"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , asdf
writes
One would hope that such a safety critical feature is tested on a regular
basis, rather than it taking a SPAD for anyone to notice there is
something wrong.
They used to be tested on every trip both northbound and southbound, like
Leicester Sq. Is this no longer done?

A "tripcock tester" only tests that there is a tripcock arm present and in
correct alignment (at which point the tripcock tester light goes out). It
does NOT check that the tripcock will stop the train if activated, the
assumption being that if it is in the right place and alignment that it will
do the job it is provided for, if required.

In message , J Lynch
writes

One would hope that such a safety critical feature is tested on a regular
basis, rather than it taking a SPAD for anyone to notice there is
something wrong.
They used to be tested on every trip both northbound and southbound, like
Leicester Sq. Is this no longer done?

A "tripcock tester" only tests that there is a tripcock arm present and in
correct alignment (at which point the tripcock tester light goes out). It
does NOT check that the tripcock will stop the train if activated, the
assumption being that if it is in the right place and alignment that it will
do the job it is provided for, if required.

To add to that. The operation is also tested every night on train prep
in the depots. The problem in this case (as in a lot of safety issues)
is it only happens when a particular set of circumstances occurs. In
this case, when the train is tripped at slow speed, usually after the
driver has been authorised to pass the signal after a failure, the SCAT
(Speed Control after Tripping) doesn't kick in. Thus allowing the train
to resume normal line speed straight away, instead of after 3 minutes.

Whilst I can totally agree with sentiments that we drivers should be
doing our job properly, these measures have been brought into place over
the years due to accidents that have occurred and people killed because
of (often) a failure of the Mk 1 Human to do their job and are thus
there to protect the travelling public and make the railways the safe
environment that they are.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Boltar wrote:
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going
through red lights! Perhaps while they're fixing the trains they should
consider getting the drivers retrained. How exactly can you miss a red
light in a slow tube train usually (on the northern line) in a dark
tunnel?
They don't have to worry about other traffic , roadside distractions,
steering etc like a bus driver but if a bus driver went through a red
light
I don't think anyone would have much time for him blaming the bus for
not putting its brakes on!

B2003

Woh go there Boltar, I'm an Agitator, you'll be the first against the
wall when the revolution comes, we'll keep the red flag flying here........

In message .com,
writes
He seems to have made a perfectly valid comment that requires an
answer, I would certainly like to know the answer. On the one hand you
have these highly trained, safety critical £32000pa or is it £35000pa
drivers, who should be capable of stopping a train at a signal. Or are
they irresponsible idiots who require a safety device to stop them at a
signal so that they can concentrate on their ipod. Surely the purpose
of the tripcock wasn't as a safety device just to
save the embarrassment of negligent drivers.
Trains very a lot between themselves and also between empty and loaded,
have you never seen a train over run a platform? Trainstops are there
for your safety not someone's convenience
--
Clive

In message , J Lynch
writes
A "tripcock tester" only tests that there is a tripcock arm present and
in correct alignment (at which point the tripcock tester light goes
out). It does NOT check that the tripcock will stop the train if
activated, the assumption being that if it is in the right place and
alignment that it will do the job it is provided for, if required.
I appreciate that, it's a pity that tripcocks no longer dump the
trainline to atmosphere as they used to, at least that was fool proof.
--
Clive

And what if the red light on a signal fails? (Both filiments for those
in the know). In a dark tunnel where the signal head may be next to
invisible, those 'superfluous' trainstop/tripcock devices might be the
only thing between passengers and a second "Paddington/Ladbroke Grove".

"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , J Lynch
writes
A "tripcock tester" only tests that there is a tripcock arm present and in
correct alignment (at which point the tripcock tester light goes out). It
does NOT check that the tripcock will stop the train if activated, the
assumption being that if it is in the right place and alignment that it
will do the job it is provided for, if required.
I appreciate that, it's a pity that tripcocks no longer dump the trainline
to atmosphere as they used to, at least that was fool proof.
--
While Westcode fitted stock has no trainline supply, does this not still
apply to the Westinghouse stock still in service - i.e. surface stock
A60/62, C69/77 and 1972 tube stock?

Boltar...you been on holiday or, perish the thought, everything been going
as you liked for a while. I've missed your abrasive people hating comments
recently, welcome back.

