More bombs??
 

In ,
Bob Wood typed:

In oups.com,
typed:

There has been emergency vehicles heading south along Albert
Embankment for about the last hour or so, so we realised that
something had happened. Usually all the emergency vehicles are
heading into London not out.


Eyewitness claiming small explosion in a rucksack - no
casualties. I don't know which site this refers to.

Also, train managed to continue to Warren Street where it was
evacuated. I don't know whether this is the same incident.


Radio 5 has just reported that these might be very small explosions - they
are suggesting "detonators only".






--
Bob

More bombs??
 

"Bob Wood" wrote in message
...
In ,
Bob Wood typed:

In oups.com,
typed:

There has been emergency vehicles heading south along Albert
Embankment for about the last hour or so, so we realised that
something had happened. Usually all the emergency vehicles are
heading into London not out.


Eyewitness claiming small explosion in a rucksack - no
casualties. I don't know which site this refers to.

Also, train managed to continue to Warren Street where it was
evacuated. I don't know whether this is the same incident.


Radio 5 has just reported that these might be very small explosions -
they
are suggesting "detonators only".

Small bang, lots of smoke, possible that one perpetrator ran away (Oval)....
could be a duff lot of explosive. Early speculation on my part though.

Nick

More bombs??
 

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:52:20 GMT, Bob Wood wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:
In ,
Bob Wood typed:
[...]
Eyewitness claiming small explosion in a rucksack - no
casualties. I don't know which site this refers to.

Also, train managed to continue to Warren Street where it was
evacuated. I don't know whether this is the same incident.

Radio 5 has just reported that these might be very small explosions - they
are suggesting "detonators only".

BBC News 24 report that LU "sources" are saying that nailbombs
*without explosive* are involved, and the explosions are indeed
detonators only. All unconfirmed, of course.

1 person injured at Warren Street according to BT Police (via BBC News
24).

No injuries reported at the other two LU locations, nor on the bus.


Some very sick copycats?
--
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

More bombs??
 

Ross wrote:
Some very sick copycats?


My immediate thought too. Looks like an amateur copy, done because it
would be "funny".

PhilD

--

More bombs??
 

The worry is how many of us could lay our hands on dets and the
knowledge to use them in less than 2 weeks in order to cash in on
someone else's work? No doubt the conspiracy theorists will be having
another field day soon.

More bombs??
 

In oups.com,
PhilD typed:

Ross wrote:
Some very sick copycats?


My immediate thought too. Looks like an amateur copy, done because it
would be "funny".


I doubt it. I don't think a copy-cat would go to the extent of 4 almost
simultaneous incidents.


--
Bob

More bombs??
 

Bob Wood wrote:
In oups.com,
PhilD typed:

Ross wrote:

Some very sick copycats?

My immediate thought too. Looks like an amateur copy, done because it
would be "funny".

I doubt it. I don't think a copy-cat would go to the extent of 4 almost
simultaneous incidents.

I think London got lucky this time.

One of the reports on BBC World service (30 minutes ago) had the bus
driver reporting a split open rucksack, with white powder spilling
out.

My suspicion is that these were real bombs, but the main charges
failed to detonate.

Modern high explosives are pretty insensitive, and it require a
detonator or blasting cap to get them going.

Perhaps they were constructed incompetantly, or home made explosives
were used which did not work.

We'll know in a few days, I guess.

pt

More bombs??
 

Peter Trei wrote:
[...]
One of the reports on BBC World service (30 minutes ago) had the bus
driver reporting a split open rucksack, with white powder spilling
out.

My suspicion is that these were real bombs, but the main charges
failed to detonate.

Modern high explosives are pretty insensitive, and it require a
detonator or blasting cap to get them going.

Another theory - these guys were set to go but police nabbed the
explosives they were planning to use, but they decided to go ahead
anyway (with fake explosives!).

Doesn't seem likely, but neither does being as organised as they seem
to have been but none of the devices working...

More bombs??
 

I can't believe that 4 hours after this morning's attacks in London, my
MSN/MSNBC home page has nothing about it!??!!? What the .... I go
elsewhere for news, but this is very inept. They have a lead to another
attempted Rove leak smear, but no news lead about London. It seems like
they work for the Democratic party in the USA and want to put terrorist
attacks in the Western world on the back burner. I'm sick of this
selective news approach for political purposes!

More bombs??
 

Simon Lane wrote:
Peter Trei wrote:
[...]
One of the reports on BBC World service (30 minutes ago) had the bus
driver reporting a split open rucksack, with white powder spilling
out.

My suspicion is that these were real bombs, but the main charges
failed to detonate.

Modern high explosives are pretty insensitive, and it require a
detonator or blasting cap to get them going.

Another theory - these guys were set to go but police nabbed the
explosives they were planning to use, but they decided to go ahead
anyway (with fake explosives!).

