On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:10:13 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

I think there's a problem for all visitors, because they won't easily be
able to use all the stored value (or get their deposit back).

Indeed. In Hong Kong, when you leave, you can simply hand back your
Octopus (similar to Oyster) card at the ticket office, and be given
back your deposit in cash, along with any value that was left on the
card. I don't see why they can't do the same here.

- I keep getting stored value left which I can't use after my trip is
over.

The Oyster card brings London into line with these other
tourist-unfriendly transport systems. This doesn't seem to me to be
much of an advance.

And presumably they see no reason to fix it, because they'd lose out
on all the stored value that they'd otherwise get to just keep.

In message , "tim (moved to sweden)"
writes
Can I just suggest that it is silly to buy strip cards in the
first place if you are unceratin that you are going to use them.

In many European towns the strip card discount is no more
than 10%. Risking wasting 50% of a strip ticket to save
10% just doesn't seem very sensible.

Is that really so now? In London carnet tickets give you something
like a 30% discount, in Paris it was slightly more last time I was
there. Cities with strip cards like Munich and Amsterday seemed to be
giving similar discounts last time I visited - and if you are not sure
exactly how many trips you are going to make, it's very easy to end up
with unused strips. It's certainly easier than trying to find ticket
offices or machines which will sell you singles each time.

Back to the main point: visitors to London faced with a single fare
which is half the price or less when using an Oyster card will, in many
cases, try to grapple with the system, rather than purchase what will
seem to them outrageously expensive singles. And since the rules for
Oyster cards are too complicated even for experienced natives to grasp
in their full glory, what hope is there for the visitor for a couple of
days?



--
Clive Page

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
From which terminal at Heathrow? Also, didn't someone say here recently
that the tube ticket office now offers a wider range of tickets?

From the T123 tube station. Last time I did this the ticket clerk said
(roughly, and with a smile) "I happen to remember the station code for
Luton, for most places I have to look it up in a book, isn't that sad" -
and he just punched the code in to his machine and it spat out the right
ticket.


--
Clive Page

In article ,
(Clive Page) wrote:

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
From which terminal at Heathrow? Also, didn't someone say here
recently that the tube ticket office now offers a wider range of
tickets?

From the T123 tube station. Last time I did this the ticket clerk
said (roughly, and with a smile) "I happen to remember the station
code for Luton, for most places I have to look it up in a book, isn't
that sad" - and he just punched the code in to his machine and it
spat out the right ticket.

Ah! That's new then. I wonder how I can find out short of going there
what fares to Cambridge they offer?

However, if they don't accept Network Cards that doesn't really solve my
original complaint.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
I'm not sure that many employers really need that. I can't see it being
very popular, either with the poor sod that's got to fight through it to
process the expenses nor with the person who many not want their exact
movements for the last month broadcast to their employer.

"Umm, that morning that you had to be up early for the important meeting -
why did you enter Piccadilly Circus at damn near midnight?"

If I found this was a problem I would probably get myself a second card for
business use only (and charge the deposit to expenses). Then I could just
attach the whole printout to my claim at the end of the month rather than
having to go through it with a highlighter pen.

D A Stocks

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:13:28 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote:

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 18:47:24 +0100, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:

I've no idea what a printout of Oyster journeys looks like,
but it wouldn't suprise me if it was insufficient proof of the
expense for some country's tax authorities.
[no VAT]
And I would have thought that if you're claiming expenses an Oyster
print would be "better" than a ticket, as it'll show the journey(s)
you've made, whereas Underground tickets just show the origin station
and how much you've paid, if memory serves.

Indeed. Much clearer.

The printout comes in 2 forms: long and short.

Long: details of the 3 slots, expired and current passes, then the
prepay amount. 8 last journeys, and when prepay added, and 2 last
reject codes (one of mine goes back to Jan 2005, on every printout).

Short: 8 last journeys and the last rejects, skimpy details on passes
in the 3 slots.

And all good for claiming expenses. Accountant didn't blink an eyelid.
It's in fact *much* clearer than a return card since that often comes
with half the total as the main number and doesn't spell out the
entitlement clearly - I bet accountants and IR are well used to them
though. Of course if the journey is a single, the tube machine can
swallow it whole. Claiming that is a question of trust.

