In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:10:55 on Sun, 24 Jul 2005,
Nick Leverton remarked:

There's a nice illustrated copy of the box junctions section of the
Highway Code at http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.htm#150

Which shows a car waiting in the box, because the exit road to his right
is clear. But what happens when an oncoming car turns left and it's no
longer clear?

IANAL but in the spirit of uninformed speculation on Usenet, I'd say he
was still in the right. He didn't enter the box when his exit wasn't
clear.

Of course whether a box junction camera would be equipped for this
situation is another matter. I suppose it could be done with an induction
loop in the exit lanes.

Nick
--
http://www.leverton.org/ ... So express yourself

If you are caught by a cam on a DC (assuming national speed limits), it
follows that you are driving at more than 70mph.

But that (DCs being NSL) is a big assumption in today's world. Many entirely
rural dual carriageway roads with modern alignments and few junctions have
had their speed limits reduced below the NSL.

"Richard Bullock" wrote in message
...
If you are caught by a cam on a DC (assuming national speed limits), it
follows that you are driving at more than 70mph.

But that (DCs being NSL) is a big assumption in today's world. Many
entirely rural dual carriageway roads with modern alignments and few
junctions have had their speed limits reduced below the NSL.

And then you turn off down a narrow country lane and find that you are
allowed to go faster than you were on the dual carriageway. Makes you wonder
what various council transport departments are on sometimes.

Dave.

Peter wrote:

snip /
We may have a 'problem' with these cameras, but it doesn't justify
breaking the law. Doing 80mph along a road is illegal whether there's
a camera or not! The sad thing is that the country is full of people
who have no respect for the law.

I think that is slightly untrue. The majority of people have respect for
the majority of laws.

The fact that speeding *in certain locations* is one of the few laws where a
significant minority from all cross-sections of the community don't have
respect for, suggests that the law in those locations needs rethinking.
Also is funny that those laws often aren't set by parliament, but by local
councillors.

Sean

In article , (David
Splett) wrote:

"Chris" wrote in message
...
If you "find yourself stuck in a box junction" I would suggest you
aren't doing it right:
HC.150: "... You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or
lane is clear."

You enter a junction and the lights turn red behind you. Just as this
is happening a string of pedestrians cross right in front of you. You
stop to avoid running them over, and now cannot proceed because
traffic is flowing across you. I would suggest that there can be
situations where you can get stuck in a box junction without having
done anything wrong, and I hope that this is taken in to account
with the enforcement.

I think it is likely you should have anticipated the pedestrians. They
hardly jumped out from behind something in those numbers, after all.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:33:50 +0000, McKev wrote:

Conor wrote:
In article , McKev
says...

Get a ****in grip - dont you think that this govmt screws enough cash
out of us???

Domations to cameras are completely voluntary.

Sure, drivers dont always obey the rules and it is sad to see but to
penalise by cameras and fines....no ****in way.

It's called BREAKING THE LAW. Surely you believe that people who break
the law sgould be punished?

Not at every turn though Conor (for motoring) - what the **** kind of
nation are we coming to here?

One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes congestion.


McKev

Box junction cameras are for my benefit, and the benefit of those who
want to get around town! Those fools who block box junctions cause
conjestion and delay everyone. I'm delighted if they get a £100 fine
because maybe they might think again before doing the same thing again.
Bring on more box junction cameras I say.

Top Gear had a feature where they hid near a box junction, and when
people stopped in it blocking other, a troupee of dancers pounced on
them to make them aware of what they had done. Fantastic!

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
I think it is likely you should have anticipated the pedestrians. They
hardly jumped out from behind something in those numbers, after all.

Actually, I was making a generalization. The incident concerned was at
Dalston Junction, and involved a string of four cyclists who had cycled
straight through a red light. If I had been going slightly faster then they
would simply have been flattened, more's the pity.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:45:35 +0100, steve
wrote:

One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently. That needs the junction to be redesigned, not
for lots of people to be fined.

My personal view is that I am against traffic enforcement cameras, and
would rather see more police officers out enforcing the law, and using
discretion as appropriate. An increase in the level of fines would go
some way to funding this.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:45:35 +0100, steve
wrote:

One the penalises the selfish. Box junction blocking causes
congestion.

It does. *But*, often, the box junctions are poorly-designed such
that it is easy, by a slight misjudgement, to end up being stuck in
the box inadvertently.

I agree. I think many of the boxes are larger than necessary, filling
the whole space between the stop lines on either side of the junction,
rather than just leaving a gap in the middle. The result is that
drivers realise that there are parts of the box that can be occupied
without affecting traffic flow, and that the capacity of the junction
would be reduced if the law was rigidly observed. If we're going to have
zero tolerance of yellow box offences, then the boxes need to be more
sensibly drawn.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)