Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

I couldn't find the Oyster card points at Olympia last night (probably
because I was fuelled by 10 pints of Great British Ale) ... I honestly did
go back to take a look. Anyway, when I got to my destination I spoke to an
underground bloke who let me through with the words "You've saved yourself a
lot of money". So, my question is, how much is the fine for not scanning in
& out and only doing it on the way out. I guess maximum fare, but what is
that?

Thanks

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

"elyob" typed


I couldn't find the Oyster card points at Olympia last night (probably
because I was fuelled by 10 pints of Great British Ale) ... I honestly did
go back to take a look. Anyway, when I got to my destination I spoke to an
underground bloke who let me through with the words "You've saved
yourself a
lot of money". So, my question is, how much is the fine for not scanning in
& out and only doing it on the way out. I guess maximum fare, but what is
that?

Thanks


The £20 Penalty Fare I believe... (not the 6 zone top whack fare.
Off-peak, thats only £2 anyway)

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message
...
"elyob" typed


I couldn't find the Oyster card points at Olympia last night (probably
because I was fuelled by 10 pints of Great British Ale) ... I honestly
did
go back to take a look. Anyway, when I got to my destination I spoke to
an
underground bloke who let me through with the words "You've saved
yourself a
lot of money". So, my question is, how much is the fine for not scanning
in
& out and only doing it on the way out. I guess maximum fare, but what is
that?

Thanks


The £20 Penalty Fare I believe... (not the 6 zone top whack fare.
Off-peak, thats only £2 anyway)

Phew! Any idea where the Oyster points are at Olympia, I really couldn't
find them!

I was considering slipping through behind my mate, but decided honesty was
the best policy. In the state I was in, I'm impressed the bloke took me
seriously!

This all started because the stupid machine at my local railway station sold
me a cheap day return and not a travelcard [1]. So, all in all, with my £2
to get to olympia and my £4 cheap day return, I ended up paying a travelcard
price. So am happy enough with the result, and glad I didn't end up paying
£26.

Nick

[1] The button said "Cheap Day Return/Travelcard" and I pressed "London".
Maybe I didn't read it properly.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

You've got to remember that altough penalty fares do exist for most of
the time, you can still get much tougher treatment such as a court
summons to explain your actions which in turn could lead to hefty fines
and a criminal record.

You'll usually know it's the case when a revenue protection inspector
is accompanied by a police officer (for their protection now doubt
rather than to arrest you!)

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

The £20 Penalty Fare I believe

Must have changed, I've been in the situation where I've boarded at
Ealing after a transfer from a FGWL, bleeped in on the platform on my
run to the train, but it didn't register.

Got charged about £3.xx when I got to white city.

As for the Olympia oyster readers, they aren't very clear as they
aren't by the gate entrance, they are on the platform about 1/3 and 2/3
down the car.

How do you touch in if there are RPIs on the platform entrance?

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

elyob wrote:
I couldn't find the Oyster card points at Olympia last night (probably
because I was fuelled by 10 pints of Great British Ale) ... I honestly did
go back to take a look. Anyway, when I got to my destination I spoke to an
underground bloke who let me through with the words "You've saved yourself a
lot of money". So, my question is, how much is the fine for not scanning in
& out and only doing it on the way out. I guess maximum fare, but what is
that?

Thanks

What's not quite clear from your post is whether or not you touched
your Oyster card on a reader on your way out (i.e. when you spoke to
the member of staff at your destination station)?

Anyway you may have found one of the chinks in the Oyster card armour
that I realised existed in the early days of Pre Pay, but haven't
posted about before because... well, just because.

Technically if you have enetered a station without a valid ticket or
having validated your Oyster card (as you did) you are liable to a £20
penalty fare. However you'll only be the recipient of this dubious
honour if your ticket or Oyster card is checked en-route by a Revenue
Protection Inspector, which is not that common an event when travelling
on the Underground (especially late in the evening).

Instead if you don't touch in, but instead only touch out when leaving
the system (i.e. either go through some automatic gates or touch your
card on the reader) then London Underground, in it's Oyster card
publicity (and in this Ask Oyster - http://tinyurl.com/7fftw) states
that "you are likely to pay more than you need for your journeys".

This would seem to suggest that if you don't touch in and touch out on
each trip then you'll get charged the maximum possible fare of £3.50,
or £2.00 after 7pm and at weekends [1]. The logic being that unless
you explicitly inform the system of your start and end points (by
touching in and out), then you could've travelled through all six zones
and you should be charged as such.

