London Tube Murder
 

@@@@@
Daily Mirror, 25 July 2005: Ian Blair insisted yesterday police
shoot-to-kill rules of engagement were necessary to protect lives. The
Met police chief faced off critics as he apologised for the shocking
blunder in which innocent Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was
shot dead by officers hunting the London bombers. Jean, 27, was blasted
five times in the head. Sir Ian said: "We're quite comfortable the
policy is right but these are difficult times. They (the rules) have to
be that. There's no point in shooting at someone's chest because that's
where a bomb is likely to be. . .The only way to deal with it is to
shoot to the head."
@@@@@@

Tsk, tsk. . .so it has come to this: The Great Anglo-Saxon Powers claim
their *War on Terror* strategy from George A. Romero's zombie hunting
handbook.

Nearly as appalling as the senseless murder of de Menezes is the
complete lack of reflection on the part of the Anglo-Saxon Powers. This
brutal murder is the *War on Terror* in microcosm. Ever since *9/11,*
the *coalition of the willing* have been scrambling around from
Afghanistan to Iraq like trigger happy Keystone Kops, killing thousands
and thousands of dark-skinned others in an unending series of
*regrettable mistakes.*

After last Thursday's dud *terror* attack on the London subway, limey
Prime Minister Tony Blair opined about the *evil ones*:

"Everyone is canny enough to know what these people are trying to do -
whoever is responsible for this latest incident - and that is to
intimidate people and to scare them and to frighten them, to stop them
going about their normal business."

Less than 24 hours later, fear was frozen on the face of a remarkably
unfortunate Brazilian electrician named Jean Charles de Menezes. .
..here is how this man was exited from the Land of the Living:

"As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left
to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a
cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified," said eyewitness Mike
Whitby. "He sort of tripped but they were hotly pursuing him and
couldn't have been more than two or three feet behind him at this time.
He half-tripped, was half-pushed to the floor. The policeman nearest to
me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand, he held it down to
the guy and unloaded five shots into him."

Mr. Blair, just who is terrorizing who?

The next time Blair or Bush stand before the world and preach of the
virtue of their war, try to remember the last moments of Jean Charles
de Menezes:

"He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered
rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified."
But the truth is, there have been thousands of such moments in
Afghanistan and Iraq. . .

But you would think that maybe, with one of these corpses right there
at his own rush hour feet, a decent *Christian* chap like Tony Blair
might stop for a moment, might reflect upon the crime. . .might pause
his part in the *War on Terror* for a whole minute or two and ask
himself if he's chosen the correct course. After all, it was only the
day before the pointless murder of the Brazilian electrician that Mr.
Blair had bragged on himself and his fellow countrymen for their
response to the subway attacks:

"It doesn't change us. It is not going to change what we do. To react
in any other way is to engage in the game they want us to engage in."

So in haste, so in panic, so in a *rush to judgment,* the state murders
a Brazilian electrician. . .and winks at its own crime. Just as the
Anglo-Saxon states have winked at their thousands of murders in
Afghanistan and Iraq (which, if one gives a very generous benefit of
doubt to the Powers That Be, is the result of the haste, panic and rush
to judgment after the famous *9/11*). And while the Anglo-Saxon powers
have never been saintly, there has been a post-*9/11* change, contrary
to Mr. Blair's claims: the veneers of humanitarianism, rationality and
the respect for truth have been stripped away. The helter-skelter
murder of Jean Charles de Menezes is one more symptom of post-*9/11*
Anglo-Saxon criminal irrationality, joining the Afghan Convoy of Death,
*Gitmo,* Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, etc.

The *War on Terror* has always been ugly . . .now it is not only ugly,
but a farce, as well. . .a gruesome farce. . .idiot cops chasing
*terror* shadows. . .shooting stray coloreds, then scraping away the
mess and issuing, as London Metropolitan Police Chief Ian Blair did,
the following chillingly banal paradox of the *War on the Terror:*

"Somebody else could be shot. But everything is done to make it right.
.. ."

