Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going
through red lights! Perhaps while they're fixing the trains they should
consider getting the drivers retrained. How exactly can you miss a red
light in a slow tube train usually (on the northern line) in a dark
tunnel?
They don't have to worry about other traffic , roadside distractions,
steering etc like a bus driver but if a bus driver went through a red
light
I don't think anyone would have much time for him blaming the bus for
not putting its brakes on!

B2003

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Boltar wrote:
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going
through red lights!

Perhaps the reason it hasn't been noticed is that your assumption is
false. The fault is said to occur when trains are driven through a red
light very slowly, as happens for example in the case of a track circuit
or signal failure where a driver is given permission to do so. The
procedure is to go forwards slowly, get tripped, reset the tripcock and
proceed at slow speed to the next signal or for 3 minutes, or something
(I forget the details). It's been found that in these circumstances,
the tripcock can reset itself without stopping the train.

If you have up-to-date info on the number of SPADs on LU, please quote
numbers and source.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Boltar...you been on holiday or, perish the thought, everything been going
as you liked for a while. I've missed your abrasive people hating comments
recently, welcome back.

The reason so many have been highlighted recently is......... They have been
testing them. Hence every train tested means a number of failures hence the
situation we are in. Its got nothing to do with them all SPADing.
Why hasn't it been picked up before? Probably because the trip cock test
that has to be done by every train leaving a depot or terminus, so, many
times a day. It is a test to ensure the arm is not missing or out of
alignment with the train stop at the signal. It doesn't operate the trip
cock. If it did the arm would miss a train stop thereby rendering the train
capable of going past a red. In these cases the arm is correctly aligned, it
just doesnt open the valve. So the normal trip cock test works fine.
Also, judging a red in the dark with no referance points isn't that easy.
Thats where line knowledge comes in. If it wasn't for the profesionalism of
the drivers, or operators, trains would SPAD all the time. And we would have
found the tripcock problem years ago......

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the contactor pay
for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in profits.....if they get
found to be contributing to the delay at all. I have no idea how the system
works....perhaps other do and could enlighten us.

Mal

"Richard J." wrote in message
.uk...
Boltar wrote:
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going
through red lights!

Perhaps the reason it hasn't been noticed is that your assumption is
false. The fault is said to occur when trains are driven through a red
light very slowly, as happens for example in the case of a track circuit
or signal failure where a driver is given permission to do so. The
procedure is to go forwards slowly, get tripped, reset the tripcock and
proceed at slow speed to the next signal or for 3 minutes, or something
(I forget the details). It's been found that in these circumstances,
the tripcock can reset itself without stopping the train.

If you have up-to-date info on the number of SPADs on LU, please quote
numbers and source.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In article ,
(Mal) wrote:

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the contactor
pay for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in profits.....if
they get found to be contributing to the delay at all. I have no idea
how the system works....perhaps other do and could enlighten us.

It's contractors plural isn't it? Don't Alstom provide and maintain
these trains for LU on the never-never?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Mal) wrote:

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the
contactor pay for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in
profits.....if they get found to be contributing to the delay at
all. I have no idea how the system works....perhaps other do and
could enlighten us.

It's contractors plural isn't it? Don't Alstom provide and maintain
these trains for LU on the never-never?

It's my understanding that the original Alstom contract was passed to
Tube Lines, who now have Alstom as their subcontractor.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In message .com,
Boltar writes
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock failures
is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going through red
lights! Perhaps while they're fixing the trains they should consider
getting the drivers retrained. How exactly can you miss a red light in
a slow tube train usually (on the northern line) in a dark tunnel? They
don't have to worry about other traffic , roadside distractions,
steering etc like a bus driver but if a bus driver went through a red
light I don't think anyone would have much time for him blaming the bus
for not putting its brakes on!
Perhaps if you tried driving a tube train instead of pontificating like
Conor, you'd be wiser, and have no need to say anything.
--
Clive

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

On 13 Oct 2005 14:52:37 -0700, "Boltar"
wrote:

Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going
through red lights!

One would hope that such a safety critical feature is tested on a
regular basis, rather than it taking a SPAD for anyone to notice there
is something wrong.

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(Mal) wrote:

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the
contactor pay for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in
profits.....if they get found to be contributing to the delay at
all. I have no idea how the system works....perhaps other do and
could enlighten us.

It's contractors plural isn't it? Don't Alstom provide and maintain
these trains for LU on the never-never?

