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New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On 2 Nov 2005 02:21:43 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote: When is 7DTC capping coming in on Oyster? Probably never, the complexities, such as ODTC capping day by day, were glanced at in a post on this NG. I'm not impressed by the "the computers aren't up to it" argument. But I agree, it probably won't happen. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 23:26:46 +0100, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote: Ask someone (nicely) at any open Tube Ticket Office. What do you get? A printout with just A-B for a specific journey, or a full time/station listing for every journey? The latter. Self printed from the web site or by an employee at a station (where-ever)? We've told you. See the top quote in this message. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes Or people arriving at airports who can't buy through tickets to NSE destinations. I can buy a ticket from Cambridge to Heathrow but not from Heathrow to Cambridge. That's odd. I *can* buy a ticket from Heathrow to Luton, but cannot get a discount with my NSE Network Card on it, so do so only if travelling at a time when the discount wouldn't apply. I assumed this was possible to all NSE stations, but obviously not. -- Clive Page |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
In message , Clive
writes I don't understand the problem. I live 350 miles from London yet my five or six trips a year there make oyster a good proposition, no queuing, lower fares and capping. Then again I don't mind that someone in TfL takes an interest in my London based movements to improve services, it can only benefit me. I've nothing to hide either, my card is registered to me at my home address, so if I am robbed of it or lose it whilst in London I can get a refund. So I am happy to keep up to £90 on it in pre-pay, then I'm never caught out. I live only 30 miles from London and make a trip every week or two, but have not so far been tempted by Oyster. I see two main problems (1) I don't like the idea of having to register my details, so that every journey I take is known to TFL. That smacks just a bit to much like big brother for my liking. If I use an unregistered card and lose it then I lose all the stored value (as I understand it). (2) I've seen far too many stories of people finding unresolved journeys for a whole variety of reasons, and then it takes them a huge amount of time to get the excess charge refunded. I often transfer from mainline rail (which doesn't use Oyster) to tube at places like Kings Cross Thameslink, Farringdon, Moorgate, or Blackfriars where it is hard (or impossible) to find an Oyster machine to touch in to, so I expect that using one will be a frequent waste of time and maybe money. All the same, now that Carnet tickets are to disappear, as soon as our current stocks are exhausted (maybe late next year) I may be forced to indulge in an Oyster of some sort. Any comments? -- Clive Page |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
In message , Helen Deborah
Vecht writes I think there *is* a potential problem for ill-informed visitors, especially if they don't read English. I think there's a problem for all visitors, because they won't easily be able to use all the stored value (or get their deposit back). My wife and I between us have at least half-a-dozen strippenkarts or metro cards or similar for Washington DC and various European cities, each with a bit of residual value. When next we visit it isn't at all clear whether they are still valid, or whether we can top-up or not. In one city I visited recently I was told that my old strip card was still valid but only at the rate of two old strips to one new strip. Inadvertently I had underpaid for a journey before I realised that - fortunately no metro inspector caught me. I understand enough of French and German to just about get the hang of their metro ticketing rules, but all the same it's a real problem. In places, like Poland or Hungary, where I don't understand the language at all, it's a serious problem. No doubt for some visitors to London the same is true. - the rules vary so much from one town to another, and are almost as byzantine in their complexity as those of London, that it's vary hard to remember them. - I keep getting stored value left which I can't use after my trip is over. The Oyster card brings London into line with these other tourist-unfriendly transport systems. This doesn't seem to me to be much of an advance. -- Clive Page |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
