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Oyster on NR
I wonder how many people who refuse Oyster cards are working in the
black economy and don't want their regular 5-day a week journies from A-to-B recorded? Also how do National Rail station and train staff indentify the validity of an Oyster card and how do passengers with such tickets get out of gated NR stations without readers? |
Oyster on NR
wrote in message ups.com... I wonder how many people who refuse Oyster cards are working in the black economy and don't want their regular 5-day a week journies from A-to-B recorded? Also how do National Rail station and train staff indentify the validity of an Oyster card and how do passengers with such tickets get out of gated NR stations without readers? They give NR staff hand held readers but they don't always seem to have them so usually they stare blankly for a moment at your card and say "thankyou". All NR stations in Zones 1-6 had oyster pads fitted with the exception of Romford which had "the wrong type of gate". Although this may have been dealt with by now. In this case you had to wait for your ticket to be checked by a man with a hand held scanner unless it was very busy or there were several people with oyster cards who wanted to travel in which case you were all waved through on sight of the card. A very elegant solution. |
Oyster on NR
There are a number of NR stations with no gates at all, so no oyster readers there. |
Oyster on NR
There are a number of NR stations with no gates at all, so no oyster readers there. |
Oyster on NR
There are a number of NR stations with no gates at all, so no oyster readers there. |
Oyster on NR
Sorry for the duplicate posts. Crap newsreader.
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Oyster on NR
"Londoncityslicker" wrote in message oups.com... There are a number of NR stations with no gates at all, so no oyster readers there. To be absolutely clear that should have read: "All NR stations in Zones 1-6 that already had gates had oyster pads fitted" |
Oyster on NR
TKD wrote:
"Londoncityslicker" wrote in message oups.com... There are a number of NR stations with no gates at all, so no oyster readers there. To be absolutely clear that should have read: "All NR stations in Zones 1-6 that already had gates had oyster pads fitted" I would say that the majority of NR stations outside zone 2 don't have readers! Also, if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount. -- Paul |
Oyster on NR
Paul wrote:
TKD wrote: "Londoncityslicker" wrote in message oups.com... There are a number of NR stations with no gates at all, so no oyster readers there. To be absolutely clear that should have read: "All NR stations in Zones 1-6 that already had gates had oyster pads fitted" I would say that the majority of NR stations outside zone 2 don't have readers! Also, if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount. -- Paul There's a little confusion here. All NR stations with automatic gates have had Oyster readers fitted to them so people with season Travelcards on Oyster can get through them. The only *non-gated* stations that have had Oyster readers installed are those which accept Pre Pay, of which there are few. A list of these routes is he http://tinyurl.com/78fu8 NR ticket inspectors in London all carry a calculator sized Oyster reader so they can see what ticket is held on the Oyster card. It is correct to say that the 'Passengers Charter' discounts (for poor performance) are only available when buying printed tickets from NR train companies. One could weigh this saving up against the potential convenience and cost-savings that can be made should one regularly travel by Tube out of the zones covered by your Travelcard, when the Oyster system automatically deducts the extra as opposed to queuing and buying a ticket extension. For many people, the above scenario may well be rare, so they might as well buy from their NR train company. |
Oyster on NR
On 24 Aug 2005 07:48:42 -0700, "Paul"
wrote: if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount. What discount? -- James Farrar September's coming soon |
Oyster on NR
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:00:03 +0100, James Farrar
wrote: if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount. What discount? On NR you can get discounts on season ticket renewals if the train company you buy the ticket from performs badly. (You don't have to actually use it on their trains to receive the discount.) |
Oyster on NR
James Farrar wrote:
On 24 Aug 2005 07:48:42 -0700, "Paul" wrote: if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount. What discount? I'm no expert, but this is my understanding of the Passengers Charter discount. It's offered on monthly or longer season ticket *renewals* if punctuality or reliability over the past 12 months has been below targets. This can be worth a 5% or 10% discount. Whilst I'm sure most passengers would prefer the railway to run on or above the targets, the discount provides some recompense when things aren't running well, plus an incentive to the train company to stop losing money and get their act in order. A few webpages I've found about the Passengers Charter on different TOC websites: http://www.thameslink.co.uk/main.php?page_id=33 http://www.thameslink.co.uk/main.php?page_id=101 http://www.setrains.co.uk/SETrains/C...engersCharter/ http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWT...rs+Charter.htm http://www.southernrailway.com/about...ormation.shtml |