Conclusion at:

http://hometown.aol.com/thejman99

London Tube Murder
 

wrote:
@@@@@
Daily Mirror, 25 July 2005: Ian Blair insisted yesterday police
shoot-to-kill rules of engagement were necessary to protect lives. The
Met police chief faced off critics as he apologised for the shocking
blunder in which innocent Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was
shot dead by officers hunting the London bombers. Jean, 27, was blasted
five times in the head. Sir Ian said: "We're quite comfortable the
policy is right but these are difficult times. They (the rules) have to
be that. There's no point in shooting at someone's chest because that's
where a bomb is likely to be. . .The only way to deal with it is to
shoot to the head."
@@@@@@

Tsk, tsk. . .so it has come to this: The Great Anglo-Saxon Powers claim
their *War on Terror* strategy from George A. Romero's zombie hunting
handbook.

Nearly as appalling as the senseless murder of de Menezes is the
complete lack of reflection on the part of the Anglo-Saxon Powers. This
brutal murder is the *War on Terror* in microcosm. Ever since *9/11,*
the *coalition of the willing* have been scrambling around from
Afghanistan to Iraq like trigger happy Keystone Kops, killing thousands
and thousands of dark-skinned others in an unending series of
*regrettable mistakes.*

After last Thursday's dud *terror* attack on the London subway, limey
Prime Minister Tony Blair opined about the *evil ones*:

"Everyone is canny enough to know what these people are trying to do -
whoever is responsible for this latest incident - and that is to
intimidate people and to scare them and to frighten them, to stop them
going about their normal business."

Less than 24 hours later, fear was frozen on the face of a remarkably
unfortunate Brazilian electrician named Jean Charles de Menezes. .
.here is how this man was exited from the Land of the Living:

"As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left
to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a
cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified," said eyewitness Mike
Whitby. "He sort of tripped but they were hotly pursuing him and
couldn't have been more than two or three feet behind him at this time.
He half-tripped, was half-pushed to the floor. The policeman nearest to
me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand, he held it down to
the guy and unloaded five shots into him."

Mr. Blair, just who is terrorizing who?

The next time Blair or Bush stand before the world and preach of the
virtue of their war, try to remember the last moments of Jean Charles
de Menezes:

"He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered
rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified."
But the truth is, there have been thousands of such moments in
Afghanistan and Iraq. . .

But you would think that maybe, with one of these corpses right there
at his own rush hour feet, a decent *Christian* chap like Tony Blair
might stop for a moment, might reflect upon the crime. . .might pause
his part in the *War on Terror* for a whole minute or two and ask
himself if he's chosen the correct course. After all, it was only the
day before the pointless murder of the Brazilian electrician that Mr.
Blair had bragged on himself and his fellow countrymen for their
response to the subway attacks:

"It doesn't change us. It is not going to change what we do. To react
in any other way is to engage in the game they want us to engage in."

So in haste, so in panic, so in a *rush to judgment,* the state murders
a Brazilian electrician. . .and winks at its own crime. Just as the
Anglo-Saxon states have winked at their thousands of murders in
Afghanistan and Iraq (which, if one gives a very generous benefit of
doubt to the Powers That Be, is the result of the haste, panic and rush
to judgment after the famous *9/11*). And while the Anglo-Saxon powers
have never been saintly, there has been a post-*9/11* change, contrary
to Mr. Blair's claims: the veneers of humanitarianism, rationality and
the respect for truth have been stripped away. The helter-skelter
murder of Jean Charles de Menezes is one more symptom of post-*9/11*
Anglo-Saxon criminal irrationality, joining the Afghan Convoy of Death,
*Gitmo,* Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, etc.

The *War on Terror* has always been ugly . . .now it is not only ugly,
but a farce, as well. . .a gruesome farce. . .idiot cops chasing
*terror* shadows. . .shooting stray coloreds, then scraping away the
mess and issuing, as London Metropolitan Police Chief Ian Blair did,
the following chillingly banal paradox of the *War on the Terror:*

"Somebody else could be shot. But everything is done to make it right.
. ."