It's my understanding that the original Alstom contract was passed to
Tube Lines, who now have Alstom as their subcontractor.

That figures with something in an LU press release mentioning both.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In message , asdf
writes
One would hope that such a safety critical feature is tested on a
regular basis, rather than it taking a SPAD for anyone to notice there
is something wrong.
They used to be tested on every trip both northbound and southbound,
like Leicester Sq. Is this no longer done?
--
Clive

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Clive wrote:
In message .com,
Boltar writes
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock failures
is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going through red
lights! Perhaps while they're fixing the trains they should consider
getting the drivers retrained. How exactly can you miss a red light in
a slow tube train usually (on the northern line) in a dark tunnel? They
don't have to worry about other traffic , roadside distractions,
steering etc like a bus driver but if a bus driver went through a red
light I don't think anyone would have much time for him blaming the bus
for not putting its brakes on!
Perhaps if you tried driving a tube train instead of pontificating like
Conor, you'd be wiser, and have no need to say anything.
--
Clive
He seems to have made a perfectly valid comment that requires an
answer, I would certainly like to know the answer. On the one hand you
have these highly trained, safety critical £32000pa or is it £35000pa
drivers, who should be capable of stopping a train at a signal. Or are
they irresponsible idiots who require a safety device to stop them at a
signal so that they can concentrate on their ipod.
Surely the purpose of the tripcock wasn't as a safety device just to
save the embarrassment of negligent drivers.
Kevin

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , asdf
writes
One would hope that such a safety critical feature is tested on a regular
basis, rather than it taking a SPAD for anyone to notice there is
something wrong.
They used to be tested on every trip both northbound and southbound, like
Leicester Sq. Is this no longer done?

A "tripcock tester" only tests that there is a tripcock arm present and in
correct alignment (at which point the tripcock tester light goes out). It
does NOT check that the tripcock will stop the train if activated, the
assumption being that if it is in the right place and alignment that it will
do the job it is provided for, if required.

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In message , J Lynch
writes

One would hope that such a safety critical feature is tested on a regular
basis, rather than it taking a SPAD for anyone to notice there is
something wrong.
They used to be tested on every trip both northbound and southbound, like
Leicester Sq. Is this no longer done?

A "tripcock tester" only tests that there is a tripcock arm present and in
correct alignment (at which point the tripcock tester light goes out). It
does NOT check that the tripcock will stop the train if activated, the
assumption being that if it is in the right place and alignment that it will
do the job it is provided for, if required.

To add to that. The operation is also tested every night on train prep
in the depots. The problem in this case (as in a lot of safety issues)
is it only happens when a particular set of circumstances occurs. In
this case, when the train is tripped at slow speed, usually after the
driver has been authorised to pass the signal after a failure, the SCAT
(Speed Control after Tripping) doesn't kick in. Thus allowing the train
to resume normal line speed straight away, instead of after 3 minutes.

Whilst I can totally agree with sentiments that we drivers should be
doing our job properly, these measures have been brought into place over
the years due to accidents that have occurred and people killed because
of (often) a failure of the Mk 1 Human to do their job and are thus
there to protect the travelling public and make the railways the safe
environment that they are.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Boltar wrote:
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going
through red lights! Perhaps while they're fixing the trains they should
consider getting the drivers retrained. How exactly can you miss a red
light in a slow tube train usually (on the northern line) in a dark
tunnel?
They don't have to worry about other traffic , roadside distractions,
steering etc like a bus driver but if a bus driver went through a red
light
I don't think anyone would have much time for him blaming the bus for
not putting its brakes on!

B2003

Woh go there Boltar, I'm an Agitator, you'll be the first against the
wall when the revolution comes, we'll keep the red flag flying here........

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In message .com,
writes
He seems to have made a perfectly valid comment that requires an
answer, I would certainly like to know the answer. On the one hand you
have these highly trained, safety critical £32000pa or is it £35000pa
drivers, who should be capable of stopping a train at a signal. Or are
they irresponsible idiots who require a safety device to stop them at a
signal so that they can concentrate on their ipod. Surely the purpose
of the tripcock wasn't as a safety device just to
save the embarrassment of negligent drivers.
Trains very a lot between themselves and also between empty and loaded,
have you never seen a train over run a platform? Trainstops are there
for your safety not someone's convenience
--
Clive

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In message , J Lynch
writes
A "tripcock tester" only tests that there is a tripcock arm present and
in correct alignment (at which point the tripcock tester light goes
out). It does NOT check that the tripcock will stop the train if
activated, the assumption being that if it is in the right place and
alignment that it will do the job it is provided for, if required.
I appreciate that, it's a pity that tripcocks no longer dump the
trainline to atmosphere as they used to, at least that was fool proof.
--
Clive

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

And what if the red light on a signal fails? (Both filiments for those
in the know). In a dark tunnel where the signal head may be next to
invisible, those 'superfluous' trainstop/tripcock devices might be the
only thing between passengers and a second "Paddington/Ladbroke Grove".