"Clive Page" wrote in message ... In message , Helen Deborah Vecht writes I think there *is* a potential problem for ill-informed visitors, especially if they don't read English. I think there's a problem for all visitors, because they won't easily be able to use all the stored value (or get their deposit back). My wife and I between us have at least half-a-dozen strippenkarts or metro cards or similar for Washington DC and various European cities, each with a bit of residual value. When next we visit it isn't at all clear whether they are still valid, or whether we can top-up or not. Can I just suggest that it is silly to buy strip cards in the first place if you are unceratin that you are going to use them. In many European towns the strip card discount is no more than 10%. Risking wasting 50% of a strip ticket to save 10% just doesn't seem very sensible. Buy single tickets, or if you want to make multiple journeys a day pass, and if it costs you 10% more, so what? tim |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 12:32:20 +0000, Laurence Payne
wrote: On 2 Nov 2005 02:21:43 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote: When is 7DTC capping coming in on Oyster? Probably never, the complexities, such as ODTC capping day by day, were glanced at in a post on this NG. I'm not impressed by the "the computers aren't up to it" argument. But I agree, it probably won't happen. It would make more sense to have an equivalent that works better with Pre-Pay. For example, a discount could be offered to those loading their card with a specific amount of money, perhaps in several "bands". Neil -- Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK When replying please use neil at the above domain 'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 10:53:41 +0000, Clive Page
wrote: In message , Clive writes I don't understand the problem. I live 350 miles from London yet my five or six trips a year there make oyster a good proposition, no queuing, lower fares and capping. Then again I don't mind that someone in TfL takes an interest in my London based movements to improve services, it can only benefit me. I've nothing to hide either, my card is registered to me at my home address, so if I am robbed of it or lose it whilst in London I can get a refund. So I am happy to keep up to £90 on it in pre-pay, then I'm never caught out. I live only 30 miles from London and make a trip every week or two, but have not so far been tempted by Oyster. I see two main problems (1) I don't like the idea of having to register my details, so that every journey I take is known to TFL. That smacks just a bit to much like big brother for my liking. If I use an unregistered card and lose it then I lose all the stored value (as I understand it). (2) I've seen far too many stories of people finding unresolved journeys for a whole variety of reasons, and then it takes them a huge amount of time to get the excess charge refunded. I often transfer from mainline rail (which doesn't use Oyster) to tube at places like Kings Cross Thameslink, Farringdon, Moorgate, or Blackfriars where it is hard (or impossible) to find an Oyster machine to touch in to, so I expect that using one will be a frequent waste of time and maybe money. All the same, now that Carnet tickets are to disappear, as soon as our current stocks are exhausted (maybe late next year) I may be forced to indulge in an Oyster of some sort. Any comments? Yes. (1) You're paranoid. (2) I've never found a problem finding an Oyster target at any of those stations. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
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New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 10:53:41 +0000, Clive Page
wrote: (1) I don't like the idea of having to register my details, so that every journey I take is known to TFL. That smacks just a bit to much like big brother for my liking. If I use an unregistered card and lose it then I lose all the stored value (as I understand it). So don't lose it. Just keep it in your wallet (it's credit card sized) along with your banknotes - they are also unregistered and if you lose them you lose all their value, but I'm sure you manage to cope. There's no real need to keep more than £10 or so of value on the card (despite some posters managing to reach the £90 limit!). (2) I've seen far too many stories of people finding unresolved journeys for a whole variety of reasons, and then it takes them a huge amount of time to get the excess charge refunded. I often transfer from mainline rail (which doesn't use Oyster) to tube at places like Kings Cross Thameslink, Farringdon, Moorgate, or Blackfriars where it is hard (or impossible) to find an Oyster machine to touch in to, so I expect that using one will be a frequent waste of time and maybe money. This, IMHO, is one of the main problems with the Oyster system - although, like you say, it's easy to end up with unresolved journeys for all sorts of reasons, they deliberately go out of their way to make it difficult to get the problem resolved. Ticket office staff (while extremely helpful IME) do not have permission to sort out unresolved journeys in many situations. And if your card is unregistered, the Oyster helpline flatly refuse to help you at all. The only mitigating factor is that the charge for an unresolved journey is (currently) the minimum fare, so some of the time at least you don't lose out financially. However, it's been reported in this group that at some point the charge will increase to the maximum (i.e. zones 1-6) fare. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:10:13 +0000, Clive Page
wrote: I think there's a problem for all visitors, because they won't easily be able to use all the stored value (or get their deposit back). Indeed. In Hong Kong, when you leave, you can simply hand back your Octopus (similar to Oyster) card at the ticket office, and be given back your deposit in cash, along with any value that was left on the card. I don't see why they can't do the same here. - I keep getting stored value left which I can't use after my trip is over. The Oyster card brings London into line with these other tourist-unfriendly transport systems. This doesn't seem to me to be much of an advance. And presumably they see no reason to fix it, because they'd lose out on all the stored value that they'd otherwise get to just keep. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
In message , "tim (moved to sweden)"
writes Can I just suggest that it is silly to buy strip cards in the first place if you are unceratin that you are going to use them. In many European towns the strip card discount is no more than 10%. Risking wasting 50% of a strip ticket to save 10% just doesn't seem very sensible. Is that really so now? In London carnet tickets give you something like a 30% discount, in Paris it was slightly more last time I was there. Cities with strip cards like Munich and Amsterday seemed to be giving similar discounts last time I visited - and if you are not sure exactly how many trips you are going to make, it's very easy to end up with unused strips. It's certainly easier than trying to find ticket offices or machines which will sell you singles each time. Back to the main point: visitors to London faced with a single fare which is half the price or less when using an Oyster card will, in many cases, try to grapple with the system, rather than purchase what will seem to them outrageously expensive singles. And since the rules for Oyster cards are too complicated even for experienced natives to grasp in their full glory, what hope is there for the visitor for a couple of days? -- Clive Page |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes From which terminal at Heathrow? Also, didn't someone say here recently that the tube ticket office now offers a wider range of tickets? From the T123 tube station. Last time I did this the ticket clerk said (roughly, and with a smile) "I happen to remember the station code for Luton, for most places I have to look it up in a book, isn't that sad" - and he just punched the code in to his machine and it spat out the right ticket. -- Clive Page |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
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New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
"Adrian" wrote in message . 244.170... I'm not sure that many employers really need that. I can't see it being very popular, either with the poor sod that's got to fight through it to process the expenses nor with the person who many not want their exact movements for the last month broadcast to their employer. "Umm, that morning that you had to be up early for the important meeting - why did you enter Piccadilly Circus at damn near midnight?" If I found this was a problem I would probably get myself a second card for business use only (and charge the deposit to expenses). Then I could just attach the whole printout to my claim at the end of the month rather than having to go through it with a highlighter pen. D A Stocks |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:13:28 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote: On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 18:47:24 +0100, "tim \(moved to sweden\)" wrote: I've no idea what a printout of Oyster journeys looks like, but it wouldn't suprise me if it was insufficient proof of the expense for some country's tax authorities. [no VAT] And I would have thought that if you're claiming expenses an Oyster print would be "better" than a ticket, as it'll show the journey(s) you've made, whereas Underground tickets just show the origin station and how much you've paid, if memory serves. Indeed. Much clearer. The printout comes in 2 forms: long and short. Long: details of the 3 slots, expired and current passes, then the prepay amount. 8 last journeys, and when prepay added, and 2 last reject codes (one of mine goes back to Jan 2005, on every printout). Short: 8 last journeys and the last rejects, skimpy details on passes in the 3 slots. And all good for claiming expenses. Accountant didn't blink an eyelid. It's in fact *much* clearer than a return card since that often comes with half the total as the main number and doesn't spell out the entitlement clearly - I bet accountants and IR are well used to them though. Of course if the journey is a single, the tube machine can swallow it whole. Claiming that is a question of trust. The pain is that 7-days and monthlies can be printed from the web page, but prepay journeys don't get loaded onto the web site. I can see my journeys on a machine but have to queue up to get a printout - and not all counter staff know the ropes: "you want what?" -- New anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
