It seems like the picc is going to be out of action for a long time
around
the kings X area unfortunately. Ok , but surely that doesn't mean a
huge
stretch has to be closed all the way from Hyde Park to Arnos Grove?
Surely it could at least run south as far as wood green and reverse in
the
siding there? That would at least cut out 50% of the unpleasent
replacement
bus service B.

B2003

Trains can only reverse north to south via W.G Sdgs. Once trains are in
the sdg they can only be routed on to the Southbound platform. Also a
train in the southbound platform can only be routed back in the sdgs

If it is not in passenger service I hasten to add!!

Trains can only reverse north to south via W.G Sdgs. Once trains are in
the sdg they can only be routed on to the Southbound platform. Also a
train in the southbound platform can only be routed back in the sdgs

Is this an operational restriction or a physical one? If its the former
surely some special operational plan could be put into force?

B2003

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...
Is this an operational restriction or a physical one? If its the former
surely some special operational plan could be put into force?

It's both. The signalling was not designed to allow it to happen, so you
could only do it by working (and securing) the points manually.

The diagram below shows the area [1]. To reverse from south-to-north the
following would have to happen:-
1. Train runs in to southbound platform (no problem)
2. PG4 clear for shunt in to siding (no problem)
3. 6 points reversed/secured and train authorized out of siding (past PG10
at danger)
(problem - no protection from a train approaching from the south - PG1
is too close to the platform to do this, all other signals before that are
automatic).
4. 6 points normalized/unsecured and PG2 cleared

6
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
N/B to Cockfosters
|o PG1 ############## |oo PG2/3 \ PG10 o|
--------------------------------------
############## |oPG4 /
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
S/B from Cockfosters
PG11o| 7 PG12co| PG12bo|
PG12ao|

The problems basically are securing the points and authorizing the train out
of the siding. It could well require the power to be taken off (further
complicated as you might have to involve the sections for both directions
because the siding is in the middle, plus the gaps with the next section to
the north happen to be at 6 points), and would take a lot of time.

There is a fixed red lamp at the southern end of the northbound platform,
however it probably doesn't have a trainstop, so some kind of additional
protection would be necessary. I suppose the problem of northbound trains
could be dealt with by holding the Turnpike Lane stating signal at danger
and renumbering it as an "X" signal, but then you lose the ability to
transfer trains from Northfields to Cockfosters via the northbound line (has
this been happening, or vice versa?) or to run (engineers?) trains out of
the bomb site.



[1] Layout is correct, but doing it from memory so certain numbers might be
wrong. Also, referring to north and south for convenience - I'm sure someone
would have be along to remind everyone that the Picc is considered to run
from east to west!

David Splett wrote:
"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...
Is this an operational restriction or a physical one? If its the
former surely some special operational plan could be put into force?

It's both. The signalling was not designed to allow it to happen, so
you could only do it by working (and securing) the points manually.


So PG IMR doesn't support remote securing then? If it did, one could
stretch the rules and use it to lock the northbound-to-siding crossover.

Boltar wrote:

It seems like the picc is going to be out of action for a long time
around
the kings X area unfortunately. Ok , but surely that doesn't mean a
huge
stretch has to be closed all the way from Hyde Park to Arnos Grove?
Surely it could at least run south as far as wood green and reverse in
the
siding there? That would at least cut out 50% of the unpleasent
replacement
bus service B.

A few changes to WAGN services would help - Ally Pally (a 10 minute walk
or a couple of minutes on the bus fom Wood Green) to Finsbury Park and
Kings x/Moorgate is every 10 minutes in the mornings. But the trains are
becoming increasingly packed; stopping a few fast trains there and
selected affected stations on route especially at non-peak times
(especially weekends) would help.... surely it can't be that difficult
to do?

It does seem to me that the other transport links from town to that area
are operating with no concessions to the current closures. The buses
(29, N29) which provide links to town form that area are doing their
best but it's not enough.

In article ,
(Stuart) wrote:

Boltar wrote:

A few changes to WAGN services would help - Ally Pally (a 10 minute
walk or a couple of minutes on the bus fom Wood Green) to Finsbury Park
and Kings x/Moorgate is every 10 minutes in the mornings. But the
trains are becoming increasingly packed; stopping a few fast trains
there and selected affected stations on route especially at non-peak
times (especially weekends) would help.... surely it can't be that
difficult to do?

It does seem to me that the other transport links from town to that
area are operating with no concessions to the current closures. The
buses (29, N29) which provide links to town form that area are doing
their best but it's not enough.

Are the platforms at Ally Pally long enough for more than 2 x 313 units
anyway?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

The problems basically are securing the points and authorizing the train out
of the siding. It could well require the power to be taken off (further
complicated as you might have to involve the sections for both directions
because the siding is in the middle, plus the gaps with the next section to
the north happen to be at 6 points), and would take a lot of time.

Does sound a bit of a mare. Though I'm surprised the siding isn't set
up to
allow this as this isn't the first time the line has been closed from
Hyde park
to arnos grove and I'm sure it won't be the last so it would certainly
add a bit
of extra flexibility to the service not to mention making commuters
lives a bit
easier.

B2003

In message , David Splett
writes
you lose the ability to transfer trains from Northfields to Cockfosters
via the northbound line (has this been happening, or vice versa?) or to
run (engineers?) trains out of the bomb site.

Nothing has run through since Thursday. Hence we have 73 stock parked
up all over the place, South Harrow & Ealing Common for two and I
suspect Uxbridge, although I've not been there since I left my train
there on the day.

[1] Layout is correct, but doing it from memory so certain numbers
might be wrong. Also, referring to north and south for convenience -
I'm sure someone would have be along to remind everyone that the Picc
is considered to run from east to west!

I wouldn't dream of it ;-)
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)