Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

Morning,

As you will be aware, Emma Clarke is currently the announcer for the
Picaddily Line (also the Central, Bakerloo and Hammersmith and City lines if
i remember correctly)

Im creating a route for BVE, and short of riding the whole tube journey,
does anyone know where I might be able to download these samples?

Thanks
Gareth

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

Apologies, to make that clear, the samples I wish to download are the on
Train announcements.

Thanks,
Gareth

"Gareth Packer" wrote in message
...
Morning,

As you will be aware, Emma Clarke is currently the announcer for the
Picaddily Line (also the Central, Bakerloo and Hammersmith and City lines
if
i remember correctly)

Im creating a route for BVE, and short of riding the whole tube journey,
does anyone know where I might be able to download these samples?

Thanks
Gareth

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

Gareth Packer wrote:
Morning,

As you will be aware, Emma Clarke is currently the announcer for the
Picaddily Line (also the Central, Bakerloo and Hammersmith and City
lines if i remember correctly)

No, the on-train announcements on the Piccadilly Line were recorded by
an Arnos Grove driver.

Im creating a route for BVE, and short of riding the whole tube
journey, does anyone know where I might be able to download these
samples?

It would be quite authentic not to have the announcements. They don't
seem to be used by the majority of drivers, probably because they cause
the destination displays in the cars to go blank. (Are LU/TubeLines
ever going to cure that?)
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

Erm, sorry, its been a long day... (Yes I know its still the morning...)

I meant the Victoria Line... your absolutely right, the picadilly line
doesnt really have any announcements.. apart from that "Please mind the gap
between the train and the platform"

On the second subject though, the Piccadilly line is getting new 2009-Stock
tube trains in (funnily enough) 2009, which will be based on the 92-Stock of
the Central Line, and the 95/96 Stock of the Northern and Jubilee Lines, so
I wouldnt have thought that much more work by way of refurbishments will be
undertaken on the 72-Stock Trains... could be wrong, since they are also due
on the Victoria Lines around the same time, the only line with outdated
trains I believe will be the Bakerloo line, which is not due new stock until
2019...

But anyway, enough of the tangent, Victoria Line Announcements, can anyone
help?

Thanks
Gareth


"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...
Gareth Packer wrote:
Morning,

As you will be aware, Emma Clarke is currently the announcer for the
Picaddily Line (also the Central, Bakerloo and Hammersmith and City
lines if i remember correctly)

No, the on-train announcements on the Piccadilly Line were recorded by
an Arnos Grove driver.

Im creating a route for BVE, and short of riding the whole tube
journey, does anyone know where I might be able to download these
samples?

It would be quite authentic not to have the announcements. They don't
seem to be used by the majority of drivers, probably because they cause
the destination displays in the cars to go blank. (Are LU/TubeLines
ever going to cure that?)
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

I meant the Victoria Line... your absolutely right, the picadilly line

So who's Emma Clark anyway?

On the second subject though, the Piccadilly line is getting new 2009-Stock

It is? First I've heard about it. Seems a bit premature given they only
recently
finished major overhauls to the 73 stock.

trains I believe will be the Bakerloo line, which is not due new stock until
2019...

Can't help thinking the bakerloo 72 stock will have fallen apart by
then.

B2003

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

In message , Gareth Packer
writes

As you will be aware, Emma Clarke is currently the announcer for the
Picaddily Line (also the Central, Bakerloo and Hammersmith and City lines if
i remember correctly)

EC doesn't do the Piccadilly - it's one of our drivers from Arnos Grove.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

In message , Richard J.
writes

It would be quite authentic not to have the announcements. They don't
seem to be used by the majority of drivers, probably because they cause
the destination displays in the cars to go blank. (Are LU/TubeLines
ever going to cure that?)

According to an article in the Metro a month or so ago, they're going to
get them working properly by the end of 2006 with every station done
automatically. I wonder if this is to do with the alterations that will
doubtless be required for Heathrow T4 services?

