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Adrian wrote:

JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Which of course should tell our Adrian chap he should read wot I wrote a
little more carefully and not jump in with his assumptions.

Not I making the incorrect assumptions, ol' chap.

Quite right. You were just down innattentive.

You were making
guesstimates of the "majority" VED rate which I suspect were way out...

You've missed by miles.

But, even so... More money than sense...

I've tried with such obvious clues, yet you still don't get it.

Better go for a lie down I suppose.

John B

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"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Which of course should tell our Adrian chap he should read wot I wrote a
little more carefully and not jump in with his assumptions.

Not I making the incorrect assumptions, ol' chap. You were making
guesstimates of the "majority" VED rate which I suspect were way out...

But, even so... More money than sense...

Nah, you still haven't worked it out. He didn't spend 5.5 grand on a
bicycle. Nor did he spend 3 grand (or whatever it was) on a bicycle.

If I mention that the last bike I bought cost 450 quid in tax on frame and
fork alone (ok, front hub too), will you go all astounded at that? But I bet
you wouldn't find an equivalent cheaper.

Still, I've got all that spare cash from not paying to commute - I've got to
spend it somewhere!

cheers,
clive

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Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Nah, you still haven't worked it out. He didn't spend 5.5 grand on a
bicycle. Nor did he spend 3 grand (or whatever it was) on a bicycle.

So John's telling porkies when he says he dropped over £500 tax on a bike,
too? Can we trust ANYTHING you lycralot say?

If I mention that the last bike I bought cost 450 quid in tax on frame
and fork alone (ok, front hub too), will you go all astounded at that?
But I bet you wouldn't find an equivalent cheaper.

But you're failing to explain to me what spending all that cash on a bike
*does* other than make you feel warm and fluffy and all Lance Armstrong.

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"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Nah, you still haven't worked it out. He didn't spend 5.5 grand on a
bicycle. Nor did he spend 3 grand (or whatever it was) on a bicycle.

So John's telling porkies when he says he dropped over £500 tax on a bike,
too?

Go and read the post again. There have been quite a few hints. No, John
isn't telling porkies.

If I mention that the last bike I bought cost 450 quid in tax on frame
and fork alone (ok, front hub too), will you go all astounded at that?
But I bet you wouldn't find an equivalent cheaper.

But you're failing to explain to me what spending all that cash on a bike
*does* other than make you feel warm and fluffy and all Lance Armstrong.

Comfort and handling mainly. The expensive bike is loads more comfortable at
certain critical moments, and is easier to keep upright. Is that enough of a
clue? (no, probably not. Never mind. All bikes are just like what Dixon of
Dock Green rode, there are no variations at all.)

cheers,
clive

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Adrian wrote:

Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Nah, you still haven't worked it out. He didn't spend 5.5 grand on a
bicycle. Nor did he spend 3 grand (or whatever it was) on a bicycle.

So John's telling porkies when he says he dropped over £500 tax on a bike,
too?

Are you going to withdraw that allegation?

Can we trust ANYTHING you lycralot say?

smile
My word you must be very fit with all that digging.
Time to lie down and stretch out I think.

John B

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Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Nah, you still haven't worked it out. He didn't spend 5.5 grand on a
bicycle. Nor did he spend 3 grand (or whatever it was) on a bicycle.

So John's telling porkies when he says he dropped over £500 tax on a
bike, too?

Go and read the post again. There have been quite a few hints. No,
John isn't telling porkies.

So there's some dissembling worthy of a senior government spin doctor going
on around here.

Forgive me, for I merely a stupid car driver and can't hope to keep pace
with you sneaky cyclists...

Let's do this s-l-o-w-l-y for my benefit...

But then the last cycle I bought contributed around five times more in
tax to the country's coffers than most people pay in VED :-(

He's stated elsewhere that he's based that on £105 VED, so £525. If that's
VAT, then that's a £3,525 bicycle.

So what other taxes are payable on a bicycle? Or are we playing with some
accounting shenanigans involving allocations of income tax or whatever?

But you're failing to explain to me what spending all that cash on a
bike *does* other than make you feel warm and fluffy and all Lance
Armstrong.

Comfort and handling mainly. The expensive bike is loads more
comfortable at certain critical moments, and is easier to keep
upright.

So it's perfectly acceptible to ride to the limits of handling on public
roads? OK...

