North Woolwich branch to close
 

I have been informed that notices have gone up on all North London Line
stations to tell people that the line between Stratford Low Level and North
Woolwich will close in September 2006. This is presumably when the new DLR
City Airport branch will open. The NLL will terminate at Stratford High
Level.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

North Woolwich branch to close
 

Has the Custom House to North Woolwich stretch not already
closed?http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/9 suggests the southern
part of the DLR route from North Woolwich to Canning Town will open on
the 16th December 2005 but there has been some press comment that this
might be earlier.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

Has the Custom House to North Woolwich stretch not already
closed?http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/9 suggests the southern
part of the DLR route from North Woolwich to Canning Town will open on
the 16th December 2005 but there has been some press comment that this
might be earlier.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

In message , John Rowland
writes

I have been informed that notices have gone up on all North London Line
stations to tell people that the line between Stratford Low Level and North
Woolwich will close in September 2006. This is presumably when the new DLR
City Airport branch will open.

No, the City Airport branch is already running test trains and is
scheduled to open in about 2 months.

The closure will be for the construction of the Stratford International
extension, work on which is expected to start in September 2006.

--
Paul Terry

North Woolwich branch to close
 

In message . com, Bob
Robinson writes

Has the Custom House to North Woolwich stretch not already
closed?

No, its running fine (or as fine as that bit of the NLL ever does).

http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/9 suggests the southern
part of the DLR route from North Woolwich to Canning Town will open on
the 16th December 2005 but there has been some press comment that this
might be earlier.

Again no, I'm afraid - the line will only open as far as London City
Airport. Construction onwards to North Woolwich (and on to Woolwich
Arsenal) has only just started and won't be finished until 2009. None of
this affects the North London Line.

The NLL closure that John mentioned is for the construction of the
Stratford International extension, running on the NLL alignment from
Canning Town northwards.
--
Paul Terry

North Woolwich branch to close
 

Bob Robinson wrote:
Has the Custom House to North Woolwich stretch not already
closed?http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/9 suggests the southern
part of the DLR route from North Woolwich to Canning Town will open on
the 16th December 2005 but there has been some press comment that this
might be earlier.


Strangely, the diagrams showing the full new branch appeared at DLR
stations a few weeks ago as if it was open. Now they seem to have had
stickers put over them showing the line as under construction.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message . com, Bob
Robinson writes

Has the Custom House to North Woolwich stretch not already
closed?

No, its running fine (or as fine as that bit of the NLL ever does).

http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/9 suggests the southern
part of the DLR route from North Woolwich to Canning Town will open on
the 16th December 2005 but there has been some press comment that this
might be earlier.

Again no, I'm afraid - the line will only open as far as London City
Airport. Construction onwards to North Woolwich (and on to Woolwich
Arsenal) has only just started and won't be finished until 2009. None of
this affects the North London Line.

The NLL closure that John mentioned is for the construction of the
Stratford International extension, running on the NLL alignment from
Canning Town northwards.

DLR should open to George V this year. When the NLL closes, passengers will
be able to travel between Stratford and Canning Town by LUL Jubilee Line;
between Canning Town and Custom House by DLR Beckton branch; and Canning
Town to London City Airport (near Silvertown station) and George V (near
North Woolwich) by the new DLR branch. Later the DLR will take over the NLL
tracks between Canning Town and Stratford, and extend to Stratford
International, and will provide additional stations between Canning Town and
Stratford. Finally, the stretch of the NLL from west of Custom House through
the Connaught Tunnel to east of Silvertown is intended to be incorporated
into Crossrail.

Peter

North Woolwich branch to close
 

In message , Peter
Masson writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

The NLL closure that John mentioned is for the construction of the
Stratford International extension, running on the NLL alignment from
Canning Town northwards.

DLR should open to George V this year.

Sorry - you are quite right that it will open through to George V, but
the original post referred to the closure next year of NL stations right
up to Stratford, and this is for the Stratford International station,
not for the George V line. As far as I know, the NLL will continue to
run to North Woolwich until September next year, even after the DLR to
George V has been opened.
--
Paul Terry

North Woolwich branch to close
 

Peter Masson wrote:
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
Stratford. Finally, the stretch of the NLL from west of Custom House through
the Connaught Tunnel to east of Silvertown is intended to be incorporated
into Crossrail.

In other words its going to lie derelict for years until it gets sold
off
cheap for new housing.

B2003

North Woolwich branch to close
 

Paul Harley wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 04:07:43, "John Rowland"
wrote:

I have been informed that notices have gone up on all North London Line
stations to tell people that the line between Stratford Low Level and North
Woolwich will close in September 2006. This is presumably when the new DLR
City Airport branch will open. The NLL will terminate at Stratford High
Level.