Oyster on NR
wrote in message
ups.com... I wonder how many people who refuse Oyster cards are working in the black economy and don't want their regular 5-day a week journies from A-to-B recorded? I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone 1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do; i know that many people have switched back to paper tickets because Oyster charged them an extra £3.20 a day. When weeklies change to Oyster I think these people will simply buy their weeklies from NR stations. |
Oyster on NR
In article ,
Alan OBrien wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I wonder how many people who refuse Oyster cards are working in the black economy and don't want their regular 5-day a week journies from A-to-B recorded? I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone 1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do; They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection crowd get ahold of them. (Unless they - say - use the NLL to avoid zone 1 properly, but then the oyster card won't charge them) -- Mike Bristow - really a very good driver |
Oyster on NR
I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone 1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do; They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection crowd get ahold of them. (Unless they - say - use the NLL to avoid zone 1 properly, but then the oyster card won't charge them) On the day prepay launched enough people with season tickets accrued negative balances for the media to report it as a bug. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3422051.stm There was of course no bug. All of those people did not have zone 1 on their travelcards and for the first time the system was able to catch them out. |
Oyster on NR
asdf wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:00:03 +0100, James Farrar wrote: if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount. What discount? On NR you can get discounts on season ticket renewals if the train company you buy the ticket from performs badly. (You don't have to actually use it on their trains to receive the discount.) Exactly. Which is why there is no incentive for me to get an Oyster travelcard! -- Paul |
Oyster on NR
On 25 Aug 2005 03:24:34 -0700, "Paul"
wrote: if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount. What discount? On NR you can get discounts on season ticket renewals if the train company you buy the ticket from performs badly. (You don't have to actually use it on their trains to receive the discount.) Exactly. Which is why there is no incentive for me to get an Oyster travelcard! South West Trains (don't know about other TOCs) now give the discount on Oyster travelcards, provided you buy it from them. Incidentally, which are the best (i.e. worst performing!) train companies to buy Travelcard seasons from? |
Oyster on NR
Mike Bristow wrote:
In article , Alan OBrien wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I wonder how many people who refuse Oyster cards are working in the black economy and don't want their regular 5-day a week journies from A-to-B recorded? I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone 1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do; They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection crowd get ahold of them. They shouldn't do it, as it is fare evasion, but just because you shouldn't do it doesn't mean you can't do it! I know someone who has done this, I don't approve of it but I know it can be done. I've overheard someone else being caught doing it by RP staff when changing Tube lines at Zone 1 interchange stations ("I though my ticket included Zone 1" - "No sir it doesn't" etc etc). As RP staff rarely/never board trains, then there are perhaps some whose regular journey on the same Tube train (e.g. from Shepherds Bush to Mile End on the Cental Line) are not likely to be caught either. The concentric zones in London are broadly a very good idea, but it has an inherent assumption that many people will travel on radial routes to the main attraction - Zone 1. Because of this and other notions about 'Big Brother watching over us' some people may wish to avoid Oyster. I supsect that some NR stations that are near Tube stations may see a slight rise in the number of 7DTC's sold, but no subsequent increase in passenger traffic. |
Oyster on NR
TKD wrote:
I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone 1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do; They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection crowd get ahold of them. (Unless they - say - use the NLL to avoid zone 1 properly, but then the oyster card won't charge them) On the day prepay launched enough people with season tickets accrued negative balances for the media to report it as a bug. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3422051.stm There was of course no bug. All of those people did not have zone 1 on their travelcards and for the first time the system was able to catch them out. How interesting. I'd heard those reports and kind of dismissed them as rubbish journalism stirred up by the Lib Dem candidate for Mayor, Simon Hughes, who never missed a chance for a dig at the Mayor Ken and didn't let such trivial things as facts get in the way! That's fascinating to hear the real reason behind the 'Oyster bugs' was the system working properly (and catching people out) rather than a system problem. It's not called a smartcard for no reason at all! Is your information from an authoritative source? |