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JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Are you going to withdraw that allegation?

No, I don't think I will, thanks.

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"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Nah, you still haven't worked it out. He didn't spend 5.5 grand on a
bicycle. Nor did he spend 3 grand (or whatever it was) on a bicycle.

So John's telling porkies when he says he dropped over £500 tax on a
bike, too?

Go and read the post again. There have been quite a few hints. No,
John isn't telling porkies.

So there's some dissembling worthy of a senior government spin doctor
going
on around here.

Nope. You're just missing the huge hints John kept dropping to you.

Forgive me, for I merely a stupid car driver and can't hope to keep pace
with you sneaky cyclists...

Let's do this s-l-o-w-l-y for my benefit...

But then the last cycle I bought contributed around five times more in
tax to the country's coffers than most people pay in VED :-(

He's stated elsewhere that he's based that on £105 VED, so £525. If that's
VAT, then that's a £3,525 bicycle.

So what other taxes are payable on a bicycle? Or are we playing with some
accounting shenanigans involving allocations of income tax or whatever?

Your mistake is nothing to do with the numbers. Read those bits above again,
a bit harder. The hint is you're making an assumption which is unfounded.

But you're failing to explain to me what spending all that cash on a
bike *does* other than make you feel warm and fluffy and all Lance
Armstrong.

Comfort and handling mainly. The expensive bike is loads more
comfortable at certain critical moments, and is easier to keep
upright.

So it's perfectly acceptible to ride to the limits of handling on public
roads? OK...

See, there you go again, making unfounded assumptions. I have no intention
at all of falling off on public roads.

Remember I mentioned Dixon of Dock Green? I may have been stretching the
truth just a little when I said all bikes were like what he rode.

BTW you really ought to withdraw that allegation that JohnB was lying - he
wasn't (well, not in that post, anyway).

cheers,
clive

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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:28:34 GMT, "Alan"
said:

Surely it is far better for
the environment if *more* people cycled?

Not sure about that. Pink lycra is a serious environmental hazard.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

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In article . 170,
Adrian wrote:
Fine. So - how DO we get red light cameras to recognise cyclists without
having plates on bikes?

Same way you catch the tailgating motorist; the fool with no
insurance; the unlicenced driver; the dangerous car with no MOT.
Coppers on the ground.

This is the primary reason why GATSOs are so dangerous - it's not
that those who speed don't deserve 3 points and a fine[1] - but that
senior police officers (and the HO) think that GATSOs are a replacment
for traffic police.

I've heard an estimate that 10% of drivers in London are uninsured.
Guess which concerns me (as a motorist!) mo idiot cyclists
jumping red lights or uninsured drivers? Which do you honestly
think will compromise my safty more? Frankly, getting all ****y
about cyclists is ********. Entertaining, though.

Mike

--
Mike Bristow - really a very good driver

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"Chris" wrote in message
...
Huge wrote:

Well, it would be, cyclists not being acustomed to actually paying for
anything, given that they use the roads and the trains for nothing.


I'm a 40% tax payer, a paid-up motorist, and a cyclist. I pay for the
roads just as much anyone.

You really are as thick as **** aren't you?

******.


Should there not be a " -- " just before your sig?

--
IanH

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Adrian wrote:
chris harrison ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :


Can you get a new bike for 100 quid, "worth having"?


I would never recommend anyone spend "just" 100 quid on a new bike.


aren't you agreeing with what my position has been all along? :)

There's your answer to your question, then... g

But I'll bet a much higher percentage of new bikes are the £100-250 end of
the market than £5k cars are of new cars.

Maybe, but that just underlines the bike as an economical convenient
means of transport!

You're still talking a fraction of the similar amounts for cars ;)


Oh, absolutely. That's undeniable. But... five grand... on a bike...?!?

Hold on (again) - we've been here before :-D

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Adrian wrote:

JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Are you going to withdraw that allegation?

No, I don't think I will, thanks.

Clearly a man with no honour.

You really shouldn't make things up.
One day you'll end up flat on your back.

John B

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Adrian wrote:


But you're failing to explain to me what spending all that cash on a
bike *does* other than make you feel warm and fluffy and all Lance
Armstrong.

Comfort and handling mainly. The expensive bike is loads more
comfortable at certain critical moments, and is easier to keep
upright.

So it's perfectly acceptible to ride to the limits of handling on public
roads? OK...