I'll refrain from comment as to whether this is ever likely.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

In message , Gareth Packer
writes

I meant the Victoria Line... your absolutely right, the picadilly line
doesnt really have any announcements.. apart from that "Please mind the gap
between the train and the platform"

Actually there is a full repertoire of announcements available (every
station, MTG and quite a few more) but are rarely used as they don't
interface at all well with the in car displays as has been commented
here already.

On the second subject though, the Piccadilly line is getting new 2009-Stock
tube trains in (funnily enough) 2009, which will be based on the 92-Stock of
the Central Line, and the 95/96 Stock of the Northern and Jubilee Lines, so
I wouldnt have thought that much more work by way of refurbishments will be
undertaken on the 72-Stock Trains... could be wrong, since they are also due
on the Victoria Lines around the same time, the only line with outdated
trains I believe will be the Bakerloo line, which is not due new stock until
2019...

Don't know where you get the idea we're getting some 2009 (would be 09TS
surely!) stock on the Piccadilly. Apart from the fact we don't
currently have any 72TS to replace, we've been told to expect new trains
in around 12 years.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:24:23 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

On the second subject though, the Piccadilly line is getting new 2009-Stock
tube trains in (funnily enough) 2009, which will be based on the 92-Stock of
the Central Line, and the 95/96 Stock of the Northern and Jubilee Lines, so
I wouldnt have thought that much more work by way of refurbishments will be
undertaken on the 72-Stock Trains... could be wrong, since they are also due
on the Victoria Lines around the same time, the only line with outdated
trains I believe will be the Bakerloo line, which is not due new stock until
2019...

I think you know more than we at LU or even Tube Lines do. The train
design is not finalised and new trains are not required until 2012 at
the earliest with upgrade completion due in 2015 if memory serves. It
would be foolish to purchase a design of train that will be 15 years old
for the Piccadilly Line upgrade. And performance of the current Northern
Line trains is dire so it would be doubly stupid - Tube Lines will want
something that it is very reliable so that their risk under PPP is
minimised.

I'm sure Alstom would be delighted to know they have already won a yet
to be tendered contract as would the EU as this would be a breach of
procurement law. Not sure how Bombardier would feel about the IPR of
the Central Line trains being "stolen" to inform the design of the
Piccadilly Line trains.

Oh and Piccadilly Line stock is 1973 stock and it has just had a whole
package of improvements made to it to improve reliability and all of the
seat covers are being replaced by Tube Lines. As the Picc is generally
very reliable on the Tube Lines managed sections it is pretty clear that
spending money to deal with the worst aspects of unreliability has been
worth it.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:24:23 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

On the second subject though, the Piccadilly line is getting new
2009-Stock
tube trains in (funnily enough) 2009, which will be based on the 92-Stock
of
the Central Line, and the 95/96 Stock of the Northern and Jubilee Lines,
so
I wouldnt have thought that much more work by way of refurbishments will
be
undertaken on the 72-Stock Trains... could be wrong, since they are also
due
on the Victoria Lines around the same time, the only line with outdated
trains I believe will be the Bakerloo line, which is not due new stock
until
2019...

I think you know more than we at LU or even Tube Lines do. The train
design is not finalised and new trains are not required until 2012 at
the earliest with upgrade completion due in 2015 if memory serves. It
would be foolish to purchase a design of train that will be 15 years old
for the Piccadilly Line upgrade. And performance of the current Northern
Line trains is dire so it would be doubly stupid - Tube Lines will want
something that it is very reliable so that their risk under PPP is
minimised.

I'm sure Alstom would be delighted to know they have already won a yet
to be tendered contract as would the EU as this would be a breach of
procurement law. Not sure how Bombardier would feel about the IPR of
the Central Line trains being "stolen" to inform the design of the
Piccadilly Line trains.

Oh and Piccadilly Line stock is 1973 stock and it has just had a whole
package of improvements made to it to improve reliability and all of the
seat covers are being replaced by Tube Lines. As the Picc is generally
very reliable on the Tube Lines managed sections it is pretty clear that
spending money to deal with the worst aspects of unreliability has been
worth it.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!



Heh, im not going to argue with that, Ill take your word for it rather than
other information recieved definately.