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , J Lynch
writes
A "tripcock tester" only tests that there is a tripcock arm present and in
correct alignment (at which point the tripcock tester light goes out). It
does NOT check that the tripcock will stop the train if activated, the
assumption being that if it is in the right place and alignment that it
will do the job it is provided for, if required.
I appreciate that, it's a pity that tripcocks no longer dump the trainline
to atmosphere as they used to, at least that was fool proof.
--
While Westcode fitted stock has no trainline supply, does this not still
apply to the Westinghouse stock still in service - i.e. surface stock
A60/62, C69/77 and 1972 tube stock?

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Boltar...you been on holiday or, perish the thought, everything been going
as you liked for a while. I've missed your abrasive people hating comments
recently, welcome back.

Idiot admins at work now block all news forums.

Why hasn't it been picked up before? Probably because thetrip cock test
that has to be done by every train leaving a depot or terminus, so, many

Perhaps I'm the only person to whom it seems strange that its
taken 8 years to notice this problem. Unless the equipment
in question has been modified recently and a bad job was
done.

Thats where line knowledge comes in. If it wasn't for the profesionalism of
the drivers, or operators, trains would SPAD all the time. And we would have

Ah , I needed a good laugh tonight. Real professionals don't
walk out at the drop of a hat. You don't find doctors heading
off to a picket line as soon as they're unhappy with their
lot and god knows they've got good reason to with the NHS.
Sorry , but an LUL driver wouldn't know professionalism if
it kicked them in the nuts. Besides which , just how hard is
it to spot a red light?

The qustion Boltar you should be asking is how much will the contactor pay
for the disruption. Will it make a huge dent in profits.....if

Well , the only people who thought privitisation was a good
idea was Gordon Brown and his cronies at the treasury.

B2003

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Boltar wrote:
Boltar...you been on holiday or, perish the thought, everything
been going as you liked for a while. I've missed your abrasive
people hating comments recently, welcome back.

Idiot admins at work now block all news forums.

Good for them. You complain about the lack of professionalism of LU
drivers, yet expect to swan around at work accessing newsgroups.

Why hasn't it been picked up before? Probably because thetrip cock
test that has to be done by every train leaving a depot or
terminus, so, many

Perhaps I'm the only person to whom it seems strange that its
taken 8 years to notice this problem. Unless the equipment
in question has been modified recently and a bad job was
done.

LU have said that "maintenance of the Northern line train fleet was not
being done to the correct standards", so perhaps it's not just a design
issue.

Thats where line knowledge comes in. If it wasn't for the
profesionalism of the drivers, or operators, trains would SPAD all
the time. And we would have

Ah , I needed a good laugh tonight. Real professionals don't
walk out at the drop of a hat.

Hardly at the drop of a hat. This has been going on for weeks. Drivers
on NR have AWS and TPWS and in some cases ATP. LU drivers (except
Victoria and Central Lines with ATO) have just trainstops, and if that
doesn't work, there is no secondary protection system. I know you think
that red signals alone should be sufficient, but experience worldwide
indiactes that your view is foolishly complacent.

I'm not normally on the side of RMT and ASLEF, and one might argue that
double manning would have been sufficient, but I have some sympathy with
their view that temporary workarounds should not continue indefinitely.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In article .com,
() wrote:


Clive wrote:
In message .com,
Boltar writes
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures
is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going through red
lights! Perhaps while they're fixing the trains they should consider
getting the drivers retrained. How exactly can you miss a red light
in
a slow tube train usually (on the northern line) in a dark tunnel?
They
don't have to worry about other traffic , roadside distractions,
steering etc like a bus driver but if a bus driver went through a red
light I don't think anyone would have much time for him blaming the
bus
for not putting its brakes on!
Perhaps if you tried driving a tube train instead of pontificating
like
Conor, you'd be wiser, and have no need to say anything.
--
Clive
He seems to have made a perfectly valid comment that requires an
answer, I would certainly like to know the answer. On the one hand you
have these highly trained, safety critical £32000pa or is it £35000pa
drivers, who should be capable of stopping a train at a signal. Or are
they irresponsible idiots who require a safety device to stop them at a
signal so that they can concentrate on their ipod.
Surely the purpose of the tripcock wasn't as a safety device just to
save the embarrassment of negligent drivers.
Kevin




The "going through red lights bit" is all ******** that the media have
been spreading - I read it on the BBC website yesterday.