Conclusion at:

http://hometown.aol.com/thejman99

I cannot write how I feel when I think what happened to him or what
went through his mind. If these bombings never happened I can
understand the uproar but why run in the first place and why run into
the Underground ? We know these bombers are intent on killing civilians
- can the police take the chance ? I feel so sorry for what happened to
him.

London Tube Murder
 

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:13:24 -0700, thejman99 wrote:

@@@@@
Daily Mirror, 25 July 2005: Ian Blair insisted yesterday police
shoot-to-kill rules of engagement were necessary to protect lives. The Met
police chief faced off critics as he apologised for the shocking blunder
in which innocent Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was shot dead by
officers hunting the London bombers. Jean, 27, was blasted five times in
the head. Sir Ian said: "We're quite comfortable the policy is right but
these are difficult times. They (the rules) have to be that. There's no
point in shooting at someone's chest because that's where a bomb is likely
to be. . .The only way to deal with it is to shoot to the head."
@@@@@@

Tsk, tsk. . .so it has come to this: The Great Anglo-Saxon Powers claim
their *War on Terror* strategy from George A. Romero's zombie hunting
handbook.

Nearly as appalling as the senseless murder of de Menezes is the complete
lack of reflection on the part of the Anglo-Saxon Powers. This brutal
murder is the *War on Terror* in microcosm. Ever since *9/11,* the
*coalition of the willing* have been scrambling around from Afghanistan to
Iraq like trigger happy Keystone Kops, killing thousands and thousands of
dark-skinned others in an unending series of *regrettable mistakes.*

After last Thursday's dud *terror* attack on the London subway, limey
Prime Minister Tony Blair opined about the *evil ones*:

I agree, the world would be nicer if everyone got on, stopping insulting
other nations would be a start.

London Tube Murder
 

On 26 Jul 2005 11:55:39 -0700, wrote:

I cannot write how I feel when I think what happened to him or what
went through his mind. If these bombings never happened I can
understand the uproar but why run in the first place and why run into
the Underground ? We know these bombers are intent on killing civilians
- can the police take the chance ? I feel so sorry for what happened to
him.

Imagine you've left your flat and travelled three miles - including
part of the journey on a bus - and nothing unusual has happened to
you. You get inside the Tube station, and are in the process of
buying a ticket when suddenly a gang of men in plain-clothes come
running in waving guns and _not_ (apparently) identifying themselves
as police. Are you positive you wouldn't panic and run for you live?
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

London Tube Murder
 

And another one who wont explain why this illegal immigrant in fear of
his life didn't ask the police at Stockwell for protection. When is one
of these ****s going to answer the question.

Kevin

London Tube Murder
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
And another one who wont explain why this illegal immigrant in fear of
his life didn't ask the police at Stockwell for protection. When is one
of these ****s going to answer the question.

Kevin


Well said that man

London Tube Murder
 

In message , at 07:39:08 on Wed, 27
Jul 2005, Nick Cooper
remarked:
Imagine you've left your flat and travelled three miles - including
part of the journey on a bus - and nothing unusual has happened to
you. You get inside the Tube station, and are in the process of
buying a ticket when suddenly a gang of men in plain-clothes come
running in waving guns and _not_ (apparently) identifying themselves
as police. Are you positive you wouldn't panic and run for you live?

Hypothetical, if what really happened was:

"As Mr Menezes waited to cross the busy main road, the decision was
taken at Scotland Yard that he must not be allowed to get to the
platform.

The marksmen were told: if you think he has explosives under his coat
and he fails to heed shouted warnings, then you must shoot to kill.

