Oystercard auto top-up
 

Just got my oystercard statement, and it has changed to include a box
for auto-topup status, which suggests that this may be launched
sometime soon.

Oystercard auto top-up
 

Matthew Dickinson wrote:
Just got my oystercard statement, and it has changed to include a box
for auto-topup status, which suggests that this may be launched
sometime soon.

That's very interesting. There's a similar 'auto-refill' system
available on the new easyMobile Pay-As-You-Go mobile phone network,
where when you're balance falls below £2 then it is automatically
topped up by a preset amount from your stored credit/debit card.

Obviously if an Oyster auto-topup system is implemented, then the new
balance would only be loaded to your card when you passed through the
gates at your nominated Tube station, as happens at present when you
top-up your card online.

As well as being useful for some travellers, if an auto-topup system
was introduced this would add to the potential appeal of Oyster as an
e-Money system, as it'd ensure that Oyster card holders never ran out
of credit when they want to buy a newspaper/pint of milk etc.

TfL press release on the potential Oyster e-Money scheme:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...nt.asp?prID=14

Oystercard auto top-up
 

On 28 Jul 2005 03:06:46 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

That's very interesting. There's a similar 'auto-refill' system
available on the new easyMobile Pay-As-You-Go mobile phone network,
where when you're balance falls below £2 then it is automatically
topped up by a preset amount from your stored credit/debit card.

Obviously if an Oyster auto-topup system is implemented, then the new
balance would only be loaded to your card when you passed through the
gates at your nominated Tube station, as happens at present when you
top-up your card online.

As well as being useful for some travellers, if an auto-topup system
was introduced this would add to the potential appeal of Oyster as an
e-Money system, as it'd ensure that Oyster card holders never ran out
of credit when they want to buy a newspaper/pint of milk etc.

TfL press release on the potential Oyster e-Money scheme:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...nt.asp?prID=14

Is it potentially possible foy Oyster pre-pay to be topped up when
using a bus Oyster reader? I can't use my Oyster on the tube cos I get
priv fares, but the top-idea sounds a good idea.

Oystercard auto top-up
 

wrote:
snip
Is it potentially possible foy Oyster pre-pay to be topped up when
using a bus Oyster reader?

AIUI this isn't really a feasible idea. The problem is that every
Oyster reader on every bus would have to be programmed with every
potential Oyster users Pre Pay top-up. The number of users (both now
and the potential for many millions more in the future) means the
on-board bus Oyster readers couldn't handle this.

Even if you were to nominate a bus route, this is still impractical.
There are many hundreds of buses that may ply a particular route over
the 7 days that your Pre Pay would be available to pick up, and the
Oyster readers couldn't hold this much information.

There would also be logistical problems when it came to uplinking all
of London's buses every night in a way that'd ensure they all had the
right data for the next day on time.

Even when topping up Pre Pay online and collecting it at a tube
station, you must nominate a station through which you'll travel, and
if you want it available the next day you must top-up online by 11pm
that night in order to ensure the information gets there on time.

See the 'Ask Oyster' website answer he http://tinyurl.com/byv3k


I can't use my Oyster on the tube cos I get priv fares, but the top-idea
sounds a good idea.

What are priv fares?

Oystercard auto top-up
 

As well as being useful for some travellers, if an auto-topup system
was introduced this would add to the potential appeal of Oyster as an
e-Money system, as it'd ensure that Oyster card holders never ran out
of credit when they want to buy a newspaper/pint of milk etc.

Personally, I think that this would lessen the appeal.
If you lost it you might just as well have handed someone
your house keys and said "take what you like"

tim

Oystercard auto top-up
 

tim (moved to sweden) wrote:
As well as being useful for some travellers, if an auto-topup system
was introduced this would add to the potential appeal of Oyster as an
e-Money system, as it'd ensure that Oyster card holders never ran out
of credit when they want to buy a newspaper/pint of milk etc.

Personally, I think that this would lessen the appeal.
If you lost it you might just as well have handed someone
your house keys and said "take what you like"

tim

No - because when you lose your Oyster card, you call the Oyster card
helpline and they block your lost card from being used, then send you a
new one. The new one would be the recipient of the auto-topup credit
from then on, as well as having whatever balance from your lost card
transferred over onto it.

Oystercard auto top-up
 

Is it potentially possible foy Oyster pre-pay to be topped up when
using a bus Oyster reader? I can't use my Oyster on the tube cos I get
priv fares, but the top-idea sounds a good idea.

The automatic top-up seems OK as long as there are some checks and balances
involved, such as limits to how often the top-up can be applied and perhaps
an SMS sent out every time it is applied, just in case cards fall into the
wrong hands.

