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North Finchley Bus Station opens today
It's under the new tower block.... I bet breathing will be fun in there when all the bus engines are running. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
"John Rowland" typed
It's under the new tower block.... I bet breathing will be fun in there when all the bus engines are running. No doubt. The area is so horrid that the M&S 'Simply Food' shop has closed down already... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
"John Rowland" typed
It's under the new tower block.... I bet breathing will be fun in there when all the bus engines are running. I suspect there'll be notices telling the drivers to switch off engines while at the stands, to which the customary attention will be paid... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
John Rowland wrote:
It's under the new tower block.... I bet breathing will be fun in there when all the bus engines are running. Uh-oh. Whose idea was that? I would have invited them to High Wycombe bus station (and depot) which is underneath a multi-storey car park. It's the most horrible place I can think of (and yes, I've been to Slough...). I've heard a lot of talk about hybrid vehicles which switch to electric power in places like high streets where fumes are a big problem. That technology seems to be coming to cars; why don't we have it on buses in this country? It would make life more agreeable in many parts of London; Oxford Street and Knightsbridge spring to mind, as do any bus layovers where the local residents moan a lot (e.g. South End Green in Hampstead). -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:46:21 +0100, Dave Arquati
wrote: John Rowland wrote: It's under the new tower block.... I bet breathing will be fun in there when all the bus engines are running. Uh-oh. Whose idea was that? I would have invited them to High Wycombe bus station (and depot) which is underneath a multi-storey car park. It's the most horrible place I can think of (and yes, I've been to Slough...). Brings back fond memories of the Arndale Centre bus station in Manchester until it was "closed down" by the IRA... |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
"Cheeky" wrote in message
... John Rowland wrote: It's under the new tower block.... I bet breathing will be fun in there when all the bus engines are running. Brings back fond memories of the Arndale Centre bus station in Manchester Which is exactly the bus station I had in mind when I started the thread... until it was "closed down" by the IRA... Everyone talks about the peace dividend, but this is an example of the war dividend! -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:06:53 +0100, Cheeky wrote:
Brings back fond memories of the Arndale Centre bus station in Manchester until it was "closed down" by the IRA... Or Blackpool shudder. On the subject of the Arndale I have no idea why that was actually closed by the bomb - I don't believe it was terminally structurally damaged - I think GMPTE just realised what a hellhole it was and started using the road outside instead, which was hardly a lot better... Some of GMPTE's more recent "big greenhouse" bus stations (e.g. Oldham) seem to me to be the way to go if a bus station is what you actually need rather than just a few strategically-placed good-quality shelters. Preston also isn't bad, just very dated (and is also built under a car park!) The refurbished Chorlton Street in Manchester (OK, it's a coach station) is also rather nice. I think the key is that, regardless of where the passenger accommodation is located, the buses, or at the very least their exhaust pipes, need to be outside, and it's really a lot better if some kind of automatic door is provided between the passenger accommodation and the buses. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:52:00 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: Everyone talks about the peace dividend, but this is an example of the war dividend! Sometimes it takes something very bad to motivate people to get together and do something very good. Manchester, or certainly the bombed part thereof, is a fine example. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
Neil Williams wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:06:53 +0100, Cheeky wrote: Brings back fond memories of the Arndale Centre bus station in Manchester until it was "closed down" by the IRA... Or Blackpool shudder. On the subject of the Arndale I have no idea why that was actually closed by the bomb - I don't believe it was terminally structurally damaged - I think GMPTE just realised what a hellhole it was and started using the road outside instead, which was hardly a lot better... Some of GMPTE's more recent "big greenhouse" bus stations (e.g. Oldham) seem to me to be the way to go if a bus station is what you actually need rather than just a few strategically-placed good-quality shelters. Preston also isn't bad, just very dated (and is also built under a car park!) The refurbished Chorlton Street in Manchester (OK, it's a coach station) is also rather nice. I think the key is that, regardless of where the passenger accommodation is located, the buses, or at the very least their exhaust pipes, need to be outside, and it's really a lot better if some kind of automatic door is provided between the passenger accommodation and the buses. Hammersmith is an excellent example. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
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North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:01:28 +0100, Cheeky wrote:
Although Piccadilly Bus Station is still a total disaster. A skim of the draft Local Transport Plan for Greater Manchester seems to suggest that they are going to re-do it yet again. That''ll be the fourth incarnation in a decade! There's not a lot wrong with it per-se, as far as open-air type bus stations go, but it would benefit from the removal of that stupid concrete wall that serves to hide it rather than making it part of the city centre as it should be. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:27:07 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote: Doesn't said "stupid concrete wall" now contain some variety of cafe in one of the retail units, and the new GMPTE Travel Shop in the other? It might well do, but it's still ugly and inappropriate, and I'm amazed it's gone so long without being badly graffitied. A well-designed bus station is not something to be embarrassed about. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