As the three plain-clothes officers closed in on Mr Menezes, they say
that they screamed their first warning that they were armed police.
Their version is that he turned, ran into the station concourse, vaulted
the ticket barriers and reached a waiting train before they could catch
him."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...707480,00.html
--
Roland Perry

London Tube Murder
 

wrote:
@@@@@
Daily Mirror, 25 July 2005: Ian Blair insisted yesterday police
shoot-to-kill rules of engagement were necessary to protect lives. The
Met police chief faced off critics as he apologised for the shocking
blunder in which innocent Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was
shot dead by officers hunting the London bombers. Jean, 27, was blasted
five times in the head. Sir Ian said: "We're quite comfortable the
policy is right but these are difficult times. They (the rules) have to
be that. There's no point in shooting at someone's chest because that's
where a bomb is likely to be. . .The only way to deal with it is to
shoot to the head."
@@@@@@

Tsk, tsk. . .so it has come to this: The Great Anglo-Saxon Powers claim
their *War on Terror* strategy from George A. Romero's zombie hunting
handbook.

Nearly as appalling as the senseless murder of de Menezes is the
complete lack of reflection on the part of the Anglo-Saxon Powers. This
brutal murder is the *War on Terror* in microcosm. Ever since *9/11,*
the *coalition of the willing* have been scrambling around from
Afghanistan to Iraq like trigger happy Keystone Kops, killing thousands
and thousands of dark-skinned others in an unending series of
*regrettable mistakes.*

After last Thursday's dud *terror* attack on the London subway, limey
Prime Minister Tony Blair opined about the *evil ones*:

"Everyone is canny enough to know what these people are trying to do -
whoever is responsible for this latest incident - and that is to
intimidate people and to scare them and to frighten them, to stop them
going about their normal business."

Less than 24 hours later, fear was frozen on the face of a remarkably
unfortunate Brazilian electrician named Jean Charles de Menezes. .
.here is how this man was exited from the Land of the Living:

"As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left
to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a
cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified," said eyewitness Mike
Whitby. "He sort of tripped but they were hotly pursuing him and
couldn't have been more than two or three feet behind him at this time.
He half-tripped, was half-pushed to the floor. The policeman nearest to
me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand, he held it down to
the guy and unloaded five shots into him."

Mr. Blair, just who is terrorizing who?

The next time Blair or Bush stand before the world and preach of the
virtue of their war, try to remember the last moments of Jean Charles
de Menezes:

"He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered
rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified."
But the truth is, there have been thousands of such moments in
Afghanistan and Iraq. . .

But you would think that maybe, with one of these corpses right there
at his own rush hour feet, a decent *Christian* chap like Tony Blair
might stop for a moment, might reflect upon the crime. . .might pause
his part in the *War on Terror* for a whole minute or two and ask
himself if he's chosen the correct course. After all, it was only the
day before the pointless murder of the Brazilian electrician that Mr.
Blair had bragged on himself and his fellow countrymen for their
response to the subway attacks:

"It doesn't change us. It is not going to change what we do. To react
in any other way is to engage in the game they want us to engage in."

So in haste, so in panic, so in a *rush to judgment,* the state murders
a Brazilian electrician. . .and winks at its own crime. Just as the
Anglo-Saxon states have winked at their thousands of murders in
Afghanistan and Iraq (which, if one gives a very generous benefit of
doubt to the Powers That Be, is the result of the haste, panic and rush
to judgment after the famous *9/11*). And while the Anglo-Saxon powers
have never been saintly, there has been a post-*9/11* change, contrary
to Mr. Blair's claims: the veneers of humanitarianism, rationality and
the respect for truth have been stripped away. The helter-skelter
murder of Jean Charles de Menezes is one more symptom of post-*9/11*
Anglo-Saxon criminal irrationality, joining the Afghan Convoy of Death,
*Gitmo,* Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, etc.

The *War on Terror* has always been ugly . . .now it is not only ugly,
but a farce, as well. . .a gruesome farce. . .idiot cops chasing
*terror* shadows. . .shooting stray coloreds, then scraping away the
mess and issuing, as London Metropolitan Police Chief Ian Blair did,
the following chillingly banal paradox of the *War on the Terror:*

"Somebody else could be shot. But everything is done to make it right.
. ."

Conclusion at:

http://hometown.aol.com/thejman99

It looks to me like you are guilty of 'rushing to judgement' in
condemning the actions of the police based only on a single eyewitness
account. Are you sure you know the whole story?

