On 10 Oct 2005 00:18:31 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:


Arthur Figgis ] wrote
[...]
language. How on earth can I "press the button for the correct
ticket
for you journey" if you haven't told me how I can work out what
actually is the correct ticket for my journey.

Glad it's not just me that gets annoyed by that!

(Cologne was doing that when I first visited it in my teens [1975].)

Antwerpen did it to me...

The ticket machines on the Grenoble tramway say "Croydon Tramlink
wishes you a good journey" if you select the English option!

Hee !

There is a mention on the unofficial Tramlink site:
http://www.ajg41.plus.com/images/rai...tramlink01.jpg


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In message , Ian Jelf
writes

There are also *many* people from other parts of the UK who *never* use
public transport and I think that that can be a BIG factor.

I think that's probable (a friend of mine has only one bus a week to a
town that happens to have a station, but one with a very poor rail
service - no wonder public transport is not an option).

But in London, I suspect that strangers are reluctant to use buses
because, even when given the route number, they worry about where to get
off because they don't know the visual clues and can't (in these days of
one-man driver and articulated buses) rely on someone to tell them. If
they are in London on an extended holiday, an unexpected over-run may
not matter (although getting to the theatre at a certain time, certainly
will). On a short visit, when getting back to the coach is a priority,
this can become seriously scary.

I also suspect that this view is, by analogy, carried over to using the
tube - such folk probably don't realise how well tube stations are
signed and announced, so again worry about missing their destination.

Just my 2 penn'orth, but based on much travelling by public transport in
various European cities.

--
Paul Terry

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My recent trip to Berlin uncovered a range of extremely detailed
booklets covering the Berlin regional fare system. As with many such
systems it is a complex structure but at least information is readily
available. Much of this was also covered in a superb Berlin Atlas that
shows all the transport routes overlaid on a very clear street atlas
complete with schematic diagrams and frequency guides for every bus,
tram and U Bahn line.
This is very common in Germany. A lot of the area ADAC (German AA/RAC)
area street atlases have such information. For various reasons,
though, service revisions are pretty unco0ommon by comparison with the
UK!
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:49:56 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

But in London, I suspect that strangers are reluctant to use buses
because, even when given the route number, they worry about where to get
off because they don't know the visual clues and can't (in these days of
one-man driver and articulated buses) rely on someone to tell them.

Indeed.

However, the technology exists, and has existed for ages, to name
stops and provide a display inside the bus showing the next stop and
other relevant information, either operated by the driver or
(preferably) by GPS. Hamburg has had this on its buses for years,
London has (or had) on the RV1, and Manchester does on at least some
of the Metroshuttle free buses. Yet it is pretty much 100% absent on
other buses in the UK, even those with electronic outside displays.

Why, I wonder? It is such an obvious (and relatively inexpensive,
certainly in comparison with the price of a brand new bendy) solution
to this fairly big problem. It amazes me that London in particular
has not implemented it. If Mr. Peddle of MK Metro is reading, it'd be
especially suitable for Milton Keynes, where most of the main road
stops look the same!

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:52:17 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:
As for the theory, I think all the things you suggest there can be
factors. I'd add to that fear of being blown up now, too.

Well I suppose that is understandable although there seem to be as many
people as ever using the buses and the tube and the tourist areas seem
to be heaving with people. Is that your experience of more recent weeks
compared to the immediate aftermath of July's incidents?
Fear of terrorist attacks doesn't seem to affect Londoners or overseas
visitors. Just people form other parts of the UK for some reason.

Maybe because they only ever do things in a routine. Exploring new
places is off the agenda for a lot of people.

Again a very fair comment but I use holidays to get out of a routine and
try something or somewhere new with all the unfamiliarity that brings.
As I've said elsewhere, I suppose I by definition tend to attract people
who are less adventurous. (That said, I get lots of bookings for walks
in Bethnal Green and Whitechapel; and not just for "Jack the Ripper"
walks, either!)

Goodness knows how they'd cope with Japan!
One of ,my colleagues who does a lot of long-haul tour managing had a
grandmother and granddaughter on her tour in China some years ago.
Neither of them would eat Chinese food, so they always headed off to any
Western (MdD / KFC) that they spotted everywhere. This resulted - my
friend said - in them missing several major things that they'd gone to
see!