The pain is that 7-days and monthlies can be printed from the web
page, but prepay journeys don't get loaded onto the web site. I can
see my journeys on a machine but have to queue up to get a printout -
and not all counter staff know the ropes: "you want what?"
--
New anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com

The pain is that 7-days and monthlies can be printed from the web
page, but prepay journeys don't get loaded onto the web site. I can
see my journeys on a machine but have to queue up to get a printout -
and not all counter staff know the ropes: "you want what?"

I have always found asking "Can you give me a print out of what is on
the card?" will result in getting the long print-out. If you ask some for a
"journey history" you get looked at as if you are speaking French.

The alternative is to email "Ask Oyster" and get a much more
comprehesive report. Usually when I have requested the report before
noon, it has arrived in the next days post.

Logically, they should offer the same fare as Cambridge Station would
sell for a journey heading the other way, i.e. Cambridge to Heathrow
Underground (NLC0782) if such a fare exists (which you should be able to
check in an East National Fares Manual, or at Cambridge Station).
Failing that, it'll possibly be the cost of an LU Zone 1 to 6 Single or
Return plus the appropriate Single or Return from London to Cambridge.

Railcard discounts *should* be available, as they've been available on
through fares *from* National Rail stations to LU Zones for some time.

Some have indicated in other threads that rail card discounts are available
from tube stations. However the experience does seem to vary. Also the
information on the the railcard websites do not support railcards acceptance
at LUL ticket offices:

Taken from http://www.youngpersons-railcard.co.uk/faq.htm#15

"Please note, however, that you cannot use your Railcard to obtain a discount
when purchasing tickets from a London Underground booking office."

Taken from http://www.senior-railcard.co.uk/faq.htm#12

"Please note, however, that you cannot use your Senior Railcard to obtain a
discount when purchasing tickets from a London Underground booking office."

Couldn't find anything definite either way on the Network Card site.

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
In message , "tim (moved to sweden)"
writes
Can I just suggest that it is silly to buy strip cards in the
first place if you are unceratin that you are going to use them.

In many European towns the strip card discount is no more
than 10%. Risking wasting 50% of a strip ticket to save
10% just doesn't seem very sensible.

Is that really so now? In London carnet tickets give you something like
a 30% discount, in Paris it was slightly more last time I was there.
Cities with strip cards like Munich and Amsterday seemed to be

In Munich a single ride is 2.20
2 strips of a strip-ticket is 2.00

giving similar discounts last time I visited - and if you are not sure
exactly how many trips you are going to make, it's very easy to end up
with unused strips. It's certainly easier than trying to find ticket
offices or machines which will sell you singles each time.

Don't they always have machines?

And with a day pass at 4.50, if you are sure that you are going
to do at least two trips (and most people *are* making at least
an out and back trip) you can buy one of these and at worse
you lose 0.50, far less than you can lose by buying a strip-card
and not using it.

Back to the main point: visitors to London faced with a single fare which
is half the price or less when using an Oyster card will, in many cases,
try to grapple with the system, rather than purchase what will seem to
them outrageously expensive singles. And since the rules for Oyster
cards are too complicated even for experienced natives to grasp in their
full glory, what hope is there for the visitor for a couple of days?

TBH, if they have any sense, they will look at the price of a
single (3.00) and the price of a ODTC (6.20) and buy the latter.

Tourists like an easy life, buying a Travelcard meets that in
spades.

tim

David A Stocks wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...

I'm not sure that many employers really need that. I can't see it being

very popular, either with the poor sod that's got to fight through it to
process the expenses nor with the person who many not want their exact
movements for the last month broadcast to their employer.

"Umm, that morning that you had to be up early for the important meeting -
why did you enter Piccadilly Circus at damn near midnight?"


If I found this was a problem I would probably get myself a second card for
business use only (and charge the deposit to expenses). Then I could just
attach the whole printout to my claim at the end of the month rather than
having to go through it with a highlighter pen.

That's similar to what I did last month - I counted what all the
journeys on my personal Oyster (some season, some prepay for out of
zone) WOULD have cost if they had been on a separate card, added it all
up, bought Prepay to that value and handed in the receipt for that.

If they don't like that (and there are one or two obvious reasons why
they might not!), then I probably will just get an additional card for
work use as you suggest.