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:24:23 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

On the second subject though, the Piccadilly line is getting new
2009-Stock
tube trains in (funnily enough) 2009, which will be based on the 92-Stock
of
the Central Line, and the 95/96 Stock of the Northern and Jubilee Lines,
so
I wouldnt have thought that much more work by way of refurbishments will
be
undertaken on the 72-Stock Trains... could be wrong, since they are also
due
on the Victoria Lines around the same time, the only line with outdated
trains I believe will be the Bakerloo line, which is not due new stock
until
2019...

I think you know more than we at LU or even Tube Lines do. The train
design is not finalised and new trains are not required until 2012 at
the earliest with upgrade completion due in 2015 if memory serves. It
would be foolish to purchase a design of train that will be 15 years old
for the Piccadilly Line upgrade. And performance of the current Northern
Line trains is dire so it would be doubly stupid - Tube Lines will want
something that it is very reliable so that their risk under PPP is
minimised.

I'm sure Alstom would be delighted to know they have already won a yet
to be tendered contract as would the EU as this would be a breach of
procurement law. Not sure how Bombardier would feel about the IPR of
the Central Line trains being "stolen" to inform the design of the
Piccadilly Line trains.

Oh and Piccadilly Line stock is 1973 stock and it has just had a whole
package of improvements made to it to improve reliability and all of the
seat covers are being replaced by Tube Lines. As the Picc is generally
very reliable on the Tube Lines managed sections it is pretty clear that
spending money to deal with the worst aspects of unreliability has been
worth it.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!



I have replied with a couple of pictures before i read this, so it blurbs on
about the trains, whether they will or wont exist. I am interested to know
how much is true, however, so here is what I read. Would be interested in
any comments?

***


LONDON UNDERGROUND MAJOR REGENERATION SCHEME, UNITED KINGDOM
London has one of the largest metro systems in the world, carrying almost
one billion passengers a year. Although much of the 'Tube' was built by
private enterprise in the late 19th and early 20th Century, for the last
half-century it has been in public ownership, and governments of all
complexions have been guilty of starving London Underground (LUL) of
funding.

When the Labour Government came to power in 1997, it chose a Public Private
Partnership (PPP), under which private companies would help to finance
regeneration in return for lengthy maintenance/management contracts and
guaranteed returns. The once autonomous London Underground is now split into
four organisations - two infrastructure companies (Infracos) and Transport
for London. The Infracos are responsible for the maintenance and management
of infrastructure (track, tunnels, stations and structures) and trains.

TUBE INFRASTRUCTURE
Around £16 billion investment has been promised by the Government and the
two Infraco consortia over the next 30 years: £4 billion from the private
sector, £5 billion from farebox and retail revenues and £7 billion from the
taxpayer. Early priorities are to improve reliability and cut delays. One
consortium, Tube Lines, is putting all its contracts out to open tender, for
which the three shareholders will be able to bid against other companies.

Improvements to stations include replacement or refurbished lifts and
escalators, regular 'deep cleans' and a complete rebuild of Wembley Park
station to serve the new national sports stadium.

The other consortium, Metronet, is carrying out much of the work itself and
is funded in a very different way, with investment from the five partners,
European and other banks, a bond issue, government grants and farebox
revenue.

Included in this investment are new signalling systems for the Victoria and
sub-surface lines, seven extra trains and improvements in service levels and
journey times on Victoria Line. Track, points and crossings will be renewed,
along with a comprehensive upgrade of all civil assets in the first 15
years, including 4,800 bridges, 1,600 structures and buildings, 130km of
tunnels, 155km of embankments, 225km track drainage and 150 stations.

LONDON UNDERGROUND ROLLING STOCK
One of Tube Lines' earliest decisions was a £160 million order for signal
upgrades to increase capacity and extra Jubilee Line cars to expand the
fleet from the current 59 six-car trains to 63 seven-car sets. The vehicles
will be similar to those already in service on the Jubilee Line, built by
Alstom in 1997-99. However, closure of the manufacturing plant at Washwood
Heath in Birmingham means they will have to be built outside the UK.

The major part of the £3.4 billion contract awarded to Bombardier in April
2003 covers the supply of 1,738 Metro cars for the sub-surface and Victoria
lines between 2008-15, all of which will be built at Derby.