While there is always a learning curve in
any new city - Rome's ticketing system and its buses were a good example
of that for me recently - it's normally quite easy to do a bit of
research, read a guide book, ask some "dumb" questions and off you go.
Do your clients not do any of this?

Often not, no!

I guess I'm just odd then ;-)

You are Ian Jelf AICMFP! :-)
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:05:24 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

Fear of terrorist attacks doesn't seem to affect Londoners or overseas
visitors. Just people form other parts of the UK for some reason.

Which is in itself bizarre, as most people in UK cities grew up with
the IRA and are therefore used to the idea!

While I wouldn't say I ignored it completely[1], it certainly has no
bearing on whether I would go to London (or any other British city) at
any given time. Doing otherwise is letting terrorists win - and even
so, the risk is absolutely minimal compared with that of, say, getting
run over while crossing the road in, err, London. I was both saddened
and surprised by the number of people who posted otherwise on things
like the BBC News Have Your Say pages at the time.

[1] "It won't happen to me" doesn't apply, as it already has; I got
caught up in both the Manchester bomb and the chaos resulting from the
Aintree bomb threat.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:10:23 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:
That said, there may be a "Verbundtarif" going on in the greater
Amsterdam area. They certainly don't only have Strippenkaarts, but
also their own area day tickets and similar.

Annoyingly, said Verbundtarif ends just before Schiphol.

Yes, and this is the area in which you can use a Strippenkaart on the
train, indeed a pain that it ends before the airport.

As it says on
http://www.gvb.nl/reizigers/kaartjek...ppenkaart.html

you can use the Strippenkaart at:

"Bijlmer - Duivendrecht - Amstel - Muiderpoort - Amsterdam Centraal -
Sloterdijk - Lelylaan, Zuid WTC - RAI - Duivendrecht - Diemen-Zuid en
Muiderpoort - Diemen."

U kunt dus *niet* met uw strippenkaart [...] naar Schiphol."

(and the same to you!)

Richard.

Paul Corfield writes:
friend - "where did you go at the weekend"
me - "Catford"
friend - "Why? where's Catford?"
me - "Oh South London, I just went to see what it was like and how to
get there on a bus."
friend - "on a bus? you must be mad"

Now you expect us to believe that these mad peregrinations were not
limited to places that sound sort of like your surname? *Riiiiight!*

:-)
--
Mark Brader | "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
Toronto | "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have
| come here. This is, after all, a Bridge Club."
| -- Ray Lee (after Lewis Carroll)

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
Trying to persuade some of my LU colleagues to use a bus when it is more
convenient than the Tube can prove somewhat challenging! "But it's a
bus?!"
I turned up to a training course north of Wolverhampton by 'bus once.
No-one else on it could believe that I'd done so. It was as thought
I'd just announced a breakthrough in nuclear fusion. No one wanted me
to go back by bus though; everyone felt obliged to offer me a lift!
*ding*

Back in student days -

friend - "where did you go at the weekend"
me - "Catford"
friend - "Why? where's Catford?"
me - "Oh South London, I just went to see what it was like and how to
get there on a bus."
friend - "on a bus? you must be mad"

or words to that effect

I tried to entice a group form North London (for whom I used to do a lot
of offbeat walks) to do one in Kennington once. You'd have though I'd
suggested an afternoon wander around the Kalahari.......
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In message , Neil Williams
writes
However, the technology exists, and has existed for ages, to name stops
and provide a display inside the bus showing the next stop and other
relevant information, either operated by the driver or (preferably) by
GPS. Hamburg has had this on its buses for years, London has (or had)
on the RV1,

Yes, what happened to that? One minute we had these amazing (and
useful) GPS screens, the next they all seemed to be disused.

Two other asides......

One of my passengers describing a bendybus to me at the weekend said
"you know, the ones that look a bit like a Dyson"!

And

I was amazed to hear the PA system used while riding on an 8 near
Holborn on Sunday morning. I couldn't actually understand what the
driver was saying (!) but he seemed to be using it to announce a stop
for someone who must have asked.

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk