I frequently drive/cycle/bus along the road between the Thames and
London Bridge station, and in the last week or so this gigantic CCTV
camera gantry has gone up on the road, near the mayor/GLA "headlight"
building.

What the hell is it? Security camera array? Speed? Congestion charge or
bus land enforcement? Big Brother?

It's an horrendous eyesore. Does anyone know what it is, and who
authorised putting it up?


U n d e r a c h i e v e r (and proud)
--

U n d e r a c h i e v e r wrote:
It's an horrendous eyesore. Does anyone know what it is, and who
authorised putting it up?

U n d e r a c h i e v e r wrote:
It's an horrendous eyesore. Does anyone know what it is, and who
authorised putting it up?

It's part of a pilot scheme for new tag and beacon technology for the
Congestion Charge.

See also: http://www.london-se1.co.uk/forum/read.php?1,39084

James
http://www.london-se1.co.uk

"James Hatts" wrote in message
oups.com...
U n d e r a c h i e v e r wrote:
It's an horrendous eyesore. Does anyone know what it is, and who
authorised putting it up?

U n d e r a c h i e v e r wrote:
It's an horrendous eyesore. Does anyone know what it is, and who
authorised putting it up?

It's part of a pilot scheme for new tag and beacon technology for the
Congestion Charge.

You really believe that don't you naive boy?



See also: http://www.london-se1.co.uk/forum/read.php?1,39084

James
http://www.london-se1.co.uk

It's part of a pilot scheme for new tag and beacon technology for the
Congestion Charge.

Which in turn is a pilot for the goverments road charging scheme from
what I've heard. Tho , given theres already a charge based on the
distance
you drive (otherwise known as fuel costs) it seems a bit redundant.
Still,
politicians as we know are genuises so who are we to question their
omnipotence.

B2003

Boltar wrote:
It's part of a pilot scheme for new tag and beacon technology for the
Congestion Charge.

Which in turn is a pilot for the goverments road charging scheme from
what I've heard. Tho , given theres already a charge based on the
distance
you drive (otherwise known as fuel costs) it seems a bit redundant.
Still,
politicians as we know are genuises so who are we to question their
omnipotence.

B2003

Having a mileage based road-charging system potentially offers a much
fairer deal for rural communities. Road-tax and fuel-tax could be
greatly reduced and the mileage charge made variable according to the
level of congestion and/or time of day. That way everybody pays
something but the cost escalates for those contributing to congestion.

The mileage charge should be zero on roads which are never or rarely
congested. This would save the vast expense (and eyesore) of
installing the detection equipment on them. It would also allow the
system to be rolled out gradually, starting with the most congested
areas.

umpston wrote:


Having a mileage based road-charging system potentially offers a much
fairer deal for rural communities. Road-tax and fuel-tax could be
greatly reduced and the mileage charge made variable according to the
level of congestion and/or time of day. That way everybody pays
something but the cost escalates for those contributing to congestion.

and I would have entirely backed such a scheme, until I saw that camera
/ radar gantry. if we need to litter the cities and main roads with
these to make it work, we need to think of something else.

there's a little toll booth in south London on a (private?) road through
the Dulwich College area. 50p to pass. how about loads of them all over
the capital? much prettier, and providing direct and useful
employment...

U n d e r a c h i e v e r (and proud)
--

U n d e r a c h i e v e r ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

Having a mileage based road-charging system potentially offers a much
fairer deal for rural communities. Road-tax and fuel-tax could be
greatly reduced and the mileage charge made variable according to the
level of congestion and/or time of day. That way everybody pays
something but the cost escalates for those contributing to congestion.

and I would have entirely backed such a scheme, until I saw that camera
/ radar gantry. if we need to litter the cities and main roads with
these to make it work, we need to think of something else.

Don't forget - it'd need to be on *EVERY* road - main road AND back road -
through the country. Urban, suburban AND rural.

You'd also need to have some way of informing drivers of the charges on
alternate routes, if they're going to be reactive to local congestion - and
that is, after all, the point?

So every single road sign is going to have display a price, too.

On 26 Aug 2005 16:22:33 GMT, Adrian wrote:

U n d e r a c h i e v e r ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

Having a mileage based road-charging system potentially offers a much
fairer deal for rural communities. Road-tax and fuel-tax could be
greatly reduced and the mileage charge made variable according to the
level of congestion and/or time of day. That way everybody pays
something but the cost escalates for those contributing to congestion.

and I would have entirely backed such a scheme, until I saw that camera
/ radar gantry. if we need to litter the cities and main roads with
these to make it work, we need to think of something else.

Don't forget - it'd need to be on *EVERY* road - main road AND back road -
through the country. Urban, suburban AND rural.

People have been talking about GPS as a basis for road pricing,
haven't they?

--
James Farrar

September's coming soon

James Farrar ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

and I would have entirely backed such a scheme, until I saw that
camera / radar gantry. if we need to litter the cities and main
roads with these to make it work, we need to think of something
else.

Don't forget - it'd need to be on *EVERY* road - main road AND back
road - through the country. Urban, suburban AND rural.

People have been talking about GPS as a basis for road pricing,
haven't they?

Yes. That won't work, either. See the multiple threads in uk.rec.driving
and the uk.rec.cars.* hierarchy as to the many reasons why.

Adrian wrote:
James Farrar ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

and I would have entirely backed such a scheme, until I saw that
camera / radar gantry. if we need to litter the cities and main
roads with these to make it work, we need to think of something
else.

Don't forget - it'd need to be on *EVERY* road - main road AND back
road - through the country. Urban, suburban AND rural.

People have been talking about GPS as a basis for road pricing,
haven't they?

Yes. That won't work, either. See the multiple threads in uk.rec.driving
and the uk.rec.cars.* hierarchy as to the many reasons why.

I had a quick search on uk.rec.driving and couldn't see any current
threads on this subject - perhaps someone could point me in the right
direction, or briefly explain any unsurmountable reasons why it 'won't
work'?

As I said in my earlier post I see no reason why road-pricing detection
would need to be on *EVERY* road; just in congested areas and the
busiest routes. Surely there is no need for it on rural roads which
are never, or rarely, congested. A minimum cost per mile could still
be charged by retaining a (reduced) fuel tax.

The camera/radar gantry in London is ugly but this is an
experimental/prototype system. Don't forget this gantry is also used
for the current camera-based enforcement for the current
congestion-charge system - which would eventually become redundant.
Since a final system is 10 or more years away the technology may well
move on; hopefully becoming both more accurate at detection and less
obtrusive in appearance.

There would be no need to display the price on every single road sign -
this is not done for the current congestion charge. Although the
pricing structure might be more complex people would soon get to know
how it works in their local area and for their regular journeys. For
longer journeys route-planning web-sites would be able to work out the
charge and offer alternative routes. In-car computers ought to be able
to do the same - manufacturers will have several years to develop these
systems. By then, just about everybody will have broadband access and
the in-car computers could be fitted to older cars at the same time as
the trip-identifiers.