In total, 47 eight-car Movia 248 trains (part of the Bombardier Movia Metro
family) will be built for the deep-tube Victoria Line with two
pre-production prototypes arriving in 2006. Once the design is accepted, one
train will roll off the assembly line every 15 days until August 2012. The
Bakerloo Line will have to wait until 2019 for new trains.

For the larger loading gauge Sub-Surface Lines (SSL), 190 Movia 237 trains
will replace older stock on the Metropolitan, District, Circle and
Hammersmith & City lines. Two prototypes on the 'Met' will have to run
40,000km - both empty and in traffic - to ensure they are fit for purpose.
Bombardier's innovative bolted assembly process will be used to ensure rapid
construction.

For the first time, all sub-surface trains will be to the same design apart
from train length to bring economies of scale on spares and maintenance, and
will be the first on LUL to feature inter-connecting full-width gangways,
creating more space and increased security for passengers.

Improved acceleration and braking will shorten journey times and allow a
planned increase in frequency on the Victoria Line from 28 trains per hour
to 33. In the meantime, 75 six-car District Line trains, the last of
existing stock to be replaced, are being refurbished.

LUL SIGNALLING AND COMMUNICATIONS
Much of LUL's signalling is old and unreliable and the Infracos have pledged
to upgrade all equipment across the system.

Westinghouse has been named as Metronet's sub-contractor for the signalling
side of the contracts, worth around £850 million. It will install new train
control systems on Metronet lines to improve safety and reduce headways,
although the new system will not be 'moving block'. Around 75% of LUL
control equipment is Westinghouse and the company has been a supplier to the
Underground for over 50 years. For this reason it was the preferred choice
for Metronet and Bombardier.

PPP envisages a 15% increase in capacity over the next 30 years, but this
looks likely to be inadequate for the growth anticipated.

THE FUTURE
By 2010, Tube Lines should have upgraded all 24 stations on the Jubilee
Line, replaced over 16km of track and repaired 5km of drainage.

By the same date the Northern Line should have had 40 stations upgraded,
delays cut, 24km of new track and over 6km of drainage replaced. A year
later a new signalling system should improve journey times by 18%, with
real-time train running information on stations and trains.

Further into the future, new signalling is planned system for the Piccadilly
Line to improve journey times by a fifth, with 93 new trains.



***



Thanks

Gareth

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

Boltar wrote:

I meant the Victoria Line... your absolutely right, the picadilly line

So who's Emma Clark anyway?

http://www.emmaclarke.com/


--
Joel Rowbottom, Chief Bespectacled Idiot, joelatfotopicdotnet
14M+ photos :: 215+ countries :: Free gallery at http://fotopic.net
Now selling big 15oz mugs and steel travel mugs @ http://shop.fotopic.net

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

Boltar wrote:

I meant the Victoria Line... your absolutely right, the picadilly line


So who's Emma Clark anyway?



http://www.emmaclarke.com/

She seems to do so many voiceovers that you probably hear her every day
without realising!

Cheers,

Steve M

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:35:51 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

[snip]
I have replied with a couple of pictures before i read this, so it blurbs on
about the trains, whether they will or wont exist. I am interested to know
how much is true, however, so here is what I read. Would be interested in
any comments?

***


LONDON UNDERGROUND MAJOR REGENERATION SCHEME, UNITED KINGDOM
London has one of the largest metro systems in the world, carrying almost
one billion passengers a year. Although much of the 'Tube' was built by
private enterprise in the late 19th and early 20th Century, for the last
half-century it has been in public ownership, and governments of all
complexions have been guilty of starving London Underground (LUL) of
funding.

I'd say that was pretty factual.

When the Labour Government came to power in 1997, it chose a Public Private
Partnership (PPP), under which private companies would help to finance
regeneration in return for lengthy maintenance/management contracts and
guaranteed returns. The once autonomous London Underground is now split into
four organisations - two infrastructure companies (Infracos) and Transport
for London. The Infracos are responsible for the maintenance and management
of infrastructure (track, tunnels, stations and structures) and trains.