Oyster on NR
asdf wrote:
On 25 Aug 2005 03:24:34 -0700, "Paul" wrote: if you are using an Oyster travelcard it's better to get a paper travelcard, otherwise you don't get the discount. What discount? On NR you can get discounts on season ticket renewals if the train company you buy the ticket from performs badly. (You don't have to actually use it on their trains to receive the discount.) Exactly. Which is why there is no incentive for me to get an Oyster travelcard! South West Trains (don't know about other TOCs) now give the discount on Oyster travelcards, provided you buy it from them. I think it's only SWT and Silverlink that issue Oyster cards (and sell tickets to be loaded to Oyster cards), though only at some stations. I understand Silverlink issues Oyster at it's stations served by the Bakerloo line, which makes a lot of sense. I've heard SWT issues Oyster at Surbiton but I'd like to know where else this happens. (AIUI all the Oyster issuing SWT stations are in the zones as you can't get any out-of-London Travelcard seasons on Oyster, only on printed tickets.) I reckon SWT was possibly losong some of it's sales to TfL outlets as it's passengers wanted to take advantage of the benefits of Oyster/ wanted to have the flashy new Oyster card. Can anyone name any other NR TOCs that issue Oyster? Incidentally, which are the best (i.e. worst performing!) train companies to buy Travelcard seasons from? Also a question I'd like answered! One could save oneself some money here, and I'm sure a few people do already. |
Oyster on NR
In article . com,
Mizter T wrote: Can anyone name any other NR TOCs that issue Oyster? At a guess, c2c at Barking & WAGN (or whoever it is) at Walthamstow Central. I'll take a sidestep and find out. -- Mike Bristow - really a very good driver |
Oyster on NR
Mike Bristow wrote: In article . com, Mizter T wrote: Can anyone name any other NR TOCs that issue Oyster? At a guess, c2c at Barking & WAGN (or whoever it is) at Walthamstow Central. I'll take a sidestep and find out. Half the windows are usually shut and half of them say "no oyster here", the LUL office is always closed, half the NR ticket machines are out of order quite often, and there is no LUL fast ticket machine. It's really not much fun getting tickets at Walthamstow. If only they would just put one of those little Fast Ticket machines downstairs... |
Oyster on NR
Dave Newt wrote:
Mike Bristow wrote: In article . com, Mizter T wrote: Can anyone name any other NR TOCs that issue Oyster? At a guess, c2c at Barking & WAGN (or whoever it is) at Walthamstow Central. I'll take a sidestep and find out. Half the windows are usually shut and half of them say "no oyster here", the LUL office is always closed, half the NR ticket machines are out of order quite often, and there is no LUL fast ticket machine. It's really not much fun getting tickets at Walthamstow. If only they would just put one of those little Fast Ticket machines downstairs... That sounds like a poor situation. I can only suggest you use Oyster Pre Pay if you wish to use the Tube, and add credit to your card at a local newsagent. Again, if you need a season Travelcard then a newsagent will do the job, ditto for Day Travelcards. Plus it's worth noting you can also use Oyster Pre Pay on NR between Liverpool Street and Walthamstow Central/ Tottenham Hale/ Seven Sisters, but not at intermediate stations. Price wise Pre Pay is cheaper for a single journey - £2.50 (or £2.00 after 7pm and at weekends) as opposed to £2.80 for a printed single ticket. However printed CDR's and standard returns (for travel before 9.30am) cost £3.30 and £4.70 respectively (whilst an Oyster return would cost £5.00 or £4.00), thus a printed ticket will always work out cheaper for a straightforward return journey. However if you're using the Tube for onward journeys from Liverpool Street then Oyster Pre Pay capping will kick in, so it's could be quite useful after all. Anyway there's a few ideas for avoiding the ticket offices/ machines at Walthamstow, but I'm not making excuses for anyone - a busy station such as Walthamstow really should be well equipped and competent enough to sell tickets! A question - do *any* of the NR ticket windows at Walthamstow deal with Oyster? |
Oyster on NR
"TKD" wrote in message ... I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone 1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do; They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection crowd get ahold of them. (Unless they - say - use the NLL to avoid zone 1 properly, but then the oyster card won't charge them) On the day prepay launched enough people with season tickets accrued negative balances for the media to report it as a bug. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3422051.stm There was of course no bug. All of those people did not have zone 1 on their travelcards and for the first time the system was able to catch them out. That is why many people went back to paper tickets. |
Oyster on NR
On the day prepay launched enough people with season tickets accrued
