In message , TKD
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

You cannot use pre-pay Oyster on South-West Trains (or on most other
National Rail services in London), so the only part of the journey
covered by Oyster is the bus and tube journeys. That comes to £5.90,
which is well below the £8 cap for peak-time travel in both Zones 1-4.

You would come under the Zone 1 cap as all your tube use is in Zone 1.
Bus journeys ignore zones and are included in any capped tube price even
if the bus journey was in a totally different zone to the tube cap.

Not sure what that makes your cap without looking it up.

The Peak Zone 1 cap is £6, so £5.40 (sorry, its not £5.90) still
wouldn't reach the cap. Thus Oyster remains almost 50% more expensive
for the journey I have described.

--
Paul Terry

"Paul Terry" wrote in message ...
In message , TKD writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message ...

You cannot use pre-pay Oyster on South-West Trains (or on most other National Rail services in
London), so the only part of the journey covered by Oyster is the bus and tube journeys. That
comes to £5.90, which is well below the £8 cap for peak-time travel in both Zones 1-4.

You would come under the Zone 1 cap as all your tube use is in Zone 1.
Bus journeys ignore zones and are included in any capped tube price even
if the bus journey was in a totally different zone to the tube cap.

Not sure what that makes your cap without looking it up.

The Peak Zone 1 cap is £6, so £5.40 (sorry, its not £5.90) still wouldn't reach the cap. Thus
Oyster remains almost 50% more expensive for the journey I have described.

If I were you I'd buy a travelcard. :-)

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:13:03 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

Germans who in a lot of cases (e.g. Hamburg) can do a
multimodal journey involving several modes and changes on one single
ticket.

You mean rather like a Travelcard? Or an Oyster capped at Travelcard
rate?

No, that's the equivilent of a day pass for multiple journeys.

Almost all German municipal transist systems allow:
unlimited changes within a specified time for a single
journey (in a single direction) for the price of single
ticket for the zones traversed.

There is nothing equivilent to this on any UK system that
I know of.

tim

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 18:15:56 +0100, "TKD" wrote:


Does anyone have any news on what is happening to weekly/monthly travelcard
prices?

Am just wondering if they will be going down to reflect the reductions in Oyster pre-pay or not..

http://www.london.gov.uk/news/docs/fares_2006.pdf

thanks for posting that link. It's the first time I've seen the full set
of fares in all their "glory". I've been away so haven't quite been
able to understand quite what all the furore is about elsewhere in the
thread. However I now understand.

While I understand the principle of providing an incentive for people to
switch to Oyster - in HK there is a differential between Octopus (SVT)
and cash fares - this is really quite extreme. I can foresee horrendous
short term problems come January when people try to get their heads
round this set up. I feel tremendously sad for passengers and ticketing
staff who will have to try to cope with all of this.

It is evident from posts here, as well as from the very low level of
take up, that people simply do not understand what pre pay is and how it
works. The huge attachment to Travelcard and its relative ease of use is
obviously a factor in making it hard for people to understand how
pre-pay works alongside it or in the case of capping or extensions in
conjunction with it. TfL urgently need to get more information out to
actual and potential card holders as to how Oyster works - publicity has
been dumbed down too far.

While I would like to think that I'm a bit of an expert on ticketing
matters I feel that I'm losing the plot in terms of trying to understand
exactly how all of this is going to work in practice. There are simply
too many variables and choices despite various aspects of the ticketing
range having been removed over the last 2-3 years.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 07:29:15 +0100, U n d e r a c h i e v e r
wrote:

On 7/10/05 12:31 pm, in article ,
"John Ray" wrote:

I don't think that a cash fare of GBP3 is intended to be seen as
reasonable.

If it isn't, and I think it's not, it will not be lawful

I doubt that, even though I do feel it is too high. Organisations can
legally charge what they like for their services.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:54:15 +0100, "TKD" wrote:

And it is not supposed to be. It is for Londonders not "people all over the
Home counties"

Don't be silly. It is for whoever uses London's transport. There is
no requirement to live in London.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:15:26 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

Interestingly, people from overseas often tend to be, much more at home
with London's transport system than people from other parts of the UK.

I can't say I am very surprised by this statement except that most
Americans have little experience of public transport systems. They then
(IME) tend to be overawed when they venture on to the Tube or possibly
even a bus.

Watching two American ladies trying to buy day tickets in Berlin last
week was an excruciating experience. The BVG chap was incredibly
patient.

My group this weekend were on what was essentially a theatre break and
many of them do the same thing several times a year. And yet I
estimate that 80% of them went no further than they could walk from Park
Lane this morning (bearing in mind we dropped them off there at about
1030 and picked them up at 1500). Coming back to the coach, four
ladies managed to get lost between Hyde Park Corner and the coach which
was parked near the new "Animals at War" monument near Upper Brook
Street.

Do you have a theory as to why this is? Are they just nervous about
being in a big city, frightened they are going to be robbed or just have
no sense of direction and thus are likely to get lost?

Last night two people tried to "latch on" to another (much more
resourceful) couple because they were nervous about my instructions to
get to the Dominion Theatre in Tottenham Court Road from the drop off in
Shaftesbury Avenue, despite my careful explanation.

Although it may seem otherwise, I'm not painting these people out to be
dim or stupid but just trying to explain that what probably seems
commonplace to people on utl can seem very, very unfamiliar to people
who are strangers to London.

I appreciate you are not being cruel about these people but it does make
me wonder how they cope in doing other basic life tasks - assuming they
are not disabled in some way. While there is always a learning curve in
any new city - Rome's ticketing system and its buses were a good example
of that for me recently - it's normally quite easy to do a bit of
research, read a guide book, ask some "dumb" questions and off you go.
Do your clients not do any of this?

And yes, slapping an Oyster Card on a yellow disc *would* intimidate
some!

Having seen people trying to feed Oyster cards into both the entry and
exit slots on ticket gates I would agree. I also had problems getting
the "swipe speed" correct for New York's Metrocard when I used it a few
years ago. That made me feel a bit of a dimbo!

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:57:08 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote:

You mean rather like a Travelcard? Or an Oyster capped at Travelcard
rate?

No, a *single* ticket, i.e. one which permits one journey in one
direction only, not an unlimited-journey ticket. The kind that will
cost gbp3 under the new arrangements

Something similar exists in many other countries - almost a two-hour
Travelcard type thing.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

And it is not supposed to be. It is for Londonders not "people all over the
Home counties"

Don't be silly. It is for whoever uses London's transport. There is
no requirement to live in London.

No. The primary market is Londoners.

The secondary market is people from somewhere else who use it to travel
*within* London.

Colin Rosenstiel was talking about journeys from a place outside London to
a place in London and Oyster Card is not intended for that, which was my
point.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:25 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

Except that for them it is the only ticketing choice

No, it isn't. There is a wide array of day, season and single
ticketing, though all of it is interavailable and identically-priced
on all modes. That's a true Verbundtarif, and something London (and
all the provincial cities - though it'll take longer with the bus
deregulation issue) really should be aiming at.

After all, why should a person who is disadvantaged by not having a
direct Tube service, and therefore requires two buses and a Tube
journey, be penalised over someone whose journey of an identical
length only requires one Tube trip?

The concept is of a public transport system, which is treated as a
whole. Not individual and distinct modes. Oyster would be an
absolutely ideal way to implement this kind of thing, as it could cap
single journeys involving multiple buses (for example) even if it
didn't reach the Travelcard cap.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.