It is actually 3 infrastructure companies and LUL. TfL own LUL via
Transport Trading. The article is a little loose with its terminology.
LUL manages the trains in terms of how they run and work during the day.
Infracos maintain and upgrade them and ensure they are safe to use on
the railway.

TUBE INFRASTRUCTURE
Around £16 billion investment has been promised by the Government and the
two Infraco consortia over the next 30 years: £4 billion from the private
sector, £5 billion from farebox and retail revenues and £7 billion from the
taxpayer. Early priorities are to improve reliability and cut delays. One
consortium, Tube Lines, is putting all its contracts out to open tender, for
which the three shareholders will be able to bid against other companies.

Not sure I agree with the numbers. Ultimately all the money comes from
the taxpayer as the borrowing and risk for the Infracos is within the
bid infrastructure service charge. It is true that Tube Lines' approach
is to competitively tender as there are no suppliers in the consortium
structure.

Improvements to stations include replacement or refurbished lifts and
escalators, regular 'deep cleans' and a complete rebuild of Wembley Park
station to serve the new national sports stadium.

LUL is paying for the expansion of Wembley Park although a part of the
scope was included within the PPP Contract in so far as it applied to
the old size of the station. The lift and escalator programme has been
rescheduled although reliability work on the worst performing lifts has
been brought forward in Tube Lines land.

The other consortium, Metronet, is carrying out much of the work itself and
is funded in a very different way, with investment from the five partners,
European and other banks, a bond issue, government grants and farebox
revenue.

Metronet is a supply chain organisation and its constituent parts are
big businesses who build or maintain railway assets. They are
restructuring themselves as performance to date has been dire -
especially on project works. It remains to be seen what happens with
Metronet following their restructuring.

Included in this investment are new signalling systems for the Victoria and
sub-surface lines, seven extra trains and improvements in service levels and
journey times on Victoria Line. Track, points and crossings will be renewed,
along with a comprehensive upgrade of all civil assets in the first 15
years, including 4,800 bridges, 1,600 structures and buildings, 130km of
tunnels, 155km of embankments, 225km track drainage and 150 stations.

I have to say that I will believe the Victoria Line upgrade when I see
it. I am not close to the project but given the delays Metronet have
encountered on relatively simple station projects I dread to think what
is happening with something very complex like the Vic Line upgrade. I
sincerely hope to be proved wrong as I use the Vic Line all the time.

The civil asset upgrades have a timespan of 22½ years in the contract.

LONDON UNDERGROUND ROLLING STOCK
One of Tube Lines' earliest decisions was a £160 million order for signal
upgrades to increase capacity and extra Jubilee Line cars to expand the
fleet from the current 59 six-car trains to 63 seven-car sets. The vehicles
will be similar to those already in service on the Jubilee Line, built by
Alstom in 1997-99. However, closure of the manufacturing plant at Washwood
Heath in Birmingham means they will have to be built outside the UK.

Yes - this is to deliver the seven car upgrade and achieve an interim
upgrade in capability for the Jubilee Line.

The major part of the £3.4 billion contract awarded to Bombardier in April
2003 covers the supply of 1,738 Metro cars for the sub-surface and Victoria
lines between 2008-15, all of which will be built at Derby.

If Bombardier can afford to keep Derby ticking over until then. There is
a real shortage of work and they are sacking more people. Quite where
the labour force is going to come from to ramp up production I am not
sure.

In total, 47 eight-car Movia 248 trains (part of the Bombardier Movia Metro
family) will be built for the deep-tube Victoria Line with two
pre-production prototypes arriving in 2006. Once the design is accepted, one
train will roll off the assembly line every 15 days until August 2012. The
Bakerloo Line will have to wait until 2019 for new trains.

If the Vic Line is not arriving until 2012 then I think it will be at
least 2 years late against the target. I'm not at all convinced that
date of 2012 is right.

Improved acceleration and braking will shorten journey times and allow a
planned increase in frequency on the Victoria Line from 28 trains per hour
to 33. In the meantime, 75 six-car District Line trains, the last of
existing stock to be replaced, are being refurbished.