negative balances for the media to report it as a bug. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3422051.stm There was of course no bug. All of those people did not have zone 1 on their travelcards and for the first time the system was able to catch them out. How interesting. I'd heard those reports and kind of dismissed them as rubbish journalism stirred up by the Lib Dem candidate for Mayor, Simon Hughes, who never missed a chance for a dig at the Mayor Ken and didn't let such trivial things as facts get in the way! That's fascinating to hear the real reason behind the 'Oyster bugs' was the system working properly (and catching people out) rather than a system problem. It's not called a smartcard for no reason at all! Is your information from an authoritative source? I think it was on the TfL/GLAwebsite but I can't be sure and can't find from a quick Google. Prepay was launched Jan '04 so it was around that time. It seems Simon Hughes can only get his name about by claiming that anything he doesn't understand is "scandal". |
Oyster on NR
Mizter T wrote:
Dave Newt wrote: Half the windows are usually shut and half of them say "no oyster here", the LUL office is always closed, half the NR ticket machines are out of order quite often, and there is no LUL fast ticket machine. It's really not much fun getting tickets at Walthamstow. If only they would just put one of those little Fast Ticket machines downstairs... That sounds like a poor situation. I can only suggest you use Oyster Pre Pay if you wish to use the Tube, and add credit to your card at a local newsagent. Again, if you need a season Travelcard then a newsagent will do the job, ditto for Day Travelcards. I have Oyster season anyway, and I just refill it at the work end of my journey rather than the home end. Anyway there's a few ideas for avoiding the ticket offices/ machines at Walthamstow, but I'm not making excuses for anyone - a busy station such as Walthamstow really should be well equipped and competent enough to sell tickets! A question - do *any* of the NR ticket windows at Walthamstow deal with Oyster? I was deliberately vague above - I know that the two windows on the Liverpool Street platform there DON'T. The windows on the Chingford side, I don't remember (I'm thinking they must do for the original claim to be true!), but I'll have a look and see (or someone here will know, I'm sure). |
Oyster on NR
TKD wrote:
"Londoncityslicker" wrote in message oups.com... There are a number of NR stations with no gates at all, so no oyster readers there. To be absolutely clear that should have read: "All NR stations in Zones 1-6 that already had gates had oyster pads fitted" I would say that the majority of NR stations outside zone 2 don't have readers! I am presuming this means those stations that are not double LUL/NR stations. The stations at the end of the Bakerloo Line that I've visited recently have readers mounted on the walls (not always in a convenient or noticeable place) because as there are no gates there are no Oyster pads on the nonexistent gates. I see no reason why all the NR stations can't just have an Oyster pad on the wall or a supporting column. NR is just afraid of innovation. -- Chris Hansen | chrishansenhome at btinternet dot com |http://www.hansenhome.demon.co.uk or |http://www.livejournal.com/users/chrishansenhome/ |
Oyster on NR
asdf wrote:
On 25 Aug 2005 03:24:34 -0700, "Paul" wrote: On NR you can get discounts on season ticket renewals if the train company you buy the ticket from performs badly. (You don't have to actually use it on their trains to receive the discount.) Exactly. Which is why there is no incentive for me to get an Oyster travelcard! South West Trains (don't know about other TOCs) now give the discount on Oyster travelcards, provided you buy it from them. Didn't know that. I doubt my little local station handles Oyster though.. and I doubt you can topup on SWTs website, but I will check. Incidentally, which are the best (i.e. worst performing!) train companies to buy Travelcard seasons from? SWT gives me a 5% discount. SE trains (previously Connex) used to give 7% when I lived that way. -- Paul |
Oyster on NR
[replied via google so apologies if it looks weird]
A question - do *any* of the NR ticket windows at Walthamstow deal with Oyster? I was deliberately vague above - I know that the two windows on the Liverpool Street platform there DON'T. The windows on the Chingford side, I don't remember (I'm thinking they must do for the original claim to be true!), but I'll have a look and see (or someone here will know, I'm sure). OK - I went there this morning. ALL of the NR ticket windows on BOTH sides of the station say "Oyster not available at this window. Please go to LUL office downstairs." Of course, none of the NR machines can do Oyster either and there are no LUL machines. There is ONE single LUL ticket window (badly-positioned next to the luggage gate and in my 3 years of living there, I would say it's closed A LOT (I can't quantify that - sorry!) of the time. The newsagent next to the station (corner of Selbourne Road and Hoe Street) is a Ticket Stop though. Maybe when they finish the subway to the bus station (was meant to be open a few months ago, but has now been put back another 18 months to 2 years - ha!), they will provide some better facilities. I hope LUL do anyway - WAGN/"one" sure as hell won't. |
Oyster on NR
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Barry Salter writes:
panto Oh yes it can! /panto Pantograph? :-) -- Mark Brader, Toronto "It's the almost correct solutions that are the most dangerous..." -- Dave Eisen |