London Tube Murder
 

On 26 Jul 2005 10:13:24 -0700, wrote:

... it has come to this: The Great Anglo-Saxon Powers claim ...

I can't really comment on your grip on reality, but your grip on history
is pretty poor.

The last Anglo-Saxon regime came to an end 939 years ago.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9633069.html
(50 018 under the imposing cliffs at Dawlish in 1984)

London Tube Murder
 

London Tube Murder
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:39:08 on Wed, 27
Jul 2005, Nick Cooper
remarked:
Imagine you've left your flat and travelled three miles - including
part of the journey on a bus - and nothing unusual has happened to
you. You get inside the Tube station, and are in the process of
buying a ticket when suddenly a gang of men in plain-clothes come
running in waving guns and _not_ (apparently) identifying themselves
as police. Are you positive you wouldn't panic and run for you live?

Hypothetical, if what really happened was:

"As Mr Menezes waited to cross the busy main road, the decision was
taken at Scotland Yard that he must not be allowed to get to the
platform.

The marksmen were told: if you think he has explosives under his coat
and he fails to heed shouted warnings, then you must shoot to kill.

As the three plain-clothes officers closed in on Mr Menezes, they say
that they screamed their first warning that they were armed police.
Their version is that he turned, ran into the station concourse, vaulted
the ticket barriers and reached a waiting train before they could catch
him."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...707480,00.html

So? The same article states:

"As the three plain-clothes officers closed in on Mr Menezes, they say
that they screamed their first warning that they were armed police.
Their version is that he turned, ran into the station concourse,
vaulted the ticket barriers and reached a waiting train before they
could catch him. They shot him five times in the head when they
believed that he was trying to trigger a bomb."

We now know that he was shot eight times, not the five claimed here, so
why should we accept the rest of "their version" as accurate? Of
course, earlier it states:

"There are eight separate flats in the block. When Mr Menezes emerged
from the communal front door just after 9.30am, the police must have
realised from the photographs they carried that he was not one of the
four bombers. Even so they decided that he was "a likely candidate"
to follow because of his demeanour and colour, so one group set off on
foot after him."

So they knew he wasn't one of the bombers, but despite there being a
one in eight chance of him actually leaving the flat they were
interested in, they decided he was one based on "demeanour and colour."
Of course, the latter is clearly doubtful in light of the photographs
we have now all seen of de Menezes, but "demeanour"? What a huge
get-out clause that is. And, of course, the cousin with whom she
shared a flat is disputing the "bulky, padded jacket" even existed:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711779.stm

"But cousin Patricia Armani said she did not remember him wearing a
padded jacket.

"He didn't use to feel cold. In the winter he even walked on the street
with T-shirt," she told the BBC Brasil.com "

London Tube Murder
 

In message .com, at
05:44:42 on Wed, 27 Jul 2005, remarked:
So if you were in a Tube station, buying a ticket and a load of men
came in screaming unintelligibly and waving guns, you would think,
"Now, what's happening here? Must look around to see if there are any
police officers I can ask for help..." Would you ****. Like most
people, you would run for your life.

On the other hand, if I were outside and started to be pursued by armed
police...
--
Roland Perry

London Tube Murder
 

In message .com, at
05:54:37 on Wed, 27 Jul 2005, remarked:
And, of course, the cousin with whom she
shared a flat is disputing the "bulky, padded jacket" even existed:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711779.stm

"But cousin Patricia Armani said she did not remember him wearing a
padded jacket.

No doubt the inquest will be able to sort that one out. Whether he was,
I mean, not whether his cousin could remember him ever wearing one.

--
Roland Perry

London Tube Murder
 

Roland Perry wrote:

No doubt the inquest will be able to sort that one out. Whether he was,
I mean, not whether his cousin could remember him ever wearing one.


This could be easily cleared up by releasing any surveillance photos
that were taken. Odd that none were released of Menezes yet.