Whilst I've heard of this happening to people, when I've forgotten to
both touch in or out I've found that I've been charged the lowest
possible fare from the station (as opposed to the highest). Indeed I
did this very recently and only been charged £1.10, as opposed to
£3.50. If you do this you'll notice that it's recorded on your card as
an 'Incomplete Journey' if you view your journey history on a ticket
machine.

Perhaps Oyster readers at some stations are programmed to charge the
full whack, whilst others are more leniant?


[1] I am aware that there are higher possible fares for journeys
including Zones A-D on the Met, but I think it's unlikely that you'd be
charged these as a penalty for failing to touch-in or touch-out -
unless you only touched-in or touched-out at one of the Zone A-D
stations.)

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

elyob wrote:
I couldn't find the Oyster card points at Olympia last night (probably
because I was fuelled by 10 pints of Great British Ale) ... I honestly did
go back to take a look. Anyway, when I got to my destination I spoke to an
underground bloke who let me through with the words "You've saved yourself a
lot of money". So, my question is, how much is the fine for not scanning in
& out and only doing it on the way out. I guess maximum fare, but what is
that?

Thanks

What's not quite clear from your post is whether or not you touched
your Oyster card on a reader on your way out (i.e. when you spoke to
the member of staff at your destination station)?

Technically if you have enetered a station without a valid ticket or
having validated your Oyster card (as you did) you are liable to a £20
penalty fare. However you'll only be the recipient of this dubious
honour if your ticket or Oyster card is checked en-route by a Revenue
Protection Inspector, which is not that common an event when travelling
on the Underground (especially late in the evening).

Instead if you don't touch in, but instead only touch out when leaving
the system (i.e. either go through some automatic gates or touch your
card on the reader) then London Underground, in it's Oyster card
publicity (and in this Ask Oyster - http://tinyurl.com/7fftw) states
that "you are likely to pay more than you need for your journeys".

This would seem to suggest that if you don't touch in and touch out on
each trip then you'll get charged the maximum possible fare of £3.50,
or £2.00 after 7pm and at weekends [1]. The logic being that unless
you explicitly inform the system of your start and end points (by
touching in and out), then you could've travelled through all six zones
and you should be charged as such.

Whilst I've heard of this happening to people, when I've forgotten to
both touch in or out I've found that I've been charged the lowest
possible fare from the station (as opposed to the highest). Indeed I
did this very recently and only been charged £1.10, as opposed to
£3.50. If you do this you'll notice that it's recorded on your card as
an 'Incomplete Journey' if you view your journey history on a ticket
machine.

Perhaps Oyster readers at some stations are programmed to charge the
full whack, whilst others are more leniant?


[1] I am aware that there are higher possible fares for journeys
including Zones A-D on the Met, but I think it's unlikely that you'd be
charged these as a penalty for failing to touch-in or touch-out -
unless you only touched-in or touched-out at one of the Zone A-D
stations.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

Technically if you have enetered a station without a valid ticket or
having validated your Oyster card (as you did) you are liable to a £20
penalty fare.

On TV a while ago a Tube Revenue Inspector mentioned that they almost
always report everyone they catch for fare evasion to appear in court
unless they are not resident in this country or have a reasonable
excuse.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

elyob wrote:

Phew! Any idea where the Oyster points are at Olympia, I really couldn't
find them!

There are two.

They are on the platform, a little way down. I remember them being by
the side of a shelter or something.


Tim

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

In article ,
Tim Bray wrote:
elyob wrote:

Phew! Any idea where the Oyster points are at Olympia, I really couldn't
find them!

There are two.

They are on the platform, a little way down. I remember them being by
the side of a shelter or something.

They are (roughly) opposite the red light at the end of the LuL track.

(I quite liked the Exmoor Gold...)

--
Mike Bristow - really a very good driver

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

Perhaps Oyster readers at some stations are programmed to charge the
full whack, whilst others are more leniant?

If you only touch your Oyster Card at the start or end of a journey you
are always charged the minumum fare from that station at that time.
However, it will not count towards any price capping calculation.

So if you have been capped at Zone1-6 and make a further journey
where you only touch at one end, you will pay more than you need to.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tim Bray wrote:
elyob wrote:

Phew! Any idea where the Oyster points are at Olympia, I really couldn't
find them!

There are two.

They are on the platform, a little way down. I remember them being by
the side of a shelter or something.

They are (roughly) opposite the red light at the end of the LuL track.

(I quite liked the Exmoor Gold...)

I liked far too many! .. But I have to say .. at 10.30pm, how am I meant to
get that far up the platform when 5,000 people are getting turned out at the
same time?

Fortunately, I paid my due fare. I wouldn't want to jump the fair, but they
could move an Oyster reader at the beginning?