It is true that improvements to acceleration and braking are important
but there are many related issues such as power consumption, heat
generation / tunnel ventilation, track and structures wear if the trains
are too heavy that all have to be considered. The implications of DDA
compliance are also key as revised regulations have been issued and more
are in the pipeline.

Well it is true the D stock is being refurbished. I even got on one of
the trains the other week - it wasn't too bad but then I like the old D
stock interior anyway. I just hope they have wrecked the reliability of
the trains in the process of refurbishment.

LUL SIGNALLING AND COMMUNICATIONS
Much of LUL's signalling is old and unreliable and the Infracos have pledged
to upgrade all equipment across the system.

Westinghouse has been named as Metronet's sub-contractor for the signalling
side of the contracts, worth around £850 million. It will install new train
control systems on Metronet lines to improve safety and reduce headways,
although the new system will not be 'moving block'. Around 75% of LUL
control equipment is Westinghouse and the company has been a supplier to the
Underground for over 50 years. For this reason it was the preferred choice
for Metronet and Bombardier.

Westinghouse had to win a contract from one or other of the Infracos or
else they'd be in dire trouble. Tube Lines have gone with Alcatel for
the Northern and Jubilee Line signalling and control upgrades.

THE FUTURE
By 2010, Tube Lines should have upgraded all 24 stations on the Jubilee
Line, replaced over 16km of track and repaired 5km of drainage.
By the same date the Northern Line should have had 40 stations upgraded,
delays cut, 24km of new track and over 6km of drainage replaced. A year
later a new signalling system should improve journey times by 18%, with
real-time train running information on stations and trains.
Further into the future, new signalling is planned system for the Piccadilly
Line to improve journey times by a fifth, with 93 new trains.

Typically Tube Lines are proceeding well with their station works. 7th
car on the Jubilee Line is on track for January next year. Their track
programme started late but is going reasonably well. There are big
issues with Northern Line performance and the Jubilee Line has good
months and then bad ones. It needs stability. The Picc Line - barring
the bit between Acton and Barons Court which Metronet maintain - is
pretty damn good overall. The performance numbers for the train service
are good although signal issues are problematic. There has been a step
change improvement on this line - if only we could have it on all lines.

The biggest challenges for PPP remain in the future. Concerted efforts
have seen some reliability improvements but a lot still needs to be done
to deal with the interface between aging assets and the improvement
works being implemented to replace them. The train service still has to
run in the meantime and that's where the issues are.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:35:51 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:






It will install new train
control systems on Metronet lines to improve safety and reduce headways,
although the new system will not be 'moving block'.
I understood the reason why the jubilee line was late to Stratford was
in problems over "Moving Block" signalling. Have they still not got
this item right yet? Couldn't LUL insist on such a system which when
working could be seriously advantageous to all the network? Private
companies were brought in to do the work, if they can't deliver
shouldn't they either be sacked as a common worker would or be penalised
until they came up with the goods? Or are punters just cattle who feed
the big corporations and have to put up with inferior service?
--
Clive

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

In article ,
(Clive) wrote:

In message , Paul
Corfield writes
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:35:51 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

It will install new train
control systems on Metronet lines to improve safety and reduce
headways, although the new system will not be 'moving block'.
I understood the reason why the jubilee line was late to Stratford
was in problems over "Moving Block" signalling. Have they still
not got this item right yet? Couldn't LUL insist on such a system
which when working could be seriously advantageous to all the
network? Private companies were brought in to do the work, if they
can't deliver shouldn't they either be sacked as a common worker
would or be penalised until they came up with the goods? Or are
punters just cattle who feed the big corporations and have to put up
with inferior service?

I thought they gave up on moving block signalling to meet the 1999
opening date. Are there any plans yet to introduce moving block or any
other automatically driven trains? I thought not.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
I thought they gave up on moving block signalling to meet the 1999
opening date. Are there any plans yet to introduce moving block or any
other automatically driven trains? I thought not.
May be on LU but I understood it was part of the ongoing research by
Westinghouse to keep ahead of the crowd.
--
Clive

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:24:23 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

Not sure how Bombardier would feel about the IPR of
the Central Line trains being "stolen" to inform the design of the
Piccadilly Line trains.
--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!