The pain is that 7-days and monthlies can be printed from the web page, but prepay journeys don't get loaded onto the web site. I can see my journeys on a machine but have to queue up to get a printout - and not all counter staff know the ropes: "you want what?" I have always found asking "Can you give me a print out of what is on the card?" will result in getting the long print-out. If you ask some for a "journey history" you get looked at as if you are speaking French. The alternative is to email "Ask Oyster" and get a much more comprehesive report. Usually when I have requested the report before noon, it has arrived in the next days post. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
Logically, they should offer the same fare as Cambridge Station would sell for a journey heading the other way, i.e. Cambridge to Heathrow Underground (NLC0782) if such a fare exists (which you should be able to check in an East National Fares Manual, or at Cambridge Station). Failing that, it'll possibly be the cost of an LU Zone 1 to 6 Single or Return plus the appropriate Single or Return from London to Cambridge. Railcard discounts *should* be available, as they've been available on through fares *from* National Rail stations to LU Zones for some time. Some have indicated in other threads that rail card discounts are available from tube stations. However the experience does seem to vary. Also the information on the the railcard websites do not support railcards acceptance at LUL ticket offices: Taken from http://www.youngpersons-railcard.co.uk/faq.htm#15 "Please note, however, that you cannot use your Railcard to obtain a discount when purchasing tickets from a London Underground booking office." Taken from http://www.senior-railcard.co.uk/faq.htm#12 "Please note, however, that you cannot use your Senior Railcard to obtain a discount when purchasing tickets from a London Underground booking office." Couldn't find anything definite either way on the Network Card site. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
"Clive Page" wrote in message ... In message , "tim (moved to sweden)" writes Can I just suggest that it is silly to buy strip cards in the first place if you are unceratin that you are going to use them. In many European towns the strip card discount is no more than 10%. Risking wasting 50% of a strip ticket to save 10% just doesn't seem very sensible. Is that really so now? In London carnet tickets give you something like a 30% discount, in Paris it was slightly more last time I was there. Cities with strip cards like Munich and Amsterday seemed to be In Munich a single ride is 2.20 2 strips of a strip-ticket is 2.00 giving similar discounts last time I visited - and if you are not sure exactly how many trips you are going to make, it's very easy to end up with unused strips. It's certainly easier than trying to find ticket offices or machines which will sell you singles each time. Don't they always have machines? And with a day pass at 4.50, if you are sure that you are going to do at least two trips (and most people *are* making at least an out and back trip) you can buy one of these and at worse you lose 0.50, far less than you can lose by buying a strip-card and not using it. Back to the main point: visitors to London faced with a single fare which is half the price or less when using an Oyster card will, in many cases, try to grapple with the system, rather than purchase what will seem to them outrageously expensive singles. And since the rules for Oyster cards are too complicated even for experienced natives to grasp in their full glory, what hope is there for the visitor for a couple of days? TBH, if they have any sense, they will look at the price of a single (3.00) and the price of a ODTC (6.20) and buy the latter. Tourists like an easy life, buying a Travelcard meets that in spades. tim |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
David A Stocks wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message . 244.170... I'm not sure that many employers really need that. I can't see it being very popular, either with the poor sod that's got to fight through it to process the expenses nor with the person who many not want their exact movements for the last month broadcast to their employer. "Umm, that morning that you had to be up early for the important meeting - why did you enter Piccadilly Circus at damn near midnight?" If I found this was a problem I would probably get myself a second card for business use only (and charge the deposit to expenses). Then I could just attach the whole printout to my claim at the end of the month rather than having to go through it with a highlighter pen. That's similar to what I did last month - I counted what all the journeys on my personal Oyster (some season, some prepay for out of zone) WOULD have cost if they had been on a separate card, added it all up, bought Prepay to that value and handed in the receipt for that. If they don't like that (and there are one or two obvious reasons why they might not!), then I probably will just get an additional card for work use as you suggest. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
In message , Barry Salter