However if this is the case more has to be done to assist people in
collecting the top-up. I mostly use my Oyster on buses and trams and simply
don't use it on tube gates on a regular basis and I know many are in the
same boat. It would certainly help me if tube stations had Oyster readers
whose sole function was to allow passengers to check the status of their
Oyster cards and collect any top-up. I pass through tube stations quite
regularly but only use paper tickets on the gates.

Oystercard auto top-up
 

Mizter T wrote:
snip
No - because when you lose your Oyster card, you call the Oyster card
helpline and they block your lost card from being used, then send you a
new one. The new one would be the recipient of the auto-topup credit
from then on, as well as having whatever balance from your lost card
transferred over onto it.


Yes, but I doubt if they would pay for any purchases made on your lost
card before you informed them that it was missing. I think most banks
and credit card companies will, providing the user has not been negligent.

Oystercard auto top-up
 

In message , at 19:54:12 on
Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Graham J remarked:
It would certainly help me if tube stations had Oyster readers
whose sole function was to allow passengers to check the status of their
Oyster cards and collect any top-up.

Such readers are already attached to ticket machines at tube stations.
--
Roland Perry

Oystercard auto top-up
 

Paul wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
snip
No - because when you lose your Oyster card, you call the Oyster card
helpline and they block your lost card from being used, then send you a
new one. The new one would be the recipient of the auto-topup credit
from then on, as well as having whatever balance from your lost card
transferred over onto it.


Yes, but I doubt if they would pay for any purchases made on your lost
card before you informed them that it was missing. I think most banks
and credit card companies will, providing the user has not been negligent.

Different banks have differing policies, but yes, as long as you
haven't been negligent and tell them sharpish it seems they'll cover
the cost.

The point here though is that if you lose your Oyster card, it'd be
more akin to losing cash rather than a credit/debit card (which IMO
isn't really the same as giving someone the keys to your house and
saying 'take what you like'!). The person who steals it can only spend
the amount on it, and the system is not designed for you to have a
large balance loaded to your card. I don't know whether there's a limit
to the amount of money you can load on your card when doing so in
person, but there's a £50 maximum when you do so online.

If you were to use the auto-topup system, I'm sure there would be a
similar limit as to the amount the system would take from your
credit/debit card to add to your Oyster card, and if you were concerned
about loss you could make this a lower sum (say £10 or £20 when
needed).

Ultimately, I think that many would find it useful, but of course if
anyone was worried about it then they don't have to use the system.
Indeed I wouldn't recommend it to one of my scatterbrained friends. She
doesn't trust herself with a monthly Travelcard so buys a weekly one,
and she manages to lose an average of at least one a month. She doesn't
have an Oyster card, which is just as well as I reckon the Oyster
system couldn't cope with such consistant incompetence!

Oystercard auto top-up
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
.uk...
In message , at 19:54:12 on Thu, 28 Jul 2005, Graham J
remarked:
It would certainly help me if tube stations had Oyster readers
whose sole function was to allow passengers to check the status of their
Oyster cards and collect any top-up.

Such readers are already attached to ticket machines at tube stations.
--
Roland Perry

Unfortunately those machines do not let you pick up online top-ups.
I know someone who got the impression that he could pick up a travelcard renewal
from the touch screen machine (he wanted to get a bus first that day instead of the tube)
He asked the staff at the station why it hadn't loaded. They said the ticket
hadn't been purchased online properly. Obviously that was not true.
They should have told him to pass through the barriers to collect the ticket. But they didn't.

Oystercard auto top-up
 

In message , at 10:48:30 on Sat,
30 Jul 2005, TKD remarked:
It would certainly help me if tube stations had Oyster readers
whose sole function was to allow passengers to check the status of their
Oyster cards and collect any top-up.

Such readers are already attached to ticket machines at tube stations.

Unfortunately those machines do not let you pick up online top-ups.

Oh dear, that's a bit of an oversight!
--
Roland Perry

Oystercard auto top-up
 

Mizter T wrote:
snip

Ultimately, I think that many would find it useful, but of course if
anyone was worried about it then they don't have to use the system.
Indeed I wouldn't recommend it to one of my scatterbrained friends. She
doesn't trust herself with a monthly Travelcard so buys a weekly one,
and she manages to lose an average of at least one a month. She doesn't
have an Oyster card, which is just as well as I reckon the Oyster
system couldn't cope with such consistant incompetence!

I don't really see any advantage of using an Oyster card as electronic
cash, over a debit card. Since TfL regards these as a possible source of
extra revenue, presumably retailers would have to pay some charge, in
the same way as they do when they accept credit cards.