He didn't say that at all.

I suspect you don't ride a bike very much - if at all.

John B

London to Brighton bike ride next week (blatant plug for me!)
 

I would never recommend anyone spend "just" 100 quid on a new bike.

Double that to get acceptable. Double *that* to get tolerable. Double
*that* to get reasonable.

The Halfords jobs look OK and are under £100 - been looking for my daughter

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If I mention that the last bike I bought cost 450 quid in tax on frame and
fork alone (ok, front hub too), will you go all astounded at that? But I
bet
you wouldn't find an equivalent cheaper.

My first motorbike was £450 brand new and that was worth having!

GP100 sport

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"Martin" wrote in message
...
I would never recommend anyone spend "just" 100 quid on a new bike.

Double that to get acceptable. Double *that* to get tolerable. Double
*that* to get reasonable.

The Halfords jobs look OK and are under £100 - been looking for my
daughter

How old is she?

Be aware that anything with any suspension for that price is a mechanical
disaster area. You'll either spend large amounts of time trying to keep it
working and swearing at the crap materials they've used (bolts made of
cheese etc), or it'll just stop working.

They may 'look OK', but are you looking with an experienced eye?

cheers,
clive

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Martin wrote:

I would never recommend anyone spend "just" 100 quid on a new bike.

Double that to get acceptable. Double *that* to get tolerable. Double
*that* to get reasonable.

The Halfords jobs look OK and are under £100 - been looking for my daughter

Is this for a young child?
Their play bikes may be OK but the rest, at that price, are just not
worth it.

They are very likely to be made of poor materials and aimed at being
sold to the inexperienced.
yes, the bikes will 'look' OK, but the aim is to sell on features and
image, not quality.
For example, children will cry out "it must have suspension" because
suspension looks 'cool', yet at that price it will be more truoble than
its worth.
After a couple of months, perhaps less, you will probably be rueing the
day you bought the bike and it will be left unused at teh back of teh shed.

Last Sunday I had two children for cycle-training who had recently been
bought new bikes from Halfords.
One had the front quick release done up finger tight - it was clear no
spanner had been used.
It could have dropped out if a bump or pot-hole had been hit
The other had handlebars that were so loose as to be lethal.

Both bikes were also completely the wrong size.

These are not isolated incidents.

I am sure some stores have competent mechanics, but whenever I hear of
someone with a bike from Halfords my heart sinks. I'd advise you go to
your local real bike shop first, where you should receive better advice
on what would be best, together with back up service.

That said you may be lucky.

John B

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JohnB wrote:

One had the front quick release done up finger tight - it was clear no
spanner had been used.

Why would a spanner be used on a quick release?

--
The Caretaker .........

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The Caretaker wrote:

JohnB wrote:

One had the front quick release done up finger tight - it was clear no
spanner had been used.

Why would a spanner be used on a quick release?



Of course you are right.


the quick release should be tightened by means of the lever.
Some people turn the lever like using a spanner to hold the wheel in place.
Of course the leverage is far less than using a spnner on ordinary wheel nuts.

i suspect they think of the QR lever in teh same way as they do a spanner.

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The Caretaker wrote:

JohnB wrote:

One had the front quick release done up finger tight - it was clear no
spanner had been used.

Why would a spanner be used on a quick release?

Of course you are right.

slaps head with wet fish

The quick release mechanism should be tightened by means of the QR lever.
Some people turn the lever like using a spanner to hold the wheel in place.
Of course the leverage is far less than using a spanner on ordinary
wheel nuts.

I suspect they think of the QR lever in the same way as they do a spanner.

Thanks to the US litigation culture many bikes have those 'lawyers'
lips' on teh fork ends which help prevent a wheel falling out should the
QR not be tight enough, but then they negate much of the purpose of the
QR in the first place.

John B

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How old is she?

Nearly 8

Be aware that anything with any suspension for that price is a mechanical
disaster area. You'll either spend large amounts of time trying to keep it
working and swearing at the crap materials they've used (bolts made of
cheese etc), or it'll just stop working.

Why? - never had suspension problems with powered 2 wheelers

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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005, Martin wrote:

Be aware that anything with any suspension for that price is a
mechanical disaster area. You'll either spend large amounts of time
trying to keep it working and swearing at the crap materials they've
used (bolts made of cheese etc), or it'll just stop working.