London Tube Murder
 

Are all you people complete f**king idiots. Since the 7 July and
especially since the incident at the adjacent station on the previous
day, each tube station has been ringed by police in very, very bright
yellow jackets. Only a complete idiot could fail to have noticed them.
The guy was not in the ticket hall buying a ticket, he ran in and had
enough presence to vault the gates.
You are dead right that I would run for my life but past goodness knows
how many policemen, vault a 4 foot high barrier, get cornered in tube
train.
Lets face it the guy was a complete and utter (innocent for all the
liberals) idiot.
Reminds me of the idiotic scenaio that you see in so many films that
makes for good movies but you can't help thinking what a pratt, when
being chased you run up a fire escape to the top of a very tall
building and well get stuffed basicly.

Kevin

London Tube Murder
 

BCattivabrutto wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:

No doubt the inquest will be able to sort that one out. Whether he
was, I mean, not whether his cousin could remember him ever
wearing one.


This could be easily cleared up by releasing any surveillance photos
that were taken. Odd that none were released of Menezes yet.

Not odd at all. If a murder or manslaughter charge is made, as the
title of this thread suggests, any surveillance photos would be vital
evidence, and should be presented at the trial, not before.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

London Tube Murder
 

In message . com, at
07:11:16 on Wed, 27 Jul 2005, BCattivabrutto
remarked:
No doubt the inquest will be able to sort that one out. Whether he was,
I mean, not whether his cousin could remember him ever wearing one.

This could be easily cleared up by releasing any surveillance photos
that were taken. Odd that none were released of Menezes yet.

Not really, as there's an investigation (of the incident) under way and
the public doesn't usually get fed the evidence that will be put before
such enquiries. The only photos at this stage are of wanted people.
--
Roland Perry

London Tube Murder
 

London Tube Murder
 

chris harrison wrote:
wrote:
each tube station has been ringed by police in very, very bright
yellow jackets. Only a complete idiot could fail to have noticed
them.

Hands up the complete idiots then. Not every tube station, not every
day. Some stations, some days. Certainly not for all the times I've
made several journeys since.

Whether it was the case at Stockwell that day, I'm not sure I can
say. Have you read otherwise?

I'm sure I read an interview with someone who used Stockwell station
daily, who said that after 7/7 there were always one or two uniformed
police there, but after the attempted bombings on 21/7 there were many
more. (Menedez was shot on 22/7.)
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

London Tube Murder
 

"Bob man" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
And another one who wont explain why this illegal immigrant in fear of
his life didn't ask the police at Stockwell for protection. When is one
of these ****s going to answer the question.

Kevin


Well said that man

Ian Blair keeps telling us that a policeman must make a life or death
decision in a split second and on this occasion they got it wrong. Why is
the same excuse invalid for an innocent man facing a gang of gun toting
thugs?
--
Malcolm

London Tube Murder
 

Malcolm Knight. wrote:
"Bob man" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
And another one who wont explain why this illegal immigrant in fear of
his life didn't ask the police at Stockwell for protection. When is one
of these ****s going to answer the question.

Kevin


Well said that man

Ian Blair keeps telling us that a policeman must make a life or death
decision in a split second and on this occasion they got it wrong. Why is
the same excuse invalid for an innocent man facing a gang of gun toting
thugs?
--
Malcolm

It isn't.

London Tube Murder
 

wrote in message
oups.com...


Malcolm Knight. wrote:
"Bob man" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
And another one who wont explain why this illegal immigrant in fear
of
his life didn't ask the police at Stockwell for protection. When is
one
of these ****s going to answer the question.

Kevin


Well said that man

Ian Blair keeps telling us that a policeman must make a life or death
decision in a split second and on this occasion they got it wrong. Why
is
the same excuse invalid for an innocent man facing a gang of gun toting
thugs?
--
Malcolm

It isn't.