Of course, that'd be just too sensible.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

In article ,
elyob wrote:

They are (roughly) opposite the red light at the end of the LuL track.

(I quite liked the Exmoor Gold...)

I liked far too many! .. But I have to say .. at 10.30pm, how am I meant to
get that far up the platform when 5,000 people are getting turned out at the
same time?

Sorry, I should be clearer.

The oyster readers are about opposite the fixed red light which
marks where the track ends. In other words, (roughly) opposite
where the driver sits when he is driving his train into the station,
nearest the end by the exhibition hall.

This is a little way into the station, but you obviously have to
pass this point in order to get onto a LuL train.


--
Mike Bristow - really a very good driver

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

TKD wrote:
Perhaps Oyster readers at some stations are programmed to charge the
full whack, whilst others are more leniant?

If you only touch your Oyster Card at the start or end of a journey you
are always charged the minumum fare from that station at that time.
However, it will not count towards any price capping calculation.

So if you have been capped at Zone1-6 and make a further journey
where you only touch at one end, you will pay more than you need to.

Getting charged the minimum fare is what I've experienced. However in
another post in this thread from Paul Weaver [1] he states that he got
charged £3.xx (he wasn't sure of the exact amount) when he only
touched out, which is why I wondered if the programming of the Oyster
readers might vary from station to station.

It makes sense that price capping requires you to touch in and touch
out in order to make an accurate calculation.

However if someone is just using their Oyster card for one or two trips
on the tube on one day there just isn't any incentive to touch out if
they can avoid doing so, i.e. at stations where the barriers are open
or there are no barriers, just Oyster readers (such as at Kensington
Olympia). If they were to touch out they'd end up paying more.


[1]
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....cf502f0?hl=en&

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
In article ,
elyob wrote:

They are (roughly) opposite the red light at the end of the LuL track.

(I quite liked the Exmoor Gold...)

I liked far too many! .. But I have to say .. at 10.30pm, how am I meant
to
get that far up the platform when 5,000 people are getting turned out at
the
same time?

Sorry, I should be clearer.

The oyster readers are about opposite the fixed red light which
marks where the track ends. In other words, (roughly) opposite
where the driver sits when he is driving his train into the station,
nearest the end by the exhibition hall.

This is a little way into the station, but you obviously have to
pass this point in order to get onto a LuL train.



Pretty silly place to put them, why not make them blindingly obvious? The
problem still was that I was looking at where everyone else buys their
tickets, and there were probably 30 people standing in front of where you
are talking about. The tube was totally packed, so you can imagine the
commotion.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

Getting charged the minimum fare is what I've experienced. However in
another post in this thread from Paul Weaver [1] he states that he got
charged £3.xx (he wasn't sure of the exact amount) when he only
touched out, which is why I wondered if the programming of the Oyster
readers might vary from station to station.

[1]
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....cf502f0?hl=en&

Under normal cicumstances when you touch-in to the system the minimum
fare is deducted at that point and then when you touch-out any extra is charged.

If you only touch at one end of the journey and use a validator instead of
a gate the system will assume you are touching-in even if it is really the "end"
of your journey. It will deduct the minumum fare only expecting you to touch-out
somewhere else later.

If you do not touch-in but later touch-out through a gateline the system will
know you have missed touching-in. Perhaps in these situations the maximum
is charged. I'm not sure though.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

In message .com, at
08:52:08 on Thu, 4 Aug 2005, Joe remarked:
Technically if you have enetered a station without a valid ticket or
having validated your Oyster card (as you did) you are liable to a £20
penalty fare.

On TV a while ago a Tube Revenue Inspector mentioned that they almost
always report everyone they catch for fare evasion to appear in court
unless they are not resident in this country or have a reasonable
excuse.

As a long time Travelcard user who has "converted" to Oyster, I do find
it *very* difficult to remember to touch-in at places like DLR stations.
Not helped by them hiding the points. If they could be bothered to
provide gates, it wouldn't be an issue.

Of course, having failed to touch-in you wreck the capping, and end up
paying *more* than you would otherwise have done. Would they really send
someone to court for paying too much?
--
Roland Perry

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

Roland Perry wrote:
In message .com, at
08:52:08 on Thu, 4 Aug 2005, Joe remarked:
Technically if you have enetered a station without a valid ticket or
having validated your Oyster card (as you did) you are liable to a £20
penalty fare.

On TV a while ago a Tube Revenue Inspector mentioned that they almost
always report everyone they catch for fare evasion to appear in court
unless they are not resident in this country or have a reasonable
excuse.

As a long time Travelcard user who has "converted" to Oyster, I do find
it *very* difficult to remember to touch-in at places like DLR stations.
Not helped by them hiding the points. If they could be bothered to
provide gates, it wouldn't be an issue.