The initial failure was after a train deliberately passed a red signal
when applying the rule due to signal failure. Subsequent failures were
noticed when the trains passed a fixed trainstop and didn't get tripped.

The fixed trainstops were specially fitted on the approach to all termini
so that trains got tripped at least once per trip as a means of tripping
the trains in an effort to check for any other failures (even the
defective ones were being tripped most of the times). Those at Edgware
High Barnet and Morden were removed after a few days, leaving the one in
place on the Mill Hill branch and the one in place in the Kennington loop.
The fifth one that failed was on the Mill Hill branch on Wednesday.


Roger

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In message ,
writes
Clive wrote:
In message .com,
Boltar writes
Something no one in the media or on here seems to have mentioned is
that the only reason the drivers are noticing so many tripcock
failures
is that so many of these overpaid agitators are going through red
lights! Perhaps while they're fixing the trains they should consider
getting the drivers retrained. How exactly can you miss a red light
in
a slow tube train usually (on the northern line) in a dark tunnel?
They
don't have to worry about other traffic , roadside distractions,
steering etc like a bus driver but if a bus driver went through a red
light I don't think anyone would have much time for him blaming the
bus
for not putting its brakes on!
Perhaps if you tried driving a tube train instead of pontificating
like
Conor, you'd be wiser, and have no need to say anything.
--
Clive
He seems to have made a perfectly valid comment that requires an
answer, I would certainly like to know the answer. On the one hand you
have these highly trained, safety critical £32000pa or is it £35000pa
drivers, who should be capable of stopping a train at a signal. Or are
they irresponsible idiots who require a safety device to stop them at a
signal so that they can concentrate on their ipod.
Surely the purpose of the tripcock wasn't as a safety device just to
save the embarrassment of negligent drivers.
Kevin


Clive didn't write any of the forgoing. As a former driver on the
tube, these men/women have my sympathy for the knowledge and accuracy
with which trains on the tube are driven and it bortlicks or conorubish
tried it, they'd find it a lot more demanding than driving an oversize
car called a truck with forward control which makes it easier than a car
to handle.
--
Clive

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:22:53 +0100, Clive
wrote:

Trains very a lot between themselves and also between empty and loaded,
have you never seen a train over run a platform? Trainstops are there
for your safety not someone's convenience

So do busses. Maybe there should be a trip at each bus stop in case
the driver forgets a full bus needs more braking than an empty one?

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:22:53 +0100, Clive
wrote:

Trains very a lot between themselves and also between empty and
loaded, have you never seen a train over run a platform?
Trainstops are there for your safety not someone's convenience

So do busses. Maybe there should be a trip at each bus stop in case
the driver forgets a full bus needs more braking than an empty one?

If there was an organisation for the roads similar to the Railway
Inspectorate then it's entirely possible that there would be a better safety
regime.

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 01:26:09 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote:

So do busses. Maybe there should be a trip at each bus stop in case
the driver forgets a full bus needs more braking than an empty one?

To add to Brimstone's comments, in some cases the worst thing you
could do with a road vehicle is to jam all the brakes on. That could
lead to loss of control or another collision. That's probably one
reason why road vehicles don't tend[1] to have emergency braking of
that type, as I'm certain the technology exists to implement it.

Of course, as he posted, if there was a Roads Inspectorate with the
same type of powers, road vehicles would probably be banned :)

[1] I'm told by Conor on uk.t (or uk.rec.driving, one or t'other) that
lorries do have that capability if there is a disconnect between the
brakes of the trailer and tractor unit. This is probably fair enough,
as braking is probably better than no braking capability whatsoever,
but it isn't necessarily the case that the best way to deal with a
road "SPAD" is to emergency brake - sometimes accelerating out of the
problem is safer.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 10:08:07 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

To add to Brimstone's comments, in some cases the worst thing you
could do with a road vehicle is to jam all the brakes on. That could
lead to loss of control or another collision. That's probably one
reason why road vehicles don't tend[1] to have emergency braking of
that type, as I'm certain the technology exists to implement it.