Oyster on NR
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Oyster on NR
Paul Corfield wrote:
On 26 Aug 2005 06:01:28 -0700, wrote: ALL of the NR ticket windows on BOTH sides of the station say "Oyster not available at this window. Please go to LUL office downstairs." This happened when One upgraded from APTIS (which had a plug in unit) to new machines which are not compatible. A nonsense but then the attitude of the TOCs and Rail Settlement Plan to Prestige always was nonsensical when I was trying to negotiate with them and convince them that the scheme was going to happen. Now it has I suspect the attitude has not changed very much if a recent article in Modern Railways is anything to go by. That explains why I thought I was going mad, and had a feeling that the windows there DID offer Oyster for a short period of time. There is ONE single LUL ticket window (badly-positioned next to the luggage gate and in my 3 years of living there, I would say it's closed A LOT (I can't quantify that - sorry!) of the time. You can blame me for the luggage gate issue as we had to compromise on the design when we did the project to put the gates in. Presumably, it's not your fault it's always closed though? :-) Maybe when they finish the subway to the bus station (was meant to be open a few months ago, but has now been put back another 18 months to 2 years - ha!), they will provide some better facilities. Out of curiosity where did you hear that timescale from? http://www.walthamforestguardian.co....php?utag=10366 Unless there is more space than I can foresee in the subway link then I doubt there will be any real expansion of the LU ticketing facility. I won't mind being proved wrong though. Those small Oyster Quick Tickets machines are pretty small though - would be very handy. [1] to replace the "temporary" 1968 structures that were removed earlier this year. ....which now looks much better - let's hope it's not something equally ugly that goes up! Thanks for the info. |
Oyster on NR
On 25 Aug 2005 10:57:26 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:
I think it's only SWT and Silverlink that issue Oyster cards (and sell tickets to be loaded to Oyster cards), though only at some stations. There are more One and WAGN for example. See the list of stations at: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...05.pdf#page=14 -- Cheers, Jason. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail? |
Oyster on NR
On 24 Aug 2005 16:18:29 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:
I'm no expert, but this is my understanding of the Passengers Charter discount. It's offered on monthly or longer season ticket *renewals* if punctuality or reliability over the past 12 months has been below targets. This can be worth a 5% or 10% discount. Or nothing on 'one', who changed their charter some time to require season ticekt holders to claim for each and every delay! I stopped buying tickets from them shortly after that... -- Cheers, Jason. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail? |
Oyster on NR
On 25 Aug 2005 08:15:43 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:
Mike Bristow wrote: In article , Alan OBrien wrote: wrote in message ups.com... I wonder how many people who refuse Oyster cards are working in the black economy and don't want their regular 5-day a week journies from A-to-B recorded? I think the main reason is that some people live in zone 2 north - say Kentish Town - but work in zone 2 on the other side of zone 1 - say Canary Wharf. By buying a zone 2 paper weekly they hope to avoid the fare for zone 1 every day, which with Oyster they can't do; They can't do it with paper tickets, eitherm when the Revinue Protection crowd get ahold of them. They shouldn't do it, as it is fare evasion, but just because you shouldn't do it doesn't mean you can't do it! I know someone who has done this, I don't approve of it but I know it can be done. I've overheard someone else being caught doing it by RP staff when changing Tube lines at Zone 1 interchange stations ("I though my ticket included Zone 1" - "No sir it doesn't" etc etc). Some years ago, I used to travel from the northern end of the Victoria line to West London, changing to the Piccadilly at Green Park. There were numerous times when ticket checks were done in the interchange tunnels, precisely for this reason. Because of this and other notions about 'Big Brother watching over us' some people may wish to avoid Oyster. I supsect that some NR stations that are near Tube stations may see a slight rise in the number of 7DTC's sold, but no subsequent increase in passenger traffic. Additionally, people with paper travelcards can't have journey start and end times verified for LU "Customer Charter" claims - another reason for some to avoid Oyster. -- Cheers, Jason. A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail? |
Oyster on NR
Jason wrote: On 25 Aug 2005 10:57:26 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote: I think it's only SWT and Silverlink that issue Oyster cards (and sell tickets to be loaded to Oyster cards), though only at some stations. There are more One and WAGN for example. See the list of stations at: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...05.pdf#page=14 We already know that the inclusion of Walthamstow on that list is a lie - how many other stations on the list is it not actually true for? |
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