On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 06:55:12 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:29:49 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote:

But what is the principle? It's effectively no different from buying a
book of ten stamps when you only have an immediate need for one, is it?

You are not penalised for buying one stamp on its own instead. The
price of a book of 12 stamps is 12 times the price of one.

And the price of 12 single journeys using PrePay is twelve times the
price of one.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:58:02 +0100, Paul
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:36:00 +0100, Paul
paulroberthill_NOSPAM wrote:
If you use a travelcard on national rail stick to a paper ticket. With
Oyster you pay *more* money. What a con.

If you buy your Travelcard on Oyster from South West Trains (not sure
about other TOCs) they give you the same discount for poor performance
that you'd get with their paper version.

How many SWT stations in London have the facility to sell Oyster cards?
It's only 2 or 3. Same for SET.

If you care about the discount, you'll go out of your way once a year
to buy your Travelcard.

I buy monthly (as I think the majority of people do). An annual Z1-5
travelcard is a lot of money to pay in one lump sum.

So you're already choosing to pay more.

I just looked at uswitch.com and it gave me a whole list of 12-month
loans that the monthly payment is less than a monthly Travelcard
(using the example of a Z1-5 as quoted).

And that assumes that your employer doesn't offer interest-free loans
for such a purpose.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 01:36:02 +0100, "Chris" wrote:

From: http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/66

"The DfT recently specified that TfL's zonal fares must be rolled out to
all rail services within London by 2007, with a phased approach being
taken to achieve this with an individual train company at a time."

And this is taken from tfl's latest board meeting minutes last month:

TfL's proposal to further integrate Oyster pre-pay on the National
Rail Network has been subject to continuing negotiations with Train
Operating Companies (TOC's) and DfT. The work is not on schedule and
implementation in 2007 is no longer achievable.

Looks like we could be in for a long wait.

If it's going to be introduced one TOC at a time, as mentioned above,
any idea which TOCs might be first, and when we might see it happen?
Do all TOCs have to have agreed together to accept pre-pay before it
can be rolled out on any of them?

Neil Williams wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:29:49 GMT, Chris Tolley
But what is the principle? It's effectively no different from buying a
book of ten stamps when you only have an immediate need for one, is it?
You are not penalised for buying one stamp on its own instead.
The price of a book of 12 stamps is 12 times the price of one.
For the life of me, I can't see how either of those comments relates to
the discussion in hand.

If you want to make a single journey with Oyster, how are you penalised?
If you make a multiple journey, then Oyster can give you a discount
compared with buying individual tickets through the capping process.

The point I was making about the purchase of a stamp book was in light
of your earlier comment about losing interest on a few quid.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9680306.html
(81 001 on an evening duty at Birmingham New Street in 1979)

"Steve M" wrote in message
...

I have a friend who won't get an Oyster card because
she doesn't want "them" to know where she's been
and what she's been doing. Not even an
unregistered pre-pay card...

Presumably she's on benefit and working, in which case the new fares will
claw back some money from her.

My objection to Oyster is the way it fines you every time you don't
concentrate. I have enough pressure to concentrate when I'm working without
having that in my spare time too.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message , at 13:48:31 on Thu,
6 Oct 2005, John Rowland
remarked:
My objection to Oyster is the way it fines you every time you don't
concentrate.

That's because you are guilty until proved innocent.

I agree about the concentrating, by the way. I always seem to forget to
touch in or out at some stage when using the DLR (the pads are in a very
non-obvious place at the station I travel to in docklands) and I've
arrived at Bank before now to discover the pads on the exit of the DLR
weren't working. What is one supposed to do then?
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Chris) wrote:

"TKD" wrote in message
...

As I see it the TOCs are wary of Pre Pay for business reasons, and
given the current business structure of the railways it shouldn't
surprise anyone that they look at things from this perspective.

From: http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/66

"The DfT recently specified that TfL's zonal fares must be rolled out
to all rail services within London by 2007, with a phased approach
being taken to achieve this with an individual train company at a
time."

And this is taken from tfl's latest board meeting minutes last month:

TfL's proposal to further integrate Oyster pre-pay on the National Rail
Network has been subject to continuing negotiations with Train
Operating
Companies (TOC's) and DfT. The work is not on schedule and
implementation in 2007 is no longer achievable.

Looks like we could be in for a long wait.

Even then it doesn't change things for those of us outside London.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Tim Bray) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

At any time? I expect a receipt when I part with cash. If I pay by
credit card I expect a transaction voucher.

When you feed cash into the machine, you press the receipt button and
it gives you one. I had these into work for expenses.

And the machines tell me what the Oyster single fares are, do they?

On the leaflet, next to the machine.

That's not a receipt for the fare paid, just the money put on the card
which might then be used for some other purpose. Don't they teach anyone
accountancy these days?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:58:02 +0100, Paul
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:36:00 +0100, Paul
paulroberthill_NOSPAM wrote:
If you use a travelcard on national rail stick to a paper ticket.
With
Oyster you pay *more* money. What a con.

If you buy your Travelcard on Oyster from South West Trains (not sure
about other TOCs) they give you the same discount for poor performance
that you'd get with their paper version.

How many SWT stations in London have the facility to sell Oyster cards?
It's only 2 or 3. Same for SET.

If you care about the discount, you'll go out of your way once a year
to buy your Travelcard.

I buy monthly (as I think the majority of people do). An annual Z1-5
travelcard is a lot of money to pay in one lump sum.

So you're already choosing to pay more.

No you are not. Anyone with any sense does not buy a monthly
pass to cover their 2 week xmas and summer break and you only
need buy 11 monthly passes (or 10 monthlys and 4 weeklies)

I just looked at uswitch.com and it gave me a whole list of 12-month
loans that the monthly payment is less than a monthly Travelcard
(using the example of a Z1-5 as quoted).

but is it less than 11?

tim

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Tim Bray) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

At any time? I expect a receipt when I part with cash. If I pay by
credit card I expect a transaction voucher.

When you feed cash into the machine, you press the receipt button
and it gives you one. I had these into work for expenses.

And the machines tell me what the Oyster single fares are, do
they?

On the leaflet, next to the machine.

That's not a receipt for the fare paid, just the money put on the
card which might then be used for some other purpose. Don't they
teach anyone accountancy these days?

I think you mean bureaucracy. Accountants some years ago didn't seem to
mind. It was accepted that generally you wouldn't have receipts for
public transport fares, especially on railways where single tickets were
collected at the end of the journey. Do all Tube ticket machines offer
receipts? The old ones certainly didn't.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)