On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:24:53 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote:

If you want to make a single journey with Oyster, how are you penalised?

If it's a very infrequent one, by having 3 quid tied up in the card,
or by having to queue at the ticket office twice, one to get the card
loaded with a single fare, and one to give it back and get your 3 quid
returned.

Incidentally, I don't find the idea of ripping off tourists and
non-Londoners (which has been mentioned as a target) remotely
acceptable.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:38:30 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote:

Look at it this way. They COULD have announced "No more cash fares".

And if they had, they'd have had to improve the Oyster issuing
facilities, e.g. by providing issuing machines, else there'd be
massive queues at ticket offices.

Instead, they copped out and introduced unreasonably high single
fares.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Paul wrote in
:

Mizter T wrote:
TfL would love the Oyster Pre Pay system to go London-wide and be
rolled out across the whole National Rail network in the capital.

I have a sneaking suspicion that TFLs long term aim is to get rid of
travelcards altogether and move everyone on to pre-pay oysters (with the
daily cap thing still applying).


Wasn't the original idea to do this from day one but TfL rather forgot
about National Rail and just how complex the various fare "structures" in
London now are? - if your journey starts on a bus pre-pay capping is a vast
improvement on the existing system as you no longer need know in advance
when you are going to travel.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 21:39:52 +0000 (UTC), David Jackman
wrote:

Wasn't the original idea to do this from day one but TfL rather forgot
about National Rail and just how complex the various fare "structures" in
London now are?

Quite possibly. I think a pre-requisite of NR Pre-Pay is a true
Verbundtarif, which even London doesn't have yet.

I will be interested to see what happens in GMPTEland when the
"Readycard" (I think that was what they were calling it) is
introduced, given the complicated mess of bus fares there.

if your journey starts on a bus pre-pay capping is a vast
improvement on the existing system as you no longer need know in advance
when you are going to travel.

Agreed.

I'm not anti-Oyster, incidentally. I'd have one if it made sense for
me to do so; it doesn't as I only ever go to London on outboundary day
Travelcards. I just don't think the approach that has been taken is
an appropriate one, certainly not with a gbp3 Zone 1 single.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

(Neil Williams) wrote in
:

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:29:49 GMT, Chris Tolley
wrote:

But what is the principle? It's effectively no different from buying a
book of ten stamps when you only have an immediate need for one, is it?

You are not penalised for buying one stamp on its own instead. The
price of a book of 12 stamps is 12 times the price of one.

Neil


No, but you are penalised for buying stamps rather than machine franking
(which is now a penny or two cheaper).

Neil Williams wrote:

Incidentally, I don't find the idea of ripping off tourists and
non-Londoners (which has been mentioned as a target) remotely
acceptable.

Neither do I. But then nor do I find it remotely likely either. Whenever
I've travelled in foreign parts, the local tourist publicity has always
been informative about how to get the most out of local public
transport.

I think you are tilting at windmills.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632874.html
(A 33/1+4-TC combination at London Waterloo: 33 104, 28 Mar 1981)

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 18:43:40 +0200, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:


"James Farrar" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:58:02 +0100, Paul
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:36:00 +0100, Paul
paulroberthill_NOSPAM wrote:
If you use a travelcard on national rail stick to a paper ticket.
With
Oyster you pay *more* money. What a con.

If you buy your Travelcard on Oyster from South West Trains (not sure
about other TOCs) they give you the same discount for poor performance
that you'd get with their paper version.

How many SWT stations in London have the facility to sell Oyster cards?
It's only 2 or 3. Same for SET.

If you care about the discount, you'll go out of your way once a year
to buy your Travelcard.

I buy monthly (as I think the majority of people do). An annual Z1-5
travelcard is a lot of money to pay in one lump sum.

So you're already choosing to pay more.

No you are not. Anyone with any sense does not buy a monthly
pass to cover their 2 week xmas and summer break

Assuming you take your holiday as such. In my experience most people
take their holiday entitlement in more than two blocks.

I just looked at uswitch.com and it gave me a whole list of 12-month
loans that the monthly payment is less than a monthly Travelcard
(using the example of a Z1-5 as quoted).

but is it less than 11?

Many are.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:37:18 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:38:30 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote:

Look at it this way. They COULD have announced "No more cash fares".

And if they had, they'd have had to improve the Oyster issuing
facilities, e.g. by providing issuing machines, else there'd be
massive queues at ticket offices.

But that would only be a short-term "problem." Once the vast majority
have Oysters, ticket-office custom will be a lot lower.

Instead, they copped out and introduced unreasonably high single
fares.

For those stupid enough not to use Oyster.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

On 4/10/05 8:39 pm, in article
, "Mizter T"
wrote:

in cash single fares on the Tubes and buses, but the BBC News story
story contains the critical information on how to avoid these fares
increases. And that is to ***get an Oyster card and start using the Pre
Pay system to pay for single fares on the Tubes and buses***.

It is that simple.

Not if you get on the bus and find you are out of credit. Or if you mislay
your oyster. Or if you rarely use public transport in London at all. Cash
fares are your only option; they should not be a rip off.

--

U n d e r a c h i e v e r

Instead, they copped out and introduced unreasonably high single
fares.

For those stupid enough not to use Oyster.

Exactly. Anyone foolish enough to pay £3 instead of £1 for their journey
has no right to complain. (A single outside Zone1 from 2006)

People not from London can stop complaining too. Londoners deserve
cheaper fares, in fact we pay in part for the costs of the Underground
through our council tax so I'm perfectly happy to no longer subsidise
tourists and visitors who, for whatever reason, do not adopt Oyster.

And finally the people in London but on National Rail routes who claim
to be excluded. What rubbish - are you telling me you never use the bus?
Get an Oyster card and you can start saving when you do. You don't even
pay tube level fares when you do use the train. Point to point fares are
often much less than zonal fares. Those routes that are charged at LUL
rates are the same routes that went over to Oyster prepay in the first place
anyway. And why focus your anger at TfL or Ken like the Evening Standard
or the Daily Mail instructed you to? Lobby the train companies!!