Neil Williams wrote:
A well-designed bus station is not something to be embarrassed about. I quite like the one in Sunderland. Sunderland centre itself is looking very nice these days. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
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North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:27:07 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote: Doesn't said "stupid concrete wall" now contain some variety of cafe in one of the retail units, and the new GMPTE Travel Shop in the other? There's a cafe in the "pavillion". The travelshop is in the other act of philistinism in Piccadilly Gardens - that godawful tower block. I guess the owners and the council "encouraged" them to move there as it is still largely empty despite having been completed ages ago. The wall is truely a piece of crap of the highest order. But then again it was brought to us by the council who let the Free Trade Hall be gutted internally and turned into a faceless hotel :( |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
I've heard a lot of talk about hybrid vehicles which switch to electric
power in places like high streets where fumes are a big problem Indeed, I spent a sunny summers day in Manchester last year, lovely place, with no stinking buses arround the area. It was all pedestrianised apart from the metro. Down south "pedestrianised" seems to mean chocked with buses beltching diesel fumes making it impossible to breathe. I don't notice fumes from cars, even 4x4s, but buses are worse than smokers. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
Cheeky wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:27:07 +0100, Barry Salter wrote: Doesn't said "stupid concrete wall" now contain some variety of cafe in one of the retail units, and the new GMPTE Travel Shop in the other? There's a cafe in the "pavillion". The travelshop is in the other act of philistinism in Piccadilly Gardens - that godawful tower block. I guess the owners and the council "encouraged" them to move there as it is still largely empty despite having been completed ages ago. The wall is truely a piece of crap of the highest order. Piccadilly Gardens was my one disappointment when I spent a few days last month in Manchester, a city I knew well until about 5 years ago. It now rivals Jubilee Gardens in London for the worst city centre garden in the country. (There used to be a website of an American couple who picked out Jubilee Gardens as a romantic-sounding spot in London to have their wedding blessed, and were deeply disappointed that it didn't even have a single tree.) But then again it was brought to us by the council who let the Free Trade Hall be gutted internally and turned into a faceless hotel :( I thought Manchester's council/planners/whoever had done rather well in the rest of the city centre. As for the Free Trade Hall, it always had a better frontage outside than acoustics inside IMHO. At least they've kept the frontage, so "faceless" is not literally true. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:31:11 +0100, Cheeky wrote:
I beg to differ - it's clearly not capable of dealing with the millions of 42/43 variants that use it which can result in sever congestion at times (both in the bus station and on Moseley Street). I perhaps deliberately ignored the (1)4x silliness, because you'd need an entire bus station on its own to cater for those. The solution to that is route tendering and simplification (e.g. send some through services down the 50 route instead, and interchange at Parrs Wood) to get the number of permutations down. I don't see why GMPTE should fund a huge bus station to cater for the Oxford Road silliness, nor why a large swathe of Manchester City Centre should be decimated to cater for it. Some of the pollution problem in Manchester would also be helped if the emissions regulations were tightened on the (1)4x! There are also too many conflicting movements between buses and passengers/pedestrians. I'd also question the logic of open bus stations in a place known as "the rainy city"!! True. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
Dave Arquati wrote:
Neil Williams wrote: On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:06:53 +0100, Cheeky wrote: Brings back fond memories of the Arndale Centre bus station in Manchester until it was "closed down" by the IRA... Or Blackpool shudder. On the subject of the Arndale I have no idea why that was actually closed by the bomb - I don't believe it was terminally structurally damaged - I think GMPTE just realised what a hellhole it was and started using the road outside instead, which was hardly a lot better... Some of GMPTE's more recent "big greenhouse" bus stations (e.g. Oldham) seem to me to be the way to go if a bus station is what you actually need rather than just a few strategically-placed good-quality shelters. Preston also isn't bad, just very dated (and is also built under a car park!) The refurbished Chorlton Street in Manchester (OK, it's a coach station) is also rather nice. I think the key is that, regardless of where the passenger accommodation is located, the buses, or at the very least their exhaust pipes, need to be outside, and it's really a lot better if some kind of automatic door is provided between the passenger accommodation and the buses. Hammersmith is an excellent example. -- Dave Arquati There are plenty of other new TfL bus stations that (IMHO) are good news: North Greenwich, Canada Water, Vauxhall, Stratford, and Walthamstow Central bus station. And it seems that there's plenty of examples of 'worst practice', many of them buried under buildings, such as this new North Finchley endeavour. The bus station under Eldon Square shopping centre in Newcastle upon Tyne springs to mind, which will be replaced by a new bus station, currently being constructed on an adjacent street rather than under any buildings. I wonder why TfL Buses, given their recent good record, decided that this new bus station seemed like a good idea. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