Of course, having failed to touch-in you wreck the capping, and end up
paying *more* than you would otherwise have done. Would they really send
someone to court for paying too much?
--
Roland Perry

It's not clear from what you say whether you are now a Pre Pay user, or
have a Travelcard loaded on your Oyster card.

I'm sure you know this already, so apologies if I'm being patronising,
but just in case you don't:

*If* you have a Travelcard loaded to your Oyster card *and* you're
travelling within the zonal validity of that Travelcard then you don't
need to touch-in and touch-out (on either the DLR or the Tube). If
you're going outside of your Travelcard's zonal validity then you'll
need to touch-in and touch-out in order to have the correct extra fare
deducted.


But I agree with your basic point regarding the potential to forget to
touch-in or indeed touch-out. This is probably why TfL has decided
that, for the moment at least, if you fail to touch out you'll only get
charged the minimum fare that applies at your starting station. Though,
as you say, should you qualify for a price cap you can still miss out
by failing to always touch-out.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

In message .com, at
09:32:40 on Fri, 5 Aug 2005, Mizter T remarked:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message .com, at
08:52:08 on Thu, 4 Aug 2005, Joe remarked:
Technically if you have enetered a station without a valid ticket or
having validated your Oyster card (as you did) you are liable to a £20
penalty fare.

On TV a while ago a Tube Revenue Inspector mentioned that they almost
always report everyone they catch for fare evasion to appear in court
unless they are not resident in this country or have a reasonable
excuse.

As a long time Travelcard user who has "converted" to Oyster, I do find
it *very* difficult to remember to touch-in at places like DLR stations.
Not helped by them hiding the points. If they could be bothered to
provide gates, it wouldn't be an issue.

Of course, having failed to touch-in you wreck the capping, and end up
paying *more* than you would otherwise have done. Would they really send
someone to court for paying too much?

It's not clear from what you say whether you are now a Pre Pay user, or
have a Travelcard loaded on your Oyster card.

Prepay.

I'm sure you know this already, so apologies if I'm being patronising,
but just in case you don't:

*If* you have a Travelcard loaded to your Oyster card *and* you're
travelling within the zonal validity of that Travelcard then you don't
need to touch-in and touch-out (on either the DLR or the Tube). If
you're going outside of your Travelcard's zonal validity then you'll
need to touch-in and touch-out in order to have the correct extra fare
deducted.

But I agree with your basic point regarding the potential to forget to
touch-in or indeed touch-out. This is probably why TfL has decided
that, for the moment at least, if you fail to touch out you'll only get
charged the minimum fare that applies at your starting station. Though,
as you say, should you qualify for a price cap you can still miss out
by failing to always touch-out.

My lack of capping was due to not touching *in*, apparently.
--
Roland Perry

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

As a long time Travelcard user who has "converted" to Oyster, I do find
it *very* difficult to remember to touch-in at places like DLR stations.
Not helped by them hiding the points. If they could be bothered to
provide gates, it wouldn't be an issue.

I dont know whether the railway group standards extend to the DLR, but
http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/docushare...2/GIRT7015.pdf
requires that all gate installations are monitored at all times, and
most DLR stations are unstaffed.

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

In article ,
elyob wrote:

"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
The oyster readers are about opposite the fixed red light which
marks where the track ends. In other words, (roughly) opposite
where the driver sits when he is driving his train into the station,
nearest the end by the exhibition hall.

Pretty silly place to put them, why not make them blindingly obvious?

Positioned there, then they're available to passengers who get off a
National Rail service from Clapham or Watford.

The
problem still was that I was looking at where everyone else buys their
tickets, and there were probably 30 people standing in front of where you
are talking about. The tube was totally packed, so you can imagine the
commotion.

Yes. Perhaps you should have remembered where you touched out when you
arrived...

--
Mike Bristow - really a very good driver

Oyster & tube .. not scanning in
 

"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
In article ,
elyob wrote:

"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
The oyster readers are about opposite the fixed red light which
marks where the track ends. In other words, (roughly) opposite
where the driver sits when he is driving his train into the station,
nearest the end by the exhibition hall.

Pretty silly place to put them, why not make them blindingly obvious?

Positioned there, then they're available to passengers who get off a
National Rail service from Clapham or Watford.


Quite easily put more at "The Entrance".

The
problem still was that I was looking at where everyone else buys their
tickets, and there were probably 30 people standing in front of where you
are talking about. The tube was totally packed, so you can imagine the
commotion.

Yes. Perhaps you should have remembered where you touched out when you
arrived...


I didn't arrive there. We walked from Earls Court.