Doesn't seem likely, but neither does being as organised as they seem
to have been but none of the devices working...

There's a certain logic to the bombs being badly made. I can't imagine
it's easy to test bombs.

More bombs??
 

Neil Sluman wrote:
[...]
There's a certain logic to the bombs being badly made. I can't imagine
it's easy to test bombs.

I'm hearing (PM, R4) that these devices were of a similar construction
to the 7/7 ones. They all worked that time, none this time; maybe they
had someone else provide detonators this time?

More bombs??
 

Neil Sluman wrote:
[...]
There's a certain logic to the bombs being badly made. I can't imagine
it's easy to test bombs.

I'm hearing (PM, R4) that these devices were of a similar construction
to the 7/7 ones. They all worked that time, none this time; maybe they
had someone else provide detonators this time?

More bombs??
 

"Simon Lane" wrote in message
oups.com...
Neil Sluman wrote:
[...]
There's a certain logic to the bombs being badly made. I can't imagine
it's easy to test bombs.

I'm hearing (PM, R4) that these devices were of a similar construction
to the 7/7 ones. They all worked that time, none this time; maybe they
had someone else provide detonators this time?


I imagine it'd be a bit hard to complain about faulty detonators too!

More bombs??
 

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:37:52 +0100 someone who may be "Robin Mayes"
wrote this:-

I'm hearing (PM, R4) that these devices were of a similar construction
to the 7/7 ones. They all worked that time, none this time; maybe they
had someone else provide detonators this time?

I imagine it'd be a bit hard to complain about faulty detonators too!

It would be rather difficult for private individuals to take their
suppliers to court. However, there are other ways they might
complain.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

More bombs??
 

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:37:52 +0100 someone who may be "Robin Mayes"
wrote this:-

I'm hearing (PM, R4) that these devices were of a similar construction
to the 7/7 ones. They all worked that time, none this time; maybe they
had someone else provide detonators this time?

I imagine it'd be a bit hard to complain about faulty detonators too!

It would be rather difficult for private individuals to take their
suppliers to court. However, there are other ways they might
complain.

I would suspect those who deal with these scum are even scummier and nastier
so have a complaints department sign at the barrel end of an AK47.

More bombs??
 

On 21 Jul 2005 08:50:23 -0700, "Neil Sluman"
wrote:



Simon Lane wrote:
Peter Trei wrote:
[...]
One of the reports on BBC World service (30 minutes ago) had the bus
driver reporting a split open rucksack, with white powder spilling
out.

My suspicion is that these were real bombs, but the main charges
failed to detonate.

Modern high explosives are pretty insensitive, and it require a
detonator or blasting cap to get them going.

Another theory - these guys were set to go but police nabbed the
explosives they were planning to use, but they decided to go ahead
anyway (with fake explosives!).

Doesn't seem likely, but neither does being as organised as they seem
to have been but none of the devices working...

There's a certain logic to the bombs being badly made. I can't imagine
it's easy to test bombs.

"Co-op mixture" made with the wrong type of weedkiller wouldn't seem
to be too far-fetched a mistake for an amateur bomb-maker to make. One
of various news reports had mention of a "white powder" in conjunction
with a rucksack at one location.

More bombs??
 

Robin Mayes wrote:

snip

I imagine it'd be a bit hard to complain about faulty detonators too!

Yep! The Sale of Goods Act is unlikely to be invoked here methinks.

More bombs??
 

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Simon Lane wrote:

Neil Sluman wrote:
[...]
There's a certain logic to the bombs being badly made. I can't imagine
it's easy to test bombs.

I'm hearing (PM, R4) that these devices were of a similar construction
to the 7/7 ones. They all worked that time, none this time; maybe they
had someone else provide detonators this time?

The detonators worked, though.

A theory i heard is that they were real bombs, made using the same batch
of explosive as the 7/7 ones, but that in the intervening two weeks, this
had basically gone off, and was no longer active. I'm slightly dubious
about this; i believe the explosive in question is acetone peroxide, and
i'm not aware of a 'going off' pathway for that which operates that
quickly - there are mentions of it degrading in long-term storage, but two
weeks is not what i think of as long term. IANAchemist, though.

My own personal theory is that there's a strict alternation between proper
terrorists and what we might call 'joke terrorists' or perhaps
'irritationists' - the September 11th terrorists, clearly very seriously
proper terrorists, were followed by the shoe bomber, a man who PUT BOMBS
IN HIS SHOES for ****'s sake. Our own 7/7 tube bombers, again proper
terrorists, although by no means as successful as the September 11th mob,
are followed by the clowns we had today. We should expect another proper
bombing before too long, but after that, we can relax until the next round
of no-hopers do their thing.

tom

--
Batman always wins

More bombs??
 

