland Perry

The plan is for trains to run from Hammersmith H&C to Edgware Road via
the Circle line, and back - ie Edgware Road to Hammersmith via the
Circle. Thus the only current Circle type journeys that will require a
change of train will be those such as Bayswater - Baker St.

Each section is expected to have a 4 min service, and the section
between Paddington and Edgware Road will be a bit busy (30 trains per
hour)

knapp gate wrote:
The plan is for trains to run from Hammersmith H&C to Edgware Road via
the Circle line, and back - ie Edgware Road to Hammersmith via the
Circle. Thus the only current Circle type journeys that will require a
change of train will be those such as Bayswater - Baker St.

Each section is expected to have a 4 min service, and the section
between Paddington and Edgware Road will be a bit busy (30 trains per
hour)

Which Paddington?

Did I imagine this, or was there a plan to run the
Hammersmith-Circle-Edgware Road service alongside an extended Wimbelware
running Wimbledon-Earl's Court-King's Cross-Barking? That would account for
almost all useful journies on the Circle without a change - only a few
isolated ones like Gloucester Road to Baker Street would become impossible.

Jonn

sorry - to be precise it's from the junction where the tiles from
Paddington Circle and the one from Paddington suburban join together;
it's called Praed St junction