What would you want of the design of the 92TS? The far too powerfull
traction system. DTS. The famous motor bracket!!

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:35:51 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

Westinghouse has been named as Metronet's sub-contractor for the
signalling
side of the contracts, worth around £850 million. It will install new
train
control systems on Metronet lines to improve safety and reduce headways,
although the new system will not be 'moving block'. Around 75% of LUL
control equipment is Westinghouse and the company has been a supplier to
the
Underground for over 50 years. For this reason it was the preferred choice
for Metronet and Bombardier.

Westinghouse had to win a contract from one or other of the Infracos or
else they'd be in dire trouble. Tube Lines have gone with Alcatel for
the Northern and Jubilee Line signalling and control upgrades.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

I didn't think Westinghouse had signed any deal with Metronet at all from
what I know they are a subcontractor for Bombardier who signed a
'performance contract' with Metronet.

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

In message , Andy
writes
What would you want of the design of the 92TS? The far too powerfull
traction system.
When acceleration means reduced times between trains, then there's no
such thing as "far too powerful".
--
Clive

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 00:44:08 +0100, "Andy" wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:24:23 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

Not sure how Bombardier would feel about the IPR of
the Central Line trains being "stolen" to inform the design of the
Piccadilly Line trains.

What would you want of the design of the 92TS? The far too powerfull
traction system. DTS. The famous motor bracket!!

I didn't say LU or Bombardier wanted anything from the 92 stock. Mr
Packer made the remark that Picc Line trains would incorporate elements
from 92 and 95/96 stock but you have deleted his text in your response
thus rendering my comments fairly meaningless.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:25:40 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:35:51 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

It will install new train
control systems on Metronet lines to improve safety and reduce headways,
although the new system will not be 'moving block'.

I understood the reason why the jubilee line was late to Stratford was
in problems over "Moving Block" signalling. Have they still not got
this item right yet? Couldn't LUL insist on such a system which when
working could be seriously advantageous to all the network? Private
companies were brought in to do the work, if they can't deliver
shouldn't they either be sacked as a common worker would or be penalised
until they came up with the goods? Or are punters just cattle who feed
the big corporations and have to put up with inferior service?

Alcatel are dealing with the Jubilee Line therefore the Metronet /
Westinghouse reference is not relevant. As Colin has mentioned in
another post the moving block proposed for the Jubilee Line had to be
scrapped because there was no chance of Westinghouse delivering it, it
would never have been ready for the planned opening date and safety
approval could never have been achieved either. As always with schemes
of the scale of the Jubilee Line Extension a series of claims have
settled to deal with delivery or non delivery of parts of the original
contract. I do not know how the signalling contract was dealt with.

LUL has specified an output for line upgrades. It is not specifying or
insisting on the technology because if it does and it doesn't work the
Infracos have no incentive to fix it. They would also send LU the bill
for fixing it and also for any abatements under the performance regime.
Under PPP they make the choices between track design, power usage, train
design and functionality / capacity and signalling and control systems.
They have to comply with our standards and make sure the trains can be
used by passengers and staff safely and effectively but otherwise the
performance risk is transferred to them.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:35 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:


I thought they gave up on moving block signalling to meet the 1999
opening date. Are there any plans yet to introduce moving block or any
other automatically driven trains? I thought not.
Yes, the moving block intention was dropped in favour of a more
convential track circuit based system by Westinghouse. For the
upgrades the proposals for Jubilee and Northern are based on Alcatel's
SELTRAC system and for the Victoria (and presumably SubSurface)
Westinghouse "Distance to Go".

See here for articles:
SELTRAC http://www.home.alcatel.com/vpr/arch...Key/02102003uk

and here for Distance to Go
http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1084193413828

As Paul C says, no contract has yet been signed between Tubelines and
any suppliers for signalling and trains on the Picc line.

P

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 00:44:08 +0100, "Andy" wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:24:23 GMT, "Gareth Packer"
wrote:

Not sure how Bombardier would feel about the IPR of
the Central Line trains being "stolen" to inform the design of the
Piccadilly Line trains.