As for losing Travel cards, I've lost one monthly and one weekly in a
ten-year period. I don't know if you still do, but you could get a
replacement for a monthly and also claim for any tickets that you
purchase while waiting for the new card. There was no replacement for
the weekly. Of course, you can't get a monthly now: that's why I had to
get an Oystercard.

Oystercard auto top-up
 

Paul wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
snip


Ultimately, I think that many would find it useful, but of course if
anyone was worried about it then they don't have to use the system.
Indeed I wouldn't recommend it to one of my scatterbrained friends. She
doesn't trust herself with a monthly Travelcard so buys a weekly one,
and she manages to lose an average of at least one a month. She doesn't
have an Oyster card, which is just as well as I reckon the Oyster
system couldn't cope with such consistant incompetence!

I don't really see any advantage of using an Oyster card as electronic
cash, over a debit card. Since TfL regards these as a possible source of
extra revenue, presumably retailers would have to pay some charge, in
the same way as they do when they accept credit cards.

I thought that the extra revenue would come from the interest on holding
thousands of pounds' worth of extra prepay in whichever bank they use,
but I don't know much about that financial stuff...


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Oystercard auto top-up
 

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 11:40:48 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:

I thought that the extra revenue would come from the interest on holding
thousands of pounds' worth of extra prepay in whichever bank they use,
but I don't know much about that financial stuff...

You're right. Money that is just "waiting around" can be a very good
source of income, if actively managed. I used to work for a large
insurance company that made a tidy sum out of depositing money with a
merchant bank on the other side of the world just for a few *hours* each
night and over weekends (just because our banks are closed, it doesn't
follow that everyone else's are!)
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9680331.html
(86 101 under the Shopping Centre's concrete columns, New Street, 1982)

Oystercard auto top-up
 

Paul wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
snip

Ultimately, I think that many would find it useful, but of course if
anyone was worried about it then they don't have to use the system.
Indeed I wouldn't recommend it to one of my scatterbrained friends. She
doesn't trust herself with a monthly Travelcard so buys a weekly one,
and she manages to lose an average of at least one a month. She doesn't
have an Oyster card, which is just as well as I reckon the Oyster
system couldn't cope with such consistant incompetence!

I don't really see any advantage of using an Oyster card as electronic
cash, over a debit card. Since TfL regards these as a possible source of
extra revenue, presumably retailers would have to pay some charge, in
the same way as they do when they accept credit cards.


You ask why use Oyster as an e-money system when a debit card can be
used? I wouldn't use a debit card to buy a newspaper or a pint of milk
- indeed, the shop keeper wouldn't allow it. The Oyster e-money system
would be aimed at small purchases. A similar system in Hong Kong using
the 'Octopus' transport system smartcard has bee very successful.

The problem with debit card payments are twofold.

(1) Most debit/credit card payments are authorised online which takes
time (i.e. too much faffing around). An Oyster e-money system wouldn't
need to connect to the central database for each transaction. AIUI the
Oyster e-money system would work differently - there'd be no need to
authorise each payment online, the amount would just be debited from
the card straight away. The Oyster terminal in the shop would hold a
list of the blocked (i.e. lost or stolen) Oyster cards that wouldn't
work, and each evening the terminals in the shop would download it's
transaction data to the central database in order to reconcile the
records. I believe this is how the Oyster terminals in newsagents
already work - they are not constantly connected to the central
database, but dial-up each night.

(2) The cost of a debit/credit card transaction levied by the merchant
card services company (i.e. the bank) dissuades shopkeepers from
accepting them for small purchases, and leads many of them to impose a
minimum purchase value and/or a supplementary cost for the priviledge
of using a debit/credit card. I suspect that with any Oyster e-money
system any costs would be smaller, or far more likely there'd be a
different economic model in use, where there would not be a cost for
each transaction.

(I'm no expert, so what follows is just amateur speculation, and
perhaps it doesn't really equate but I'll write it nontheless. The
Oyster e-money system may actually reduce transaction costs with
regards to the flows of money between the newsagents and TfL. At the
moment the newsagents have to forward money to TfL for all the tickets
they sell, presumably keeping a small commission for each sale. In the
future people would also be spending e-money via their Oyster card, so
there'd be a flow of money from TfL to the newsagents. To a certain
extent this would cancel out the flow going the other way. This works
on the presumption that there are two distinct user groups: those
spending e-money in newsagents who have topped up their balance
directly with TfL on the tube - perhaps via the upcoming auto-topup
system; and those who are buying tickets or topping up their Pre Pay at
a newsaganets, who pay with cash.)


Anyhow, I'm sure that enough people would find an Oyster e-money system
useful and I reckon it'd be pretty successful. Though for those wary of
Big Brother it'd be something to steer clear of.