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Ross wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:52:20 GMT, Bob Wood wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:
In ,
Bob Wood typed:
[...]
Eyewitness claiming small explosion in a rucksack - no
casualties. I don't know which site this refers to.

Also, train managed to continue to Warren Street where it was
evacuated. I don't know whether this is the same incident.

Radio 5 has just reported that these might be very small explosions - they
are suggesting "detonators only".

BBC News 24 report that LU "sources" are saying that nailbombs
*without explosive* are involved

I am curious as to what this "bomb without explosive", nail or otherwise,
is. It seems to me that explosive is a rather important, perhaps even the
defining, characteristic of a bomb. Are we perhaps dealing with some sort
of zen buddhist or dadaist terror faction?

tom

--
Batman always wins

More bombs??
 

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:07:00 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Simon Lane wrote:

Neil Sluman wrote:
[...]
There's a certain logic to the bombs being badly made. I can't imagine
it's easy to test bombs.

I'm hearing (PM, R4) that these devices were of a similar construction
to the 7/7 ones. They all worked that time, none this time; maybe they
had someone else provide detonators this time?

The detonators worked, though.

A theory i heard is that they were real bombs, made using the same batch
of explosive as the 7/7 ones, but that in the intervening two weeks, this
had basically gone off, and was no longer active. I'm slightly dubious
about this; i believe the explosive in question is acetone peroxide, and
i'm not aware of a 'going off' pathway for that which operates that
quickly - there are mentions of it degrading in long-term storage, but two
weeks is not what i think of as long term. IANAchemist, though.

If it was a fresh batch made up by amateurs then there could be plenty
of scope for the use of wrong ingredients (especially if domestic
preparations rather than "proper" chemicals were used, thus allowing
for e.g. the wrong type of drain cleaner not containing sulphuric
acid) resulting on this occasion in a benign mixture being produced.
snip

More bombs??
 

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:15:08 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote in
, seen in
uk.railway:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Ross wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:52:20 GMT, Bob Wood wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:
In ,
Bob Wood typed:
[...]
Eyewitness claiming small explosion in a rucksack - no
casualties. I don't know which site this refers to.

Also, train managed to continue to Warren Street where it was
evacuated. I don't know whether this is the same incident.

Radio 5 has just reported that these might be very small explosions - they
are suggesting "detonators only".

BBC News 24 report that LU "sources" are saying that nailbombs
*without explosive* are involved

I am curious as to what this "bomb without explosive", nail or otherwise,
is. It seems to me that explosive is a rather important, perhaps even the
defining, characteristic of a bomb. Are we perhaps dealing with some sort
of zen buddhist or dadaist terror faction?

Buggered if I know, I'm only reporting what the BBC were telling us.

Although I'm told by someone who used to play with such things that a
detonator alone is quite capable of taking your hand off, so perhaps,
had there been an intent to frighten rather than kill/injure huge
numbers, a detonator only option would be quite good from a terrorists
POV. Big perhaps as I don't have the faintest idea what I'm talking
about!

--
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com

More bombs??
 

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 13:53:21 +0100, Ross
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:15:08 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote in
i, seen in
uk.railway:
snip
I am curious as to what this "bomb without explosive", nail or otherwise,
is. It seems to me that explosive is a rather important, perhaps even the
defining, characteristic of a bomb. Are we perhaps dealing with some sort
of zen buddhist or dadaist terror faction?

Buggered if I know, I'm only reporting what the BBC were telling us.

Although I'm told by someone who used to play with such things that a
detonator alone is quite capable of taking your hand off, so perhaps,
had there been an intent to frighten rather than kill/injure huge
numbers, a detonator only option would be quite good from a terrorists
POV. Big perhaps as I don't have the faintest idea what I'm talking
about!

A railway detonator is somewhat larger than the usual explosives
detonator as exhibited occasionally in public. It's some time since I
was near a diagram for one but ISTR that an explosives detonator is
basically a tube with relatively non-secure ends unlike a railway
detonator which is a sealed unit which isn't going to "let go" until
rather more energy has been built up internally.

More bombs??
 

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:49:40 +0100, Charles Ellson wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 13:53:21 +0100, Ross
wrote:
[...]
Although I'm told by someone who used to play with such things that a
detonator alone is quite capable of taking your hand off, so perhaps,
had there been an intent to frighten rather than kill/injure huge
numbers, a detonator only option would be quite good from a terrorists
POV. Big perhaps as I don't have the faintest idea what I'm talking
about!

A railway detonator is somewhat larger than the usual explosives
detonator as exhibited occasionally in public. [...]

I wasn't talking about railway detonators. The person who spoke to me
used to play with detonators in the army and will happily discuss
(read: bore you silly) with the behaviour of the various explosives
they used. At least he did with me for far too long yesterday.

--
Ross, Lincoln, UK

We're *not* afraid
http://www.werenotafraid.com