Out of interest, does it invite representations (i.e. objections)
regarding this closure, or is it simply an announcement that the
closure *will* happen?

As a general rule (although I haven't seen the posters concerned)
powers for a closure of an existing service to allow works for another
rail service to replace it will be contained within the Act or Order
for the new works. Tramlink's replacement of the Wimbledon to West
Croydon rail service is an example.

There will be no way of objecting to the closure proposal itself
(because if the Act or Order has been passed/made, then by definition
it is no longer a 'proposal'), but you can of course object during the
passage of the enabling Act or Order.

However, the DLR Stratford International extension hasn't yet has an
Order made to enable it - the consultation period for objections ends
on 12 October - so perhaps the poster is advising people that they have
until 12 October to write to the DfT about the DLR proposals.

If so, the poster probably states that if no objections are received
then services would be withdrawn in September 2006 - allowing around 3
years for conversion/construction of the DLR extension.

ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

wrote:

ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.

Ah, but wait until the DLR extension opens. Then Stratford will be the
_only_ station with DLR services on two levels! (I bet it confuses a
lot of pax, trying to get to Stratford International and getting on a
train to Canary Wharf instead, because that's the only DLR platform on
that level!)

North Woolwich branch to close
 

wrote

ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.

Will the NLL use these platforms, or will they be used for Lea Valley
trains, with the NLL being provided with new platforms?

The changes mean that another station will lose National Rail services on
two levels - West Ham only got platforms on the NLL in, IIRC, the 1980s, and
c2c platforms more recently than that, and now the NLL platforms will, as
with Stratford LL, be transferred to DLR. However, along the NLL, Highbury &
Islington and Willesden Junction will retain a bilevel existence.

Peter

North Woolwich branch to close
 

wrote

Ah, but wait until the DLR extension opens. Then Stratford will be the
_only_ station with DLR services on two levels! (I bet it confuses a
lot of pax, trying to get to Stratford International and getting on a
train to Canary Wharf instead, because that's the only DLR platform on
that level!)

What will the layout be at Canning Town - will the Stratford - Canning Town
DLR line use the existing low level NLL platforms, or will it be diverted up
into the existing DLR platforms?

The DLR is going to get a new 2-platform station at Stratford for the Poplar
line - though it will still be at the level of the GEML.

Peter

North Woolwich branch to close
 

wrote:
ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.

Ah, but wait until the DLR extension opens. Then Stratford will be the
_only_ station with DLR services on two levels! (I bet it confuses a
lot of pax, trying to get to Stratford International and getting on a
train to Canary Wharf instead, because that's the only DLR platform on
that level!)

I hadn't twigged that it would be a two-level DLR station! Although I
think the new platforms currently being built for the Stratford-Canary
Wharf-Lewisham route to replace platform 4 will be at about the same
level as the Jubilee/NLL/future DLR Int'l platforms, but not
immediately adjacent to them, so room for confusion.

It would certainly be a great help if DLR introduced route numbers or
reintroduced colour coding, as the system will be very complex once the
International extension opens.

When the original railway opened in 1987 Stratford-Island Gardens was
the blue route, and Tower Gateway-Island Gardens was the green route.
On the original motorised destination blinds (and the whirlybox things
that temporarily replaced them) the route colour was used as the
background. On the LCD displays the destination alternated with (e.g.)
'Red Route' every few seconds.

Sometime around or just after the opening of the Beckton extension (the
blue route) the colour coding was dropped - perhaps 1995? - and all
lines were then shown on route maps as the same hollow 'petrol blue'
colour you see on the Tube Map.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

Peter Masson wrote:
wrote

ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.

Will the NLL use these platforms, or will they be used for Lea Valley
trains, with the NLL being provided with new platforms?

A good question: I don't honestly know for certain. At one time there
was a proposal to send NLL trains on beyond Stratford to Walthamstow,
via a reinstated Hall Farm Curve and a new up-side bay at Walthamstow
Central. Obviously if that happens sometime in the future there should
be enough capacity with the existing pair of platforms at Stratford to
handle these and a couple of Lea Valley services per hour.

However, the Hall Farm Curve is certainly not going to happen in the
immediate future, so the NLL trains must terminate at Stratford.
Perhaps the Lea Valley services can use one platform, NLL another? Two
Lea Valley reversers per hour could be handled comfortably, but I'm not
sure about the four NLL services per hour - in theory it's possible,
but fairly tight.

