Coincidence - that is one junction in my area that I have nominated in
my letter to the council. On more than one occasion the North Circ has
been blocked here! I guess they will put up yellow signs "Do not
block the junction" when they first introduce the cameras to give the
motorists warning. I seem to remember seeing these somewhere before.

John Rowland wrote:

I can't remember.

Incidentally, at Palmers Green the North Circular is a dual carriageway, and
if you are crossing it on Green Lanes you cross two separate box junctions.
People turning right onto the NCR tend to queue over both boxes, but am I
right in thinking that legally they are only allowed to queue over the
second box? It takes fairly sharp eyes to even realise that there are two
box junctions rather than one, especially in the dark.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In article ,
John Rowland wrote:
"Nick Leverton" wrote in message
...

The HC of course is not the law

Just as well...

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/22.htm#217

It says "do not stop [... ] at or near a bus stop or taxi rank" and doesn't
exempt buses and taxis.

Rule 217 seems to be in the subsection entitled "Parking", and "park" is
actually the third word of that paragraph just after "do not". It does
not say that vehicles licensed to use those places may not wait as part
of their licensed trade there. It also lacks the magic MUST NOT which
the HC uses when describing the law, but I think it's a fair prescription
for happy road use whether by buses, drivers or cyclists

Nick
--
http://www.leverton.org/ ... So express yourself

Graculus wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message
oups.com...

Dave wrote:
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot

Cool, I can't wait to hear what the speeding mob have to say about it.
They'll probably be moaning like they do about the speed cameras. If
only they could have cameras for every (or almost every) offence.

Like poor lane discipline (see another ongoing thread).

I guess I'm one of the 'speeding mob' ;-)

I'd love it. If it was possible to have cameras for 'almost every' offence
then a lot of the dimwitted but always 'I'm below the limit so I'm safe'
drivers would rapidly be clobbered with dangerous driving, tailgating,
DWDCA, and the roads would clear up rapidly.

It's been said before and it always gets ignored but I'll try again.

If the limits were sensibly and consistently applied, and cameras were
really sited at dangerous spots not on clear dual carriageways, and most
importantly this was in addition to real traffic policing not instead of
it, most people here would not have a problem with Scameras..

In article , Graculus says...

At least you knew the length of your vehicle, unlike the truck driver who I
saw driving onto a box junction at a level crossing only to come to a halt
with much of the truck being on the crossing. Not only stupid but
exceedingly dangerous. Or if not dangerous, could have caused delays as they
would have been unable to close the crossing till he moved off.

That's just plain stupid. At least with the roundabout, there was a
reason I ended up hanging over. At a level crossing, there's nothing
going to be barging in the gap in front of him.


--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)

Dave wrote:
Box Junction cameras to be rolled London wide following successful
pilot
The Times reports (article 23rd July entitiled "Box junctions to be
policed by camera") that following the success of trial in 6 boroughs
where there was a 23% reduction in the number of motorists stopping in
yellow boxes, box-junction cameras are to be offered to all 33
councils in London. The pilot scheme involved 96,000 penalty charge
(£50 or £100) notices being issued during the trial, including 31,000
that were issued to drivers stopping in box junctions, 1,700 issued to
motorists ignoring no entry signs, and 10,000 given to motorists for
driving where vehicles are not permitted.

As these are rolled out London wide, hopefully more road users will
see the benefits of reduced congestion. I will be writing to my
council suggesting a couple of areas where they might consider
putting a box junction camera, where I have seen drivers causing
congestion by breaking box junction rules. Other readers here may
consider doing the same.



Get a ****in grip - dont you think that this govmt screws enough cash out of
us???
Sure, drivers dont always obey the rules and it is sad to see but to
penalise by cameras and fines....no ****in way.
Is there going to be a camera for every possible offence? How about if
someone lets their dog **** in the park and doesnt
dispose of it? Will there be a flash and a NIP? Where will it end?

McKev

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 19:30:48 +0100, John Rowland wrote:
at Palmers Green are two separate box junctions. People turning right
tend to queue over both boxes, but am I right in thinking that
legally they are only allowed to queue over the second box?

Yes. Since the exit to the first box is blocked by traffic queueing to
enter the second one, you may not enter the first one.

It's a really simple pair of rules that govern these things.
1: you may only enter the box if your exit is clear.
2: you may only stop in the box if a conflicting traffic movement
prevents you leaving it.

This is why I'm concerned about the examples in your previous post. Pity
you can't remember where they are.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9680080.html
(73 133 newly-adorned in Dutch livery at Wimbledon Depot in 1991)

On 24 Jul 2005 07:31:51 -0700, Mizter T wrote:

I live near a box junction that's on a main road where I often turn
right. If I was to stay out of the yellow box then I'd block all the
traffic behind me (on a major road), the vast majority of which is
carrying straight on over the junction. So I stop in the middle of
the junction, waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic so I can
execute my right turn, and leaving the route clear for vehicles
behind me to continue straight over. Before reading this, I always
thought I was technically in the wrong, but it'd appear not.

No, you're in the right in the circumstance you describe.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p11654383.html
(111 467 in the Black Forest at Triberg in 2004)

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:06:37 GMT, Richard J. wrote:

Yes, I know. But while you are waiting to turn right, oncoming traffic
turns left and jams up the side road that was previously clear. You are
then stuck on the yellow box. This happens frequently at a particular
junction in Chiswick.

If this does indeed happen frequently, then it's time to make it into a
roundabout.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683719.html
(Bubble car 55003 framed by foliage at Stratford-upon-Avon in 1982)

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:46:59 GMT, PC Paul wrote:
If the limits were sensibly and consistently applied, and cameras were
really sited at dangerous spots not on clear dual carriageways, and
most importantly this was in addition to real traffic policing not
instead of it, most people here would not have a problem with
Scameras..

If you are caught by a cam on a DC (assuming national speed limits), it
follows that you are driving at more than 70mph. The fact you think this
is a problem indicates your limited consideration for other road users.
*You* might be perfectly in control of your car at 125 mph, but since
others on the road are not also doing comparable speeds, you are a
significant danger to *them*, especially when it comes to them changing
lanes to overtake, for example. Few drivers are actually as good as they
think they are, and the best ones consider others as well as themselves
more than your comment suggests you do.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p11938592.html ("Toffee apple" 31 017)

Chris Tolley wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:06:37 GMT, Richard J. wrote:

Yes, I know. But while you are waiting to turn right, oncoming
traffic turns left and jams up the side road that was previously
clear. You are then stuck on the yellow box. This happens
frequently at a particular junction in Chiswick.

If this does indeed happen frequently, then it's time to make it
into a roundabout.

Really? I had no idea the solution was that simple. Tell me, if you
replace the lights by this roundabout, how would you ensure safe
pedestrian routes across the junction in this busy shopping area?

The reason the side road jams up is actually a poor layout of parking
spaces and centre white line which leaves insufficient room for the
frequent buses on route E3 that turn in from the main road. The council
know what needs to be done but are taking ages to do it. (Chiswick High
Road / Turnham Green Terrace junction)

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)