"Mizter T" typed
I wonder why TfL Buses, given their recent good record, decided that this new bus station seemed like a good idea. Mebbe it's because land in NW London is *very* expensive and the old 'Tally Ho' interchange didn't squeeze out the *huge* amount that a block of flats + shops + Arts Centre could raise? The bus station strikes me as an embarassing afterthought... Might be interesting if the pub gets a 24-hour license... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
In message , Dave Arquati
writes Hammersmith is an excellent example. Except, of course, it was too small from the outset - hence the reason why it is now having to be extended at enormous cost. -- Paul Terry |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Dave Arquati writes Hammersmith is an excellent example. Except, of course, it was too small from the outset - hence the reason why it is now having to be extended at enormous cost. When are they due to start work? Do you have an online reference? Are they going to extend over the tube station (which always seemed to me what they should have done in the first place)? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message
... The bus station strikes me as an embarassing afterthought... More like something that was forced by the planning department. Might be interesting if the pub gets a 24-hour license... Which one? The Shotz Cherry Tree? -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:04:10 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: Piccadilly Gardens was my one disappointment when I spent a few days last month in Manchester, a city I knew well until about 5 years ago. It now rivals Jubilee Gardens in London for the worst city centre garden in the country. (There used to be a website of an American couple who picked out Jubilee Gardens as a romantic-sounding spot in London to have their wedding blessed, and were deeply disappointed that it didn't even have a single tree.) It is total rubbish. There's the Berlin Wall, the fountains never work, the lawns flood when it rains and have been worn bare by people walking on them. I'm starting to miss the winos and smackheads in the old sunken garden! But then again it was brought to us by the council who let the Free Trade Hall be gutted internally and turned into a faceless hotel :( I thought Manchester's council/planners/whoever had done rather well in the rest of the city centre. As for the Free Trade Hall, it always had a better frontage outside than acoustics inside IMHO. At least they've kept the frontage, so "faceless" is not literally true. I'll let you have that on the FTH :) Overall they've done OK but there are one or two abomonations around... |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
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North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On 14 Aug 2005 16:06:01 -0700, "Paul Weaver"
wrote: I've heard a lot of talk about hybrid vehicles which switch to electric power in places like high streets where fumes are a big problem Indeed, I spent a sunny summers day in Manchester last year, lovely place, with no stinking buses arround the area. It was all pedestrianised apart from the metro. Down south "pedestrianised" seems to mean chocked with buses beltching diesel fumes making it impossible to breathe. I don't notice fumes from cars, even 4x4s, but buses are worse than smokers. I take it you went nowhere near either Piccadilly Gardens or Oxford Road, then? Interesting how different people view places. As a resident I think one of the worst things about Manc is the almost total absence of meaningful pedestrianisation. Mind you, one of the only places worse (IMHO) is London. (Woo! dragged it back on topic!) |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:32:46 +0100, Cheeky wrote:
No doubt there'll be some worthy words about it in LTP2. Lets see if the PTE do anything although as it isn't a tram they probably don't give a crap... M(cynical)X is that they generally ignore it because it requires no subsidy despite running very nearly[1] 24 hours a day. [1] Just try to get a 42 early on a Sunday morning... Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:35:17 +0100, Cheeky wrote:
Interesting how different people view places. As a resident I think one of the worst things about Manc is the almost total absence of meaningful pedestrianisation. Much of the Gardens seems to be... Mind you, one of the only places worse (IMHO) is London. Agreed. Oxford Street would be far better *without* the stream of slow-moving buses and narrow pavements. There has to be a better way of serving it. As to the smell of cars vs. buses, I see what the poster means. Brand new buses generally have low emissions. Old ones don't - and the car "fleet" is getting newer a lot quicker than the bus fleet. The use of old crap that's long overdue a single to the scrapyard is one of the major problems with the Oxford Road farce. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
"John Rowland" typed
"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message ... The bus station strikes me as an embarassing afterthought... More like something that was forced by the planning department. No doubt. Might be interesting if the pub gets a 24-hour license... Which one? The Shotz Cherry Tree? I was thinking of the Tally Ho... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
I take it you went nowhere near either Piccadilly Gardens or Oxford
Road, then? Picc. Gardens is pretty pedestrianised (the bit leading down to the arndale anyway). I don't count oxford road as the middle of manchester as it's south of the A57M. The only reason you'd go down there is to rip some students off or visit the BBC :) I was thinking of the area around exchange square really. Interesting how different people view places. As a resident I think one of the worst things about Manc is the almost total absence of meaningful pedestrianisation. Mind you, one of the only places worse (IMHO) is London. Exeter's "pedestrianisation" still means mad bus drivers mowing you over. I'd rather have the 4x4's/ |
Hammersmith Bus Station Extension (was North Finchley Bus Station opens today)
In message , Richard J.