Road vehicles have anti-lock braking systems, presumably an emergency
stop would be implemented using it.

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In message , Laurence Payne
writes
Road vehicles have anti-lock braking systems, presumably an emergency
stop would be implemented using it.
The tube trains I used to drive had mercury retarders to stop wheel
slip, I would imagine modern trains have similar equipment to prevent
flats on their tyres.
--
Clive

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:06:18 GMT, "Richard J."
said:

If you have up-to-date info on the number of SPADs on LU, please quote
numbers and source.

While arguing about the Northern line on IRC, I found this ...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/using/use...ical/spads.asp

which eventually leads to ...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/company/perfor...te/default.asp

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:06:18 GMT, "Richard J."
said:

If you have up-to-date info on the number of SPADs on LU, please
quote numbers and source.

While arguing about the Northern line on IRC, I found this ...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/using/use...ical/spads.asp

which eventually leads to ...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/company/perfor...te/default.asp

But the SPADs chart only goes up to Period 9 of 2003/04, according to
the dates on the horizontal axis, which is why I asked for *up-to-date*
info.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

So do busses. Maybe there should be a trip at each bus stop in case
the driver forgets a full bus needs more braking than an empty one?

Sadly that does appear to be the case! Passengers regularly get thrown
about by some of the drivers on the No. 63 route as they regularly fail
to notice the subtle differences between nearly empty and fully loaded.

The newer buses are worse, as I presume they've got more power and
better brakes. But, I'd have thought the drivers (and you see the same
faces day in day out) would have compensated for this.

Is it easy to become a driver these days? Six years ago a friend tried
to become a driver at Wood Green, and he seemed to be the ideal
candidate, but he failed the test. I wonder if he would have still done
so today?

Jonathan

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Yes
Accelerometers measure "G's" and retard the braking to provide a smooth stop
under normal service brake conditions.




"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Laurence Payne
writes
Road vehicles have anti-lock braking systems, presumably an emergency stop
would be implemented using it.
The tube trains I used to drive had mercury retarders to stop wheel slip,
I would imagine modern trains have similar equipment to prevent flats on
their tyres.
--
Clive

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Richard J. wrote:
Boltar wrote:
Idiot admins at work now block all news forums.

Good for them. You complain about the lack of professionalism of LU
drivers, yet expect to swan around at work accessing newsgroups.

Actually , my "swanning around" on newsgroups is 90% work given I work
in IT. And don't bother looking for this id , I usually use a different
one
when posting to work related newsgroups.

LU have said that "maintenance of the Northern line train fleet was not
being done to the correct standards", so perhaps it's not just a design
issue.

Perhaps LU should have their own people inspecting the work instead
of relying on a profit first organisation not to cut corners.

Ah , I needed a good laugh tonight. Real professionals don't
walk out at the drop of a hat.

Hardly at the drop of a hat. This has been going on for weeks. Drivers

Oh please. Want a payrise? Strike. Want some tosser who's been playing
squash when on sick leave back in? Strike. Don't like new working
hours?
Strike. Don't like the mess facilities? Strike. Thats not the behaviour
of professionals , its the behaviour of a bunch of militant feckless
******s.

on NR have AWS and TPWS and in some cases ATP. LU drivers (except
Victoria and Central Lines with ATO) have just trainstops, and if that
doesn't work, there is no secondary protection system. I know you think
that red signals alone should be sufficient, but experience worldwide
indiactes that your view is foolishly complacent.

Funny , since red lights are the only thing many intercity and multi
thousand ton freight trains rely on. And the former go a damn site
faster than the pootling 30mph tube trains manage. Having said that ,
tripcocks are obviously good idea , but then an even better idea is
drivers not going through red lights in the first place. I can spot
a red light half a mile ahead on a dual carraigeway in ****ing rain
on a road I don't even know. I fail to see how hard it can be to see
one
on a railway track the drivers learnt the route rote while doing 30mph
or
less!

B2003

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

You can always tell who the ignorant dicks are, on discussions about
railway operations, because they call signals showing a danger aspect
"red lights", as if they are traffic lights. Do they think trains weigh
1 to 40 tons and have rubber tyres rolling on asphalt?