Why? - never had suspension problems with powered 2 wheelers

You've probably never bought suspension that cheap for a powered
two-wheeler. Seriously, if you're getting a complete bike with boingy
forks for under a ton, the forks themselves are probably 10 or 20 quid,
which is basically buying you two bits of gaspipe with a sockful of old
rubbers inside, held together with gaffer tape and wishful thinking.
You're far, far better off sticking with rigid forks, which will give you
just as a good a ride, soak up less power, give you more control and take
less looking after. Suspension forks don't get good until you're in the
several tens of pounds range at the very least.

That's just my 2p, anyway. Someone'll doubtless jump in and tell you that
shocks costing less than 250 UKP aren't worth bothering with ...

tom

--
Punk's not sexual, it's just aggression.

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In message , JohnB writes
I am sure some stores have competent mechanics, but whenever I hear of
someone with a bike from Halfords my heart sinks. I'd advise you go to
your local real bike shop first, where you should receive better advice
on what would be best, together with back up service.
I bought a bike from Halfords for my grandson but couldn't have it for
two hours as it had to be assembled by properly trained mechanics. I
got the bike three and a half hours later. On getting home I found
that the front wheel was not properly attached to the forks, and spent
the next couple of days taking it apart and reassembling it without the
instructions as Halfords had kindly removed these for safety purposes.
--
Clive

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"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
h.li...

That's just my 2p, anyway. Someone'll doubtless jump in and tell you that
shocks costing less than 250 UKP aren't worth bothering with ...


I paid £120 for my bike and it's got lovely shocks.

But that's EBay for you ;-) 4 year old Scott midrange hybrid. Needed a new
chain and a bit of tweaking... for the amount I ride it it's perfect. And
about £300 less than a new one would have been!

But then my latest car was a £250 EBay bargain too - I fancied taking a
chance for a change...

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You've probably never bought suspension that cheap for a powered
two-wheeler. Seriously, if you're getting a complete bike with boingy
forks for under a ton, the forks themselves are probably 10 or 20 quid,
which is basically buying you two bits of gaspipe with a sockful of old
rubbers inside, held together with gaffer tape and wishful thinking.
You're far, far better off sticking with rigid forks, which will give you
just as a good a ride, soak up less power, give you more control and take
less looking after. Suspension forks don't get good until you're in the
several tens of pounds range at the very least.

Thanks!

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I bought a bike from Halfords for my grandson but couldn't have it for
two hours as it had to be assembled by properly trained mechanics. I
got the bike three and a half hours later. On getting home I found
that the front wheel was not properly attached to the forks, and spent
the next couple of days taking it apart and reassembling it without the
instructions as Halfords had kindly removed these for safety purposes.

I'd insist on the instructions!

I'd also very carefully check a bike first

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"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
chris harrison ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

I've never spent five grand on a car.
I've only once spent more than HALF that on a car.

You are not average in this regard amongst car drivers ....

And five grand is an average bicycle?

Also not average, but not unimaginable.

So where did "average" come into it? Although I'd suspect that it's *FAR*
more common to buy inexpensive cars than expensive bikes...

It goes a lot further than that same 5 grand spent on a car

How? Seriously - genuine question. I'm *baffled* about what a £5k bike
will
do that a £500 one won't.

It will use more expensive rarer metals and carbon fibres etc., burning much
more resources to build. It will still have the same wheezy **** powering it
though.

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Adrian wrote:

JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Are you going to withdraw that allegation?

No, I don't think I will, thanks.

A man who throws around unfounded remarks is a man with no honour :-(
Respect level: Zilch.

John B

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JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Are you going to withdraw that allegation?

No, I don't think I will, thanks.

A man who throws around unfounded remarks is a man with no honour :-(
Respect level: Zilch.

Tell you what, John - you explain the calculations that I apparently
misunderstood, and I'll consider withdrawing the comment. How's that?

Until you can or will do that...

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"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Are you going to withdraw that allegation?

No, I don't think I will, thanks.

A man who throws around unfounded remarks is a man with no honour :-(
Respect level: Zilch.

Tell you what, John - you explain the calculations that I apparently
misunderstood, and I'll consider withdrawing the comment. How's that?

Until you can or will do that...

