On 5 Oct 2005 02:16:30 -0700, "Larry Lard"
wrote:

Oyster in its current form is not suitable for very infrequent
passengers.

Why not? Seems to me that Prepay is *exactly* what very infrequent
passengers need.

I'd say there's a difference between relatively infrequent (e.g. me -
I go to London about once a month, and I would consider an Oyster card
if I didn't normally travel there on an outboundary ODTC) and very
infrequent (e.g. someone who perhaps visits once every 6 months).

To the latter, they probably just want to get a single from the ticket
machine. They may not even understand what Oyster is - some don't
understand what a ODTC is! They certainly won't want to join a
typically long ticket office queue to obtain an Oystercard and top it
up, nor to pay a gbp3 deposit on a card.

Now, there are ways of mitigating this, such as the installation of
Oyster sales machines, either removing the deposit or making it easier
to get it back (e.g. with an Oyster return machine), and posters
explaining an idiot's guide to Oyster alongside the tube maps. But
while the infrastructure for issuing paper tickets exists, it might as
well be used. If TfL simply want to do away with it, why don't they
say so?

None of this is a valid excuse for ripping people off. The fact that
most posters on here have come up with ways around the gbp3 fare would
show me fairly clearly that it is unreasonable.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
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On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:24:45 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote:

Remind me, Neil - how much interest were you going to get on this fiver
that TfL are getting to keep?

Hint: Look down the back of your sofa. You'll probably find the mythical
lost interest there, and more besides.

It is the principle, not the amount, in this particular case.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
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On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:26:57 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote:

No, but if people do gravitate across to Oyster in sufficient numbers,
it will quickly become disproportionately expensive to maintain the
infrastructure to handle these tickets, won't it.

Then an alternative infrastructure would be a good idea, to make the
use of Oyster far easier for such people. Once done, the "old"
infrastructure could be removed.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
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On 5 Oct 2005 02:32:23 -0700, "Richard Adamfi"
wrote:

An all day System One Bus only Daysaver (GM) has now just gone up to
3.50, whereas the equivalent in London will still only be 3.00 from
January (with Oyster).

That was the reason I quoted a rail-only fare - London buses, being
subsidised to a greater extent than provincial ones, have far more
reasonable fares. Rail is in many cases the other way around.

I'm not complaining heavily about the bus fare increase, though it
won't be good for those doing shorter journeys. It's the Z1 Tube fare
I consider unreasonable.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
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Richard Adamfi wrote:

Neil Williams wrote:

It takes 5 mins to get one, and then you just feed a tenner into the
machine when the barriers say you are getting low.

...which TfL get to keep and earn interest on.


If you really want to pay for your tickets one at a time then you can
still do so with Oyster. Instead of putting 3 pound coins into the
machine and getting a paper ticket, you simply touch the Oyster card on
the ticket machine, select 'top-up' then put in the 1.50 then touch the
card onto the ticket machine again.

This way, you still pay the lower Oyster fare but you don't have to pay
in advance and lose your interest to TfL.

I've done exactly this when I've found myself short of Pre Pay credit
on my Oyster card and a bit short of the readies. I just topped up my
Oyster's Pre Pay with loose change using a Tube ticket machine (and if
the machine wasn't working then I'd have gone to the ticket office).

I've also been in a 'Ticket Stop' newsagents where I was behind someone
who just wanted to add two quid of Pre Pay to their Oyster card, which
was done no problem. I asked the proprietor whether there was a
minimum, and he said there wasn't.

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 18:06:13 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

I'm not complaining heavily about the bus fare increase, though it
won't be good for those doing shorter journeys. It's the Z1 Tube fare
I consider unreasonable.

It's not just the Z1 fare. From the TfL press release:

"Outside Zone 1, the cheapest cash single fare will increase to £3
from £1.30 but the comparable Oyster fare will be reduced from £1.10
to £1."

So even going from South Ealing to Northfields will cost £3 if you buy
a paper ticket.

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 19:51:08 +0100, asdf
wrote:

"Outside Zone 1, the cheapest cash single fare will increase to £3
from £1.30 but the comparable Oyster fare will be reduced from £1.10
to £1."

Ouch. I hadn't read that.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message om, Mizter
T writes

You therefore have nothing to worry about with regards to the new fares
regime.

I know that. I have repeatedly (but apparently unsuccessfully) being
trying to say that Oyster offers no benefits to travellers such as me.

TfL would love the Oyster Pre Pay system to go London-wide and be
rolled out across the whole National Rail network in the capital.

Indeed, and I would love it too. But given that is not the case, Oyster
is a lame duck for many occasional commuters, particularly south of the
Thames where most journeys involve National Rail.

Pre-pay is ideal for the increasing number of occasional commuters, for
whom a season ticket is a waste of money. But failure to bring on board
the NR network has seriously compromised the value of pre-pay Oyster for
a significant number of people.

--
Paul Terry

In message , Neil Williams
writes

I'd say there's a difference between relatively infrequent (e.g. me -
I go to London about once a month, and I would consider an Oyster card
if I didn't normally travel there on an outboundary ODTC) and very
infrequent (e.g. someone who perhaps visits once every 6 months).

To the latter, they probably just want to get a single from the ticket
machine. They may not even understand what Oyster is - some don't
understand what a ODTC is! They certainly won't want to join a
typically long ticket office queue to obtain an Oystercard and top it
up, nor to pay a gbp3 deposit on a card.

But surely the main reason is that they won't want to buy an Oystercard
when it cannot be used on most National Railway lines? What would be the
point for anyone who has to use National Rail for their infrequent
journeys?

--
Paul Terry

In article ,
(TKD) wrote:

How does one document the tickets in order to claim expenses then?

You can request a statement which will be mailed to you the same day by
1st class post.

At any time? I expect a receipt when I part with cash. If I pay by
credit card I expect a transaction voucher.

Why should I pay a year's worth up front?

You don't. You can charge up your card with only the cost of your next
journey each time.

And the machines tell me what the Oyster single fares are, do they?

--
Colin Rosenstiel