Idiot admins at work now block all news forums.

Why hasn't it been picked up before? Probably because thetrip cock test
that has to be done by every train leaving a depot or terminus, so, many

Perhaps I'm the only person to whom it seems strange that its
taken 8 years to notice this problem. Unless the equipment
in question has been modified recently and a bad job was
done.

Thats where line knowledge comes in. If it wasn't for the profesionalism of
the drivers, or operators, trains would SPAD all the time. And we would have

Ah , I needed a good laugh tonight. Real professionals don't
walk out at the drop of a hat. You don't find doctors heading
off to a picket line as soon as they're unhappy with their
lot and god knows they've got good reason to with the NHS.
Sorry , but an LUL driver wouldn't know professionalism if
it kicked them in the nuts. Besides which , just how hard is
it to spot a red light?

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the contactor pay
for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in profits.....if

Well , the only people who thought privitisation was a good
idea was Gordon Brown and his cronies at the treasury.

B2003

Boltar wrote:
Boltar...you been on holiday or, perish the thought, everything
been going as you liked for a while. I've missed your abrasive
people hating comments recently, welcome back.

Idiot admins at work now block all news forums.

Good for them. You complain about the lack of professionalism of LU
drivers, yet expect to swan around at work accessing newsgroups.

Why hasn't it been picked up before? Probably because thetrip cock
test that has to be done by every train leaving a depot or
terminus, so, many

Perhaps I'm the only person to whom it seems strange that its
taken 8 years to notice this problem. Unless the equipment
in question has been modified recently and a bad job was
done.

LU have said that "maintenance of the Northern line train fleet was not
being done to the correct standards", so perhaps it's not just a design
issue.

Thats where line knowledge comes in. If it wasn't for the
profesionalism of the drivers, or operators, trains would SPAD all
the time. And we would have

Ah , I needed a good laugh tonight. Real professionals don't
walk out at the drop of a hat.

Hardly at the drop of a hat. This has been going on for weeks. Drivers
on NR have AWS and TPWS and in some cases ATP. LU drivers (except
Victoria and Central Lines with ATO) have just trainstops, and if that
doesn't work, there is no secondary protection system. I know you think
that red signals alone should be sufficient, but experience worldwide
indiactes that your view is foolishly complacent.

I'm not normally on the side of RMT and ASLEF, and one might argue that
double manning would have been sufficient, but I have some sympathy with
their view that temporary workarounds should not continue indefinitely.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In article .com,
() wrote:


Clive wrote:
In message .com,
Boltar writes
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures
is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going through red
lights! Perhaps while they're fixing the trains they should consider
getting the drivers retrained. How exactly can you miss a red light
in
a slow tube train usually (on the northern line) in a dark tunnel?
They
don't have to worry about other traffic , roadside distractions,
steering etc like a bus driver but if a bus driver went through a red
light I don't think anyone would have much time for him blaming the
bus
for not putting its brakes on!
Perhaps if you tried driving a tube train instead of pontificating
like
Conor, you'd be wiser, and have no need to say anything.
--
Clive
He seems to have made a perfectly valid comment that requires an
answer, I would certainly like to know the answer. On the one hand you
have these highly trained, safety critical £32000pa or is it £35000pa
drivers, who should be capable of stopping a train at a signal. Or are
they irresponsible idiots who require a safety device to stop them at a
signal so that they can concentrate on their ipod.
Surely the purpose of the tripcock wasn't as a safety device just to
save the embarrassment of negligent drivers.
Kevin




The "going through red lights bit" is all ******** that the media have
been spreading - I read it on the BBC website yesterday.

The initial failure was after a train deliberately passed a red signal
when applying the rule due to signal failure. Subsequent failures were
noticed when the trains passed a fixed trainstop and didn't get tripped.

The fixed trainstops were specially fitted on the approach to all termini
so that trains got tripped at least once per trip as a means of tripping
the trains in an effort to check for any other failures (even the
defective ones were being tripped most of the times). Those at Edgware
High Barnet and Morden were removed after a few days, leaving the one in
place on the Mill Hill branch and the one in place in the Kennington loop.
The fifth one that failed was on the Mill Hill branch on Wednesday.


Roger