writes Logically, they should offer the same fare as Cambridge Station would sell for a journey heading the other way, i.e. Cambridge to Heathrow Is it always true that fares from A to B are the same as from B to A? I've never been sure that the railway system has even such basic logic built in. Railcard discounts *should* be available, as they've been available on through fares *from* National Rail stations to LU Zones for some time. Every time I've asked, LU ticket offices have told me that NSE Network Card discounts aren't available - essentially because their ticket machines don't have the right programming. -- Clive Page |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 14:06:37 +0000, U n d e r a c h i e v e r
wrote: On 2/11/05 1:48 am, in article , "James Farrar" wrote: My elderly father makes about two or three journeys per year by public transport in London. He does not 'deserve' to pay through the nose. If he chooses to pay more than he needs to, he does. No he does not. He's not got a snowball's chance in hell of getting an Oyster. He'll turn up to the station and buy a ticket. That is choosing to pay more than he needs to. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
U n d e r a c h i e v e r said:
wrote: That is choosing to pay more than he needs to. Not if the number of journeys he makes in total per year does not warrant getting an Oyster (and I doubt it) Not if when he next makes a TfL journey it doesn't start with an opportunity to buy an Oyster (eg on a bus) Not if he simply cannot understand the value/benefit because it has not been explained to him. Or if he's just uncomfortable with the whole idea of virtual tickets and needs the reassurance of paying real money to a real person for a real ticket that he can actually see and touch and hold. Yes, an incentive discount is great, but single fares should not be set at punative levels. I agree. The current system is unfauirly biased so that people who are comfortable with electronic gadgets and gizmos can get discounts; but those who aren't, can't. Fares shouldn't be based on passengers' personalities! |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
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New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 08:19:58 +0000, U n d e r a c h i e v e r
wrote: Yes, an incentive discount is great, but single fares should not be set at punative levels. As I've said before - what I DO like about Ken is that when he does something, he really does it. Most politicians would waste millions on publicity and offer a 5% discount for using Oyster. Ken makes it an absolute no-brainer to use Oyster. People who make 3 journeys a year will, indeed, take more than a year to break even. My heart bleeds. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:12:23 -0000, wrote:
Not if he simply cannot understand the value/benefit because it has not been explained to him. So explain it to him. He's your Dad for heaven's sake! Help him out! Or if he's just uncomfortable with the whole idea of virtual tickets and needs the reassurance of paying real money to a real person for a real ticket that he can actually see and touch and hold. Tough. Perhaps he'd prefer to buy oats and feed the horse personally? |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 08:19:58 +0000, U n d e r a c h i e v e r
wrote: On 11/11/05 9:41 am, in article , "James Farrar" wrote: My elderly father makes about two or three journeys per year by public transport in London. He does not 'deserve' to pay through the nose. If he chooses to pay more than he needs to, he does. No he does not. He's not got a snowball's chance in hell of getting an Oyster. He'll turn up to the station and buy a ticket. That is choosing to pay more than he needs to. Not if the number of journeys he makes in total per year does not warrant getting an Oyster (and I doubt it) Why "per year"? Two journeys total to break even. Not if when he next makes a TfL journey it doesn't start with an opportunity to buy an Oyster (eg on a bus) Get him one in his name now, then! And you said that he would "turn up at the station and buy a ticket", anyway. Not if he simply cannot understand the value/benefit because it has not been explained to him. I don't see the relevance of this. Maybe you should tell him "this will save you money". -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:12:23 -0000, wrote:
U n d e r a c h i e v e r said: wrote: That is choosing to pay more than he needs to. Not if the number of journeys he makes in total per year does not warrant getting an Oyster (and I doubt it) Not if when he next makes a TfL journey it doesn't start with an opportunity to buy an Oyster (eg on a bus) Not if he simply cannot understand the value/benefit because it has not been explained to him. Or if he's just uncomfortable with the whole idea of virtual tickets and needs the reassurance of paying real money to a real person for a real ticket that he can actually see and touch and hold. I can't understand wanting to pay pay extra for such a privilege. -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
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