Well let's hope that 'Bob man' and the Independent Police Complaints
Authority understand that as well as you do. BTW, I read somewhere the
proportion of IPCA staff who are ex-coppers still bound by the old pals act.
Well over 50% IIRC.
--
Malcolm

London Tube Murder
 

Malcolm Knight. wrote:
BTW, I read somewhere the proportion of IPCA staff who
are ex-coppers still bound by the old pals act. Well
over 50% IIRC.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) took over from the
Police Complaints Authority (PCA) in April 2004. I don't know about
their staff, but by law IPPC Commissioners must not have a police
background.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

London Tube Murder
 

"Richard J." wrote in message
k...
Malcolm Knight. wrote:
BTW, I read somewhere the proportion of IPCA staff who
are ex-coppers still bound by the old pals act. Well
over 50% IIRC.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) took over from the
Police Complaints Authority (PCA) in April 2004. I don't know about
their staff, but by law IPPC Commissioners must not have a police
background.

It's just been whispered to me that the IPCC has appointed an ex-Met
policeman to head their enquiry into this shooting. The same man who was
accused in a recently published expose of Met corruption which went
unchallenged by anyone in the Met.

--
Malcolm

London Tube Murder
 

In message , Malcolm Knight.
writes

It's just been whispered to me that the IPCC has appointed an ex-Met
policeman to head their enquiry into this shooting.

Why are they whispering?

The IPCC announced several days ago in a widely-reported press statement
that Roy Clark (Director of Operations) would lead the investigation.

--
Paul Terry

London Tube Murder
 

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Malcolm Knight.
writes

It's just been whispered to me that the IPCC has appointed an ex-Met
policeman to head their enquiry into this shooting.

Why are they whispering?

The IPCC announced several days ago in a widely-reported press statement
that Roy Clark (Director of Operations) would lead the investigation.

Did they, sorry I missed that. The info came to me from someone who works
with them, I got the impression it was yet to be announced. Clark has a very
shady past.
--
Malcolm

London Tube Murder
 

Malcolm Knight. wrote:
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Malcolm Knight.
writes

It's just been whispered to me that the IPCC has appointed an
ex-Met policeman to head their enquiry into this shooting.

Why are they whispering?

The IPCC announced several days ago in a widely-reported press
statement that Roy Clark (Director of Operations) would lead the
investigation.

Did they, sorry I missed that. The info came to me from someone who
works with them, I got the impression it was yet to be announced.
Clark has a very shady past.

Put up or shut up. In what way has he a very shady past?

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

London Tube Murder
 

"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...
Malcolm Knight. wrote:
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Malcolm Knight.
writes

It's just been whispered to me that the IPCC has appointed an
ex-Met policeman to head their enquiry into this shooting.

Why are they whispering?

The IPCC announced several days ago in a widely-reported press
statement that Roy Clark (Director of Operations) would lead the
investigation.

Did they, sorry I missed that. The info came to me from someone who
works with them, I got the impression it was yet to be announced.
Clark has a very shady past.

Put up or shut up. In what way has he a very shady past?

If you read the recent 600 page publication "Untouchables; Dirty Cops, Bent
Justice and Racism in Scotland Yard" you will see Clark featured among many
Met policemen who were said to have variously stitched up innocents and
indulged in violence, robberies, drug dealing, conspiracies to murder and
actual murder. This book is freely available for anyone to purchase and read
and names not only the policemen involved, among them Clark, but also the
senior officers involved in the cover ups - including the current and
previous two commisioners.

The authors are still free men who the Met did not see fit to sue for libel.
They did issue a statement saying that there were "a number of inaccuracies"
but my understanding is that when pressed the Met failed to identify any.

The book goes out of its way to tar Clark with an extremely black brush and
it is probably available in your local library (ISBN 1 903813 04 2). Until
such time as the Met refutes its content I am happy to refer to Clark's past
as "shady".

Thank you for biting. :-)
--
Malcolm

London Tube Murder
 

Malcolm Knight. wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...
Malcolm Knight. wrote:
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Malcolm Knight.
writes

It's just been whispered to me that the IPCC has appointed an
ex-Met policeman to head their enquiry into this shooting.

Why are they whispering?

The IPCC announced several days ago in a widely-reported press
statement that Roy Clark (Director of Operations) would lead the
investigation.

Did they, sorry I missed that. The info came to me from someone
who works with them, I got the impression it was yet to be
announced. Clark has a very shady past.

Put up or shut up. In what way has he a very shady past?