Adrian - I think he has already withdrawn the calculation that got it to
5.5K, and we are now working on a revised calculation of about 3.3K. But
apart from that number issue, the main gist of what he wrote is true - and
you _still_ haven't worked out your mistake.

Here's another _huge_ hint : Who's the fastest person to have pedalled from
Lands End to John O'Groats?

BTW you still haven't worked mine out either...

cheers,
clive

London to Brighton bike ride next week (blatant plug for me!)
 

Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Adrian - I think he has already withdrawn the calculation that got it
to 5.5K, and we are now working on a revised calculation of about
3.3K.

Yes, and I've already called him on the mis-assumption that he made to get
there - and, IIRC, John also denied £3k.

Here's another _huge_ hint : Who's the fastest person to have pedalled
from Lands End to John O'Groats?

D'you know something? I care marginally less than I have a clue on that
one.

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"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Adrian - I think he has already withdrawn the calculation that got it
to 5.5K, and we are now working on a revised calculation of about
3.3K.

Yes, and I've already called him on the mis-assumption that he made to get
there - and, IIRC, John also denied £3k.

Yes, he did deny spending 3K on a bike. But that was not a lie.

Here's another _huge_ hint : Who's the fastest person to have pedalled
from Lands End to John O'Groats?

D'you know something? I care marginally less than I have a clue on that
one.

Well, in that case it's probably about time you accepted that John wasn't
lying.

cheers,
clive

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Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Adrian - I think he has already withdrawn the calculation that got
it to 5.5K, and we are now working on a revised calculation of about
3.3K.

Yes, and I've already called him on the mis-assumption that he made
to get there - and, IIRC, John also denied £3k.

Yes, he did deny spending 3K on a bike.

Right. So he apparently paid the tax applicable to a £3k purchase, but
didn't spend £3k. Whatever.

But that was not a lie.

Whatever.
At best, it was childish semantic nitpicking - "I didn't spend £3,000, I
spent £3,146.72. So ner to you"

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Clive George wrote:

Here's another _huge_ hint : Who's the fastest person to have pedalled from
Lands End to John O'Groats?

Oh Clive, that's a bit of a cheater ;-)

Better watch it though, or Adrian will be throwing a tantrum, laying on
his back waving his legs in the air.

John B

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JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Better watch it though, or Adrian will be throwing a tantrum, laying
on his back waving his legs in the air.

It just goes to show how much is expressed through non-verbal cues, and so
lost through a text-only medium...

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Adrian wrote:

Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Adrian - I think he has already withdrawn the calculation that got it
to 5.5K, and we are now working on a revised calculation of about
3.3K.

Yes, and I've already called him on the mis-assumption that he made to get
there

Eh?
Yes, it was an assumption - taken from mid-table on the DVLA site - IMO
not unreasonable.
But if you know it is incorrect then what *is* the average VED paid?

Or are you again making staements without any back up?

John B

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JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Yes, and I've already called him on the mis-assumption that he made
to get there

Eh?
Yes, it was an assumption - taken from mid-table on the DVLA site -
IMO not unreasonable.
But if you know it is incorrect then what *is* the average VED paid?

Or are you again making staements without any back up?

You've already asked, I've already answered.

Your original statement said "the majority" - and I would lay odds that
"the majority" pay the full-fat £165.

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Adrian wrote:

JohnB ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Yes, and I've already called him on the mis-assumption that he made
to get there

Eh?
Yes, it was an assumption - taken from mid-table on the DVLA site -
IMO not unreasonable.
But if you know it is incorrect then what *is* the average VED paid?

.... I would lay odds that
"the majority" pay the full-fat £165.

But you don't know. Thought not.

John B

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"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Clive George ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Adrian - I think he has already withdrawn the calculation that got
it to 5.5K, and we are now working on a revised calculation of about
3.3K.

Yes, and I've already called him on the mis-assumption that he made
to get there - and, IIRC, John also denied £3k.

Yes, he did deny spending 3K on a bike.

Right. So he apparently paid the tax applicable to a £3k purchase, but
didn't spend £3k. Whatever.

Nope. You're on entirely the wrong track.

But that was not a lie.

Whatever.
At best, it was childish semantic nitpicking - "I didn't spend £3,000, I
spent £3,146.72. So ner to you"

Well, there may be a certain amount of nitpickery going on, but it's not in
the area you think it is, and it is funny watching you get all het up about
it :-)

cheers,
clive