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In message . com,
writes

You can always tell who the ignorant dicks are, on discussions about
railway operations, because they call signals showing a danger aspect
"red lights", as if they are traffic lights. Do they think trains weigh
1 to 40 tons and have rubber tyres rolling on asphalt?

Although heavier than 40 tonnes some trains do run on rubber tyres on
concrete in at least parts of France and Canada.
--
Clive

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

You can always tell who the ignorant dicks are, on discussions about
railway operations, because they call signals showing a danger aspect
"red lights", as if they are traffic lights. Do they think trains weigh
1 to 40 tons and have rubber tyres rolling on asphalt?

Oh I'm sorry , "danger aspect" then if you prefer your
euphamisms. Does that mean it isn't red and you're not
supposed to stop at it as per a road signal? Would explain the
SPADs I suppose wouldn't it. Also FYI , a tube train can
stop in a platform length or less at line speed. Thats about
300 feet or so. Ask a truck driver how far a 40 ton rig takes to
stop from 60 mph on a wet road during an emergency stop.

Incidentaly , why are you calling it a railway , shouldn't
that be saying "permanent way"?

B2003

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

You can always tell who the ignorant dicks are, on discussions about
railway operations, because they call signals showing a danger aspect
"red lights", as if they are traffic lights. Do they think trains weigh
1 to 40 tons and have rubber tyres rolling on asphalt?

Oh I'm sorry , "danger aspect" then if you prefer your
euphamisms. Does that mean it isn't red and you're not
supposed to stop at it as per a road signal? Would explain the
SPADs I suppose wouldn't it. Also FYI , a tube train can
stop in a platform length or less at line speed. Thats about
300 feet or so. Ask a truck driver how far a 40 ton rig takes to
stop from 60 mph on a wet road during an emergency stop.

Incidentaly , why are you calling it a railway , shouldn't
you be saying "permanent way"?

B2003

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

On 23 Oct 2005 05:35:59 -0700, wrote:


You can always tell who the ignorant dicks are, on discussions about
railway operations, because they call signals showing a danger aspect
"red lights", as if they are traffic lights. Do they think trains weigh
1 to 40 tons and have rubber tyres rolling on asphalt?

How idiotic.

I'm sure you use the exact technical term for everything, and never
use lay language.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Boltar.... you have a stutter.

Mal

"Boltar" wrote in message
oups.com...
You can always tell who the ignorant dicks are, on discussions about
railway operations, because they call signals showing a danger aspect
"red lights", as if they are traffic lights. Do they think trains weigh
1 to 40 tons and have rubber tyres rolling on asphalt?

Oh I'm sorry , "danger aspect" then if you prefer your
euphamisms. Does that mean it isn't red and you're not
supposed to stop at it as per a road signal? Would explain the
SPADs I suppose wouldn't it. Also FYI , a tube train can
stop in a platform length or less at line speed. Thats about
300 feet or so. Ask a truck driver how far a 40 ton rig takes to
stop from 60 mph on a wet road during an emergency stop.

Incidentaly , why are you calling it a railway , shouldn't
you be saying "permanent way"?

B2003

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

Boltar wrote:
You can always tell who the ignorant dicks are, on discussions about
railway operations, because they call signals showing a danger aspect
"red lights", as if they are traffic lights. Do they think trains weigh
1 to 40 tons and have rubber tyres rolling on asphalt?


Oh I'm sorry , "danger aspect" then if you prefer your
euphamisms. Does that mean it isn't red and you're not
supposed to stop at it as per a road signal? Would explain the
SPADs I suppose wouldn't it. Also FYI , a tube train can
stop in a platform length or less at line speed. Thats about
300 feet or so. Ask a truck driver how far a 40 ton rig takes to
stop from 60 mph on a wet road during an emergency stop.

Incidentaly , why are you calling it a railway , shouldn't
that be saying "permanent way"?

B2003

A tube train cannot stop from line speed in the length of a platform,
I've tried it, about 2 cars through!

Northern line trip failures = lots of SPADs
 

In message , www.waspies.net
writes
A tube train cannot stop from line speed in the length of a platform,
I've tried it, about 2 cars through!
It all depends, a southbound Northern line train running into Hampstead
or Archway flat out with a full load may run a car or two over. A
Central line train empty approaching Leytonstone from the city will stop
half way down the platform.
--
Clive