writes extending Hammersmith Bus Station When are they due to start work? Work has apparently already started on the temporary (single-story) extension (although I can't say I noticed last time I went past) with a view to opening by the end of the year: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/ini-hammersmith.asp Do you have an online reference? http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=319 There's a site plan on page 11 of (excuse the long URL!): http://www.lbhf.gov.uk/Have_your_say...AC20040216.pdf Are they going to extend over the tube station (which always seemed to me what they should have done in the first place)? The extension involves the entire NE quadrant of the Broadway Centre (where the Emerald Hall is/was sited). The area is almost the size as the existing bus station, but it doesn't cross the railway - I think the temporary extension will be connected with the rest only by a pedestrian bridge - in most respects is looks as though it will operate fairly independently of the existing facility, mainly as a base for services that currently terminate at The Grove (266, 267, H91). I have no idea what they will do in the longer term, except that I'm sure the plan will involve offices above the new site in order to try to recoup some of the cost (£21M is a lot for half a bus station - and that's just the cost of the site, I believe :) In the longer term the two sites will need to be better integrated, and that can only really be done by building over the railway, I would guess - effectively combining the two sites will need some very clever design and engineering (unless it was something that was always intended - although that I very much doubt). -- Paul Terry |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
In message , Richard J.
writes When are they due to start work? Do you have an online reference? Are they going to extend over the tube station (which always seemed to me what they should have done in the first place)? I seem to remember reading that the reason the LU station is as it is, is so that it doesn't fall foul of S12 requirements which it would if covered over completely. Therefore, I wouldn't expect it to be covered up any time soon. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On 15 Aug 2005 21:58:30 -0700, "Paul Weaver"
wrote: I take it you went nowhere near either Piccadilly Gardens or Oxford Road, then? Was hinting more at the pollution than pedestrianisation there :) Picc. Gardens is pretty pedestrianised (the bit leading down to the arndale anyway). I don't count oxford road as the middle of manchester as it's south of the A57M. The only reason you'd go down there is to rip some students off or visit the BBC :) I was thinking of the area around exchange square really. I can't gripe about the squares - Exchange/Albert/St Annes/Great Northern etc but the problem is that the centre is, that with the exception of Market Street you're always having to cross pretty busy roads when out and about in Manc. Cross Street near M&S being particularly lethal... |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
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North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 22:34:03 +0100, Cheeky wrote:
Never had the pleasure of an early sunday morning 42. Quite difficult to find. Nothing at all between about 4am and 8am, then something like hourly (or half-hourly at best) until 10. Or that's what it was like 5 or so years ago, anyway... Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:19:13 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote: Paul Terry wrote: In message , Dave Arquati writes Hammersmith is an excellent example. Except, of course, it was too small from the outset - hence the reason why it is now having to be extended at enormous cost. When are they due to start work? Do you have an online reference? Are they going to extend over the tube station (which always seemed to me what they should have done in the first place)? What I've managed to find is this: http://www.apps.lbhf.gov.uk/planning...2003/01801/FUL Which shows that the bus station extension is on the opposite (north east) side of the station to the existing bus station. -- Thomas Covenant Please observe Reply-to address. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
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North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 22:18:02 +0100, Cheeky wrote:
I was gobsmacked looking at the timetable at our local bus stop. If I read it correctly it seems that Stagecoach has decided we need no buses at all on bank holidays! GMPTE's fault. Most other locations (including Milton Keynes) run a subsidised Sunday service on a Bank Holiday, because demand patterns on such days (and shopping hours etc) are typically similar to a Sunday. For some reason, GMPTE seem to refuse to cough up so you end up with a lesser-than-Sunday service. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
North Finchley Bus Station opens today
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North Finchley Bus Station opens today
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 23:54:06 +0100, Cheeky wrote:
But it's OK because the trams are still running :-( GMPTE's little baby, quite possibly because of the lack of operating subsidy. Is it just me or have GMPTE totally lost the plot? Was looking at LTT the other day and it seems that, in their infinite wisdom, they've decided to can the direct metrolink line from Chorlton, via Withington Hospital to the Airport and have retained the tortuous route via Wythenshawe (all on-street therefore slow). So to get to the airport you'll have to travel three sides of a square through dodgeville.... This strikes me as sensible, because the Airport is already very well served by heavy rail, and anyone with any sense will use that, and not a tram, from the city centre. The only concern with Wythenshawe is that, because of the nature of some of its inhabitants, travelling by tram there may become quite dangerous. I can see conductors in pairs, or at the very least security guards, being necessary at times. As regards bus operations, GMPTE have never *had* the plot. Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
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