There's no capacity to send NLL trains beyond Stratford up the Lea
Valley line - too many Stansted Expresses wandering around to allow
them to reverse at, for example, Tottenham Hale.

I suspect that some deal to reinstate Hall Farm Curve will come as part
of the Olympic package, reopening Lea Bridge station and possibly with
a new station near the stadium site. Waltham Forest Council is
certainly keen on it, and it would make sense for the post-Olympic
regeneration to open this route up again.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

wrote:

... When the original railway opened in 1987 Stratford-Island Gardens was
the blue route, ...

Brain fade, sorry, Stratford-Island Gardens was the RED route (before
that had another meaning!). Tower Gateway-Beckton became the BLUE route.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

On 7 Oct 2005 14:00:34 -0700, wrote:

wrote:
ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.

Ah, but wait until the DLR extension opens. Then Stratford will be the
_only_ station with DLR services on two levels! (I bet it confuses a
lot of pax, trying to get to Stratford International and getting on a
train to Canary Wharf instead, because that's the only DLR platform on
that level!)

I hadn't twigged that it would be a two-level DLR station! Although I
think the new platforms currently being built for the Stratford-Canary
Wharf-Lewisham route to replace platform 4 will be at about the same
level as the Jubilee/NLL/future DLR Int'l platforms, but not
immediately adjacent to them, so room for confusion.

The platforms will be at the same level as they are now - i.e. beside
the Central Line / National Rail lines. The deck is simply being
extended southwards over the w/b central line tunnel to allow the
construction of the extra platform track. It would be impossible to
lower the DLR Stratford Line to such an extent to bring it in at JLE /
NLL level. It would collide with the Central Line tunnel for one thing!
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

North Woolwich branch to close
 

wrote:


Although I
think the new platforms currently being built for the Stratford-Canary
Wharf-Lewisham route to replace platform 4 will be at about the same
level as the Jubilee/NLL/future DLR Int'l platforms, but not
immediately adjacent to them

Ok. I thought that they'd stay at the existing DLR/one/Central level.
But I don't remember where I got that idea, so I probably just assumed
it for no good reason.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

In message .com,
writes

Paul Harley wrote:
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 04:07:43, "John Rowland"
wrote:

I have been informed that notices have gone up on all North London Line
stations to tell people that the line between Stratford Low Level and North
Woolwich will close in September 2006. This is presumably when the new DLR
City Airport branch will open. The NLL will terminate at Stratford High
Level.

Out of interest, does it invite representations (i.e. objections)
regarding this closure, or is it simply an announcement that the
closure *will* happen?

As a general rule (although I haven't seen the posters concerned)
powers for a closure of an existing service to allow works for another
rail service to replace it will be contained within the Act or Order
for the new works. Tramlink's replacement of the Wimbledon to West
Croydon rail service is an example.

There will be no way of objecting to the closure proposal itself
(because if the Act or Order has been passed/made, then by definition
it is no longer a 'proposal'), but you can of course object during the
passage of the enabling Act or Order.

However, the DLR Stratford International extension hasn't yet has an
Order made to enable it - the consultation period for objections ends
on 12 October - so perhaps the poster is advising people that they have
until 12 October to write to the DfT about the DLR proposals.

If so, the poster probably states that if no objections are received
then services would be withdrawn in September 2006 - allowing around 3
years for conversion/construction of the DLR extension.

ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.

As there are two track beds although only one is in use why cant the
other be used by DLR without disrupting Silverlink who do a fabulous
job?
--
Clive

North Woolwich branch to close
 

Paul Corfield wrote:

The platforms will be at the same level as they are now - i.e. beside
the Central Line / National Rail lines. The deck is simply being
extended southwards over the w/b central line tunnel to allow the
construction of the extra platform track.

Interesting - the detailed layout plans on the DLR site show it a bit
differently. The DLR track will be realigned to around 20 metres south
of their current location, as double track, from a point around 150
metres west of the end of the current platform at Stratford.

The space above the current Central line WB tunnel entrance is not
touched in this plan, and the current DLR platform 4 and approach track
will be abandoned. There will be a completely new island platform south
of the Central line WB, not affecting the Central line's airspace.

There will then be a footbridge from where the current DLR ticket
machines are, up a staircase, over the Central line, then down two
ramps to the new DLR platforms level.

It would be impossible to lower the DLR Stratford Line to such an extent
to bring it in at JLE / NLL level. It would collide with the Central Line tunnel for one thing!

I think I understand the levels now! It looks like access to the new
DLR island platform will be from the west wall upper level of the main
concourse - the footbridge over the NLL - where there is currently a
lot of empty space.

