On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:51:49 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

I was amazed to hear the PA system used while riding on an 8 near
Holborn on Sunday morning. I couldn't actually understand what the
driver was saying (!) but he seemed to be using it to announce a stop
for someone who must have asked.

Back over in Germany, before the displays came along (and on the few
buses that probably remain now without them) the driver announces
every stop.

I don't think I've ever heard one in use over here. Drivers tend to
prefer, if they really need to talk to the passengers, to turn around
and shout.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:17:10 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:51:49 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

I was amazed to hear the PA system used while riding on an 8 near
Holborn on Sunday morning. I couldn't actually understand what the
driver was saying (!) but he seemed to be using it to announce a stop
for someone who must have asked.

Back over in Germany, before the displays came along (and on the few
buses that probably remain now without them) the driver announces
every stop.

The displays and announcements on Berlin's buses were excellent. I agree
they are a great aide to anyone unfamiliar with a city.

I don't think I've ever heard one in use over here. Drivers tend to
prefer, if they really need to talk to the passengers, to turn around
and shout.

Bus drivers do tend to use them a fair bit - now that most buses have
the kit inside them - although it would be good if they were given some
basic "use of PA" training ;-)

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:42:04 -0000, (Mark Brader) wrote:

Paul Corfield writes:
friend - "where did you go at the weekend"
me - "Catford"
friend - "Why? where's Catford?"
me - "Oh South London, I just went to see what it was like and how to
get there on a bus."
friend - "on a bus? you must be mad"

Now you expect us to believe that these mad peregrinations were not
limited to places that sound sort of like your surname? *Riiiiight!*

:-)

Catford sounds like Corfield?! You must be some sort of mad Canadian.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:59:35 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My recent trip to Berlin uncovered a range of extremely detailed
booklets covering the Berlin regional fare system. As with many such
systems it is a complex structure but at least information is readily
available. Much of this was also covered in a superb Berlin Atlas that
shows all the transport routes overlaid on a very clear street atlas
complete with schematic diagrams and frequency guides for every bus,
tram and U Bahn line.
This is very common in Germany. A lot of the area ADAC (German AA/RAC)
area street atlases have such information. For various reasons,
though, service revisions are pretty unco0ommon by comparison with the
UK!

Well the Berlin Atlas had an excellent supplement that detailed all the
changes that had taken place since publication including revised U Bahn
and Metrobus / Metrotram networks where these applied. The U Bahn
service structure has changed quite considerably since my last visit and
has changed a fair bit even this year as has the S Bahn - there is still
loads of work going on.

They also had good quality leaflets about works on the tram routes for
October in the trams and an in house magazine available free on the
buses. There was also good information on S Bahn service alterations -
again with revised network maps - which my limited German skills allowed
me to broadly understand.

All a bt of a step up in quality from London practice although I accept
tube information about planned works is pretty good these days. Bus
service information - especially about changes - is dire unless you rely
on the Internet.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , Neil Williams
writes
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:51:49 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:

I was amazed to hear the PA system used while riding on an 8 near
Holborn on Sunday morning. I couldn't actually understand what the
driver was saying (!) but he seemed to be using it to announce a stop
for someone who must have asked.

Back over in Germany, before the displays came along (and on the few
buses that probably remain now without them) the driver announces
every stop.
I remember one in Berlin being (uncharacteristically for Prussian
officialdom) being very funny with his announcements on the 100. At
the height of the rebuilding of the Freidrichsplatz area a few years ago
he would say "Grosse Baustelle" [1] for that particular stop!

I don't think I've ever heard one in use over here. Drivers tend to
prefer, if they really need to talk to the passengers, to turn around
and shout.
I've only heard it used once here, on the 205. For that reason it
really made me jump when it suddenly boomed into life on Sunday morning
with the speaker right above my head.

(Interestingly I recently needed to get the use of a PA-equipped double
decker here in the West Midlands for a tour I was doing for a private
group of Birmingham's famous "Outer Circle" 11 bus route. It proved
very difficult! Travel West Midlands no longer have any such equipped
buses, although the "Timesaver" Metrobuses used to have them in the
1980s. Claribel's, a small but very smart independent in East Birmingham
actually installed one to their solitary double decker just for the
purpose!)

[1] Big Building site for non-German speakers, which I know won't
apply to Neil!
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

Much of this was also covered in a superb Berlin
Atlas that shows all the transport routes overlaid
on a very clear street atlas complete with schematic
diagrams and frequency guides for every bus,
tram and U Bahn line. First and last times are
included together with times between every stop
and what routes you can interchange to at each
stop. Their stop specific information is also a model
of clarity. Please can we have this for London !!!!!!

Have you considered how large it would be? Berlin is a tiny city by
comparison with London, and yet the Berlin atlas is too large already.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Neil Williams wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:51:49 +0100, Ian Jelf
wrote:


I was amazed to hear the PA system used while riding on an 8 near
Holborn on Sunday morning. I couldn't actually understand what the
driver was saying (!) but he seemed to be using it to announce a stop
for someone who must have asked.


Back over in Germany, before the displays came along (and on the few
buses that probably remain now without them) the driver announces
every stop.

I don't think I've ever heard one in use over here. Drivers tend to
prefer, if they really need to talk to the passengers, to turn around
and shout.

I've only ever heard it used once[1]. N73. Walthamstow. I was the only
person on the bus. Asleep in the luggage rack. (Look, the bus was packed
when I got on!) So why he didn't just turn round and shout, I don't know.

Luckily, I did actually live in Walthamstow at the time :-)

But I am surprised they aren't used more.

[1] Oh, there was one other time too.

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:53 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:
....
The concept is of a public transport system, which is treated as a
whole. Not individual and distinct modes. Oyster would be an
absolutely ideal way to implement this kind of thing, as it could cap
single journeys involving multiple buses (for example) even if it
didn't reach the Travelcard cap.

Indeed. Far too sensible for whoever is Transport Secretary this week,
though.

And well-covered in a "Yes Minister" episode which was repeated
recently on BBC4. Jim Hacker is appointed Transport Supremo to push
integrated transport until he cops that it's Whitehall's poisoned
chalice. Now if that was a joke in the '80 it's a very long-running
not so funny joke.

--
New anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com

Neil Williams wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:49:56 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

But in London, I suspect that strangers are reluctant to use buses
because, even when given the route number, they worry about where to get
off because they don't know the visual clues and can't (in these days of
one-man driver and articulated buses) rely on someone to tell them.

I agree. There's nothing worse than being on a bus going to somewhere
you're not familiar with. You have to hope there is a shop sign or road
name that will give a clue to the location.

Indeed.

However, the technology exists, and has existed for ages, to name
stops and provide a display inside the bus showing the next stop and
other relevant information, either operated by the driver or
(preferably) by GPS. Hamburg has had this on its buses for years,
London has (or had) on the RV1, and Manchester does on at least some
of the Metroshuttle free buses. Yet it is pretty much 100% absent on
other buses in the UK, even those with electronic outside displays.

Why, I wonder? It is such an obvious (and relatively inexpensive,
certainly in comparison with the price of a brand new bendy) solution
to this fairly big problem. It amazes me that London in particular
has not implemented it. If Mr. Peddle of MK Metro is reading, it'd be
especially suitable for Milton Keynes, where most of the main road
stops look the same!

Makes perfect sense to me! Surely with the bus tracking systems we
already have it wouldn't be hard for the bus to 'know' where it
currently is?

--
Paul

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:00:48 +0100, Paul
wrote:

I agree. There's nothing worse than being on a bus going to somewhere
you're not familiar with.

Yes there is. Try sitting through "Woman In White" :-)