What would you want of the design of the 92TS? The far too powerfull
traction system. DTS. The famous motor bracket!!

I didn't say LU or Bombardier wanted anything from the 92 stock. Mr
Packer made the remark that Picc Line trains would incorporate elements
from 92 and 95/96 stock but you have deleted his text in your response
thus rendering my comments fairly meaningless.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Indeed.

I appreciate your comments with regards to the "future of LUL." It
definately helped to clear up the facts anyway.

I must say, with reference to Andy's comment however that I am a fan of the
92, it remains my favourite stock on the network. The acceleration may be
more savaging than other stocks, however acceleration for me is faster in /
faster out and better frequency, which is good in my book.

I too have rode in a "new look" District line train, Im not their biggest
fan it must be said. I far prefer modern technology and new idea's and
designs, although I know that *generally* they are not favoured with the
Drivers.

Thanks again for the remarks.

Gareth

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005, Clive wrote:

In message , Andy
writes

What would you want of the design of the 92TS? The far too powerfull
traction system.

When acceleration means reduced times between trains, then there's no
such thing as "far too powerful".

Go for a good ride on a train which accelerates and brakes at more than
1.2 m/s^2, then come back and tell us that!

I assume we're not talking about that kind of power, though, in which case
i agree with the sentiment - more acceleration is quicker trips and higher
frequencies, and that's all good.

tom

--
Operate all mechanisms!

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

In message , Tom
Anderson writes
Go for a good ride on a train which accelerates and brakes at more than
1.2 m/s^2, then come back and tell us that!

I assume we're not talking about that kind of power, though, in which
case i agree with the sentiment - more acceleration is quicker trips
and higher frequencies, and that's all good.

tom
After spending several years on both the Northern and the Central lines
working on the trains, I know what a train accelerating and decelerating
feels like, both in normal and emergency means. I don't alter my
opinion that you cannot have to much power "acceleration".
--
Clive

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

for the Piccadilly Line upgrade. And performance of the current Northern
Line trains is dire so it would be doubly stupid - Tube Lines will want

I thought the northern line trains were pretty reliable. Unless by
performance
you mean acceleration in which case I'd agree , they do feel (as a
passenger)
to be powered by little more than a rubber band. Farcical when compared
to
the acceleration achieved by the older 92 stock on the central.

B2003

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

What would you want of the design of the 92TS? The far too powerfull
traction system. DTS. The famous motor bracket!!

That was a badly designed bit of support structure , not a badly
designed traction system. In fact , because the 92TS has motors on
every
bogie then in theory (and I think in fact tho I'm not sure) they could
be
less powerful and produce less wear on the running gear than a unit
that has a smaller number of high power motors only in certain cars.
Not to mention better traction because all wheels are motored. I'm sure
Alstom had a good reason for using the old style power car - trailer
car
design (price?) instead of doing the same as the 92 stock, anyone know
what it was?

B2003

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

On 31 Aug 2005 02:21:07 -0700, "Boltar" wrote:

I'm sure
Alstom had a good reason for using the old style power car - trailer
car
design (price?) instead of doing the same as the 92 stock, anyone know
what it was?

PFI contract with risk transferred to suppliers means they will be as
cautious as possible. Therefore stick with what you know, limit the
number of parts that can go wrong and only innovate where you are
completely confident that the technology will deliver cost savings /
performance benefits. Just a guess though.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Piccadilly Line - Emma Clarke Announcements
 

Paul Corfield wrote:
On 31 Aug 2005 02:21:07 -0700, "Boltar" wrote:

I'm sure
Alstom had a good reason for using the old style power car - trailer
car
design (price?) instead of doing the same as the 92 stock, anyone know
what it was?

PFI contract with risk transferred to suppliers means they will be as
cautious as possible. Therefore stick with what you know, limit the
number of parts that can go wrong and only innovate where you are
completely confident that the technology will deliver cost savings /
performance benefits. Just a guess though.

Wouldn't really be innovation given that the 92TS had already done it.
Probably a combination of saving money by re-using and old type of
design plus a dose of Not Invented Here syndrome. Pity really.

B2003