If you read the recent 600 page publication "Untouchables; Dirty
Cops, Bent Justice and Racism in Scotland Yard" you will see Clark
featured among many Met policemen who were said to have variously
stitched up innocents and indulged in violence, robberies, drug
dealing, conspiracies to murder and actual murder. This book is
freely available for anyone to purchase and read and names not only
the policemen involved, among them Clark, but also the senior
officers involved in the cover ups - including the current and
previous two commisioners.

The authors are still free men who the Met did not see fit to sue
for libel. They did issue a statement saying that there were "a
number of inaccuracies" but my understanding is that when pressed
the Met failed to identify any.

The book goes out of its way to tar Clark with an extremely black
brush and it is probably available in your local library (ISBN 1
903813 04 2). Until such time as the Met refutes its content I am
happy to refer to Clark's past as "shady".

And I was just thinking how well qualified he seemed to be for his job
at the IPCC ...
Thanks.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

London Tube Murder
 

"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...
Malcolm Knight. wrote:

The book goes out of its way to tar Clark with an extremely black
brush and it is probably available in your local library (ISBN 1
903813 04 2). Until such time as the Met refutes its content I am
happy to refer to Clark's past as "shady".

And I was just thinking how well qualified he seemed to be for his job
at the IPCC ...
Thanks.

It is TBH a very difficult read for someone outside police circles, littered
as it is with the names of corrupt officers and the complex relationships
between various criminal acts by serving policemen and their lies piled upon
lies. Anybody who can get hold of a copy will realise why we sadly cannot
trust anyone in the Met, Blair included. It is alleged that he and his
predecessors are deeply implicated in covering up murder by Met officers and
the fact that the book has never been challenged is deeply disturbing.

I managed to find the publisher's press release on line. AFAICS Clark is the
only officer below the rank of Commisioner who they have singled out to be
named in that release.

http://www.justice4daniel.org/pages/...touchables.htm

My copy cost around £13 from Amazon, I lent it to someone and like all
loaned books it has never come back. :-)
--
Malcolm

London Tube Murder
 

On 27 Jul 2005 07:34:25 -0700, wrote:

Are all you people complete f**king idiots. Since the 7 July and
especially since the incident at the adjacent station on the previous
day, each tube station has been ringed by police in very, very bright
yellow jackets. Only a complete idiot could fail to have noticed them.
The guy was not in the ticket hall buying a ticket, he ran in and had
enough presence to vault the gates.

It is now acknowledged that he did neither of the last two things.

You are dead right that I would run for my life but past goodness knows
how many policemen, vault a 4 foot high barrier, get cornered in tube
train.

He used his Travelcard to get through the barriers as normal, and was
thus well inside the station and well away from any uniformed police
who may have been present.

Lets face it the guy was a complete and utter (innocent for all the
liberals) idiot.

A totally invalid assertion, based as it is on grossly incorrect
details.


--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

London Tube Murder
 

I hoped this anti-fare dodger technique might be working.

London Tube Murder
 

Richard J. wrote:

This could be easily cleared up by releasing any surveillance photos
that were taken. Odd that none were released of Menezes yet.

Not odd at all. If a murder or manslaughter charge is made, as the
title of this thread suggests, any surveillance photos would be vital
evidence, and should be presented at the trial, not before.
--

Well now it seems there may be more sinister reasons for not releasing
the pictures (if they exist or existed). According to the Guardian:

"Evidence of this hold-up should have been provided by CCTV footage
from dozens of cameras covering the Stockwell ticket hall, escalators,
platforms and train carriages.

"However, police now say most of the cameras were not working. Yet
pictures are available of a bombing suspect leaving another station
nearby, and after the 7 July attacks tube boses could have been
expected to make extra efforts to see that all their cameras were in
action.

"The questions are mounting. Initial claims that de Menezes was
targeted because he was wearing a bulky coat, refused to stop when
challenged and then vaulted the ticket barriers have all turned out to
be false. He was wearing a denim jacket, used a standard Oyster
electronic card to get into the station and simply walked towards the
platform unchallenged."