Collision with the Central line tunnel is avoided because of the track
realignment and the new island platform being south of the current
location. At least that's what the drawing shows, so we shall see!

I think you're right that the level will still be higher than the
Jubilee/NLL, but detached from the existing High Level station.
Stratford gets more complicated!

Anyway, here's the link to the plan (rather large PDF):
http://developments.dlr.co.uk/enhanc...ayout_plan.PDF

Regards

North Woolwich branch to close
 

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:48:51 +0100, wrote:



Ah, but wait until the DLR extension opens. Then Stratford will be the
_only_ station with DLR services on two levels! (I bet it confuses a
lot of pax, trying to get to Stratford International and getting on a
train to Canary Wharf instead, because that's the only DLR platform on
that level!)


Ah, no it won't. Canning Town will also have DLR platforms at 2 levels.
Guessing which level to go to for the next train could be fun. Not!

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

North Woolwich branch to close
 

Peter Masson wrote:
wrote

ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.


Will the NLL use these platforms, or will they be used for Lea Valley
trains, with the NLL being provided with new platforms?

The changes mean that another station will lose National Rail services on
two levels - West Ham only got platforms on the NLL in, IIRC, the 1980s, and
c2c platforms more recently than that, and now the NLL platforms will, as
with Stratford LL, be transferred to DLR. However, along the NLL, Highbury &
Islington and Willesden Junction will retain a bilevel existence.

Peter



I believe the plan is for two new NLL platforms just to the north of
existing platforms 11 and 12, leaving these free for Lea Valley services
(sure to be increased when Stansted expands).

Regards,

Steve M

North Woolwich branch to close
 

wrote:
Peter Masson wrote:
wrote
ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.

Will the NLL use these platforms, or will they be used for Lea Valley
trains, with the NLL being provided with new platforms?

A good question: I don't honestly know for certain. At one time there
was a proposal to send NLL trains on beyond Stratford to Walthamstow,
via a reinstated Hall Farm Curve and a new up-side bay at Walthamstow
Central. Obviously if that happens sometime in the future there should
be enough capacity with the existing pair of platforms at Stratford to
handle these and a couple of Lea Valley services per hour.

However, the Hall Farm Curve is certainly not going to happen in the
immediate future, so the NLL trains must terminate at Stratford.
Perhaps the Lea Valley services can use one platform, NLL another? Two
Lea Valley reversers per hour could be handled comfortably, but I'm not
sure about the four NLL services per hour - in theory it's possible,
but fairly tight.

The NLL service is actually meant to be increasing to 6tph by 2012, so
there will be somewhat a greater problem.

There's no capacity to send NLL trains beyond Stratford up the Lea
Valley line - too many Stansted Expresses wandering around to allow
them to reverse at, for example, Tottenham Hale.

I suspect that some deal to reinstate Hall Farm Curve will come as part
of the Olympic package, reopening Lea Bridge station and possibly with
a new station near the stadium site. Waltham Forest Council is
certainly keen on it, and it would make sense for the post-Olympic
regeneration to open this route up again.



--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

North Woolwich branch to close
 

"Steve M" wrote in message
...
Peter Masson wrote:
wrote

ISTR that the NLL services will be switched to terminate at the High
Level platforms when the route south of Stratford closes - numbers
12/13(?) - which will mean one less of the few stations with mainline
services on two levels.


Will the NLL use these platforms, or will they be used for Lea Valley
trains, with the NLL being provided with new platforms?

The changes mean that another station will lose National Rail services
on
two levels - West Ham only got platforms on the NLL in, IIRC, the 1980s,
and
c2c platforms more recently than that, and now the NLL platforms will,
as
with Stratford LL, be transferred to DLR. However, along the NLL,
Highbury &
Islington and Willesden Junction will retain a bilevel existence.

Peter



I believe the plan is for two new NLL platforms just to the north of
existing platforms 11 and 12, leaving these free for Lea Valley services
(sure to be increased when Stansted expands).

Correct - trains will terminate at Low Level until these are constructed.

TM

North Woolwich branch to close
 

On 9/10/05 1:27 am, in article , "Dave Arquati"
wrote:

The NLL service is actually meant to be increasing to 6tph by 2012, so
there will be somewhat a greater problem.

And to think that it almost closed (to passengers) not so very long ago.
Even at the time of the Broad Street closure it was still very much a
backwater of the system.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

I think i bought a new pair of knackers there once.

North Woolwich branch to close
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
I think i bought a new pair of knackers there once.

Oh matron!

Ronnie