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New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf
The Family Travelcard, Tube Carnet, Single zone Travelcard seasons and some New Deal tickets are being withdrawn. But a less obvious disappearance is Oyster Prepay. It's now referred to as 'pay as you go'! Dominic |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
wrote:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf The Family Travelcard, Tube Carnet, Single zone Travelcard seasons and some New Deal tickets are being withdrawn. But a less obvious disappearance is Oyster Prepay. It's now referred to as 'pay as you go'! That's crazy! It's not pay as you go, it's pay *before* you go. Pre-Pay was a good name which accurately described the concept of paying in advance for a number of journeys, as distinct from paying for each journey in cash, which *is* pay-as-you-go. I suppose they're trying to hide the fact that they will get lots of money up front, but in changing the name they have just made the whole Oyster concept more difficult to understand. I feel an e-mail to TfL coming on. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
"Richard J." wrote in message o.uk... wrote: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf The Family Travelcard, Tube Carnet, Single zone Travelcard seasons and some New Deal tickets are being withdrawn. But a less obvious disappearance is Oyster Prepay. It's now referred to as 'pay as you go'! That's crazy! It's not pay as you go, it's pay *before* you go. Isn't that how pay-as-you-go Mobile Phone's work then? Mike |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005, Mike Hudgell wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message o.uk... wrote: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf The Family Travelcard, Tube Carnet, Single zone Travelcard seasons and some New Deal tickets are being withdrawn. But a less obvious disappearance is Oyster Prepay. It's now referred to as 'pay as you go'! That's crazy! It's not pay as you go, it's pay *before* you go. Isn't that how pay-as-you-go Mobile Phone's work then? Exactly. 'Pay as you go' has ceased to be a descriptive phrase, and is now, thanks to mobile phones, an atomic symbol - a single word with spaces in, essentially - which means 'you put credit on it ahead of time and then spend that credit as you go'. I wouldn't be surprised if key-operated electricity meters started being called pay-as-you-go as well. tom -- Would you like to remember more? |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
wrote in message
oups.com... http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf The Family Travelcard, Tube Carnet, Single zone Travelcard seasons and some New Deal tickets are being withdrawn. But a less obvious disappearance is Oyster Prepay. It's now referred to as 'pay as you go'! Dominic Can somebody explain how capping works if you have a 'pay as you go' oystercard ? If you only used the buses but then suddenly had to jump on a tube, will you be charged again until you reach the next capping level, and then so on if you end up going through more than one zone ? At what point would it be better to buy a 1 day travelcard instead of relying on the capping ? Thanks. -- ============================== Click it or not, it's not up to me. But spondulas for you, if you wanna see:- http://tinyurl.com/7m3nr |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
"Richard J." wrote in message o.uk... wrote: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf The Family Travelcard, Tube Carnet, Single zone Travelcard seasons and some New Deal tickets are being withdrawn. But a less obvious disappearance is Oyster Prepay. It's now referred to as 'pay as you go'! That's crazy! It's not pay as you go, it's pay *before* you go. Pre-Pay was a good name which accurately described the concept of paying in advance for a number of journeys, as distinct from paying for each journey in cash, which *is* pay-as-you-go. I suppose they're trying to hide the fact that they will get lots of money up front, but in changing the name they have just made the whole Oyster concept more difficult to understand. I feel an e-mail to TfL coming on. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) Oh come on Richard. 'Pay As You Go' is common parlance now thanks to the popular Mobile Phone payment mechanism. Oyster Pre-Pay is exactly the same concept as mobile phone PAYG. It makes absolute sense for TfL to describe it using a term that the general public (excepting yourself perhaps) are totally comfortable with. Colin |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
"EK" typed
Can somebody explain how capping works if you have a 'pay as you go' oystercard ? If you only used the buses but then suddenly had to jump on a tube, will you be charged again until you reach the next capping level, and then so on if you end up going through more than one zone ? If you jump on a tube, you should get capped at the lowest appropriate One Day Travelcard rate. (Zone 2-6, 1-6, 1-4 or whatever) Before that, you'd get capped at the level for a One Day Bus Pass. At what point would it be better to buy a 1 day travelcard instead of relying on the capping ? As soon as there is any chance you might need to use National Rail, on which Oyster is, by and large, not valid. -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
Can somebody explain how capping works if you have a 'pay as you go' oystercard ? If you only used the buses but then suddenly had to jump on a tube, will you be charged again until you reach the next capping level, and then so on if you end up going through more than one zone ? Yes exactly like that. If you change mode or travel through more zones or travel at different times the caps will change and your previous journeys count towards the new cap. At what point would it be better to buy a 1 day travelcard instead of relying on the capping ? At the point you know you want to use National Rail as capping only works on a select few routes. Otherwise the cap will be 50p less than the paper travelcard from 2006. There will be no benefit at all in buying a paper bus pass as it will be priced 50p more than a one day bus pass and you will loose the flexibility of being able to jump on the tube and have it count towards your tube cap. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:51:25 +0100, "EK"
wrote: Can somebody explain how capping works if you have a 'pay as you go' oystercard ? If you only used the buses but then suddenly had to jump on a tube, will you be charged again until you reach the next capping level, and then so on if you end up going through more than one zone ? At what point would it be better to buy a 1 day travelcard instead of relying on the capping ? If you stick to busses, you are capped at the price of a one-day bus pass. If you use tube as well, you are capped at the price of a one-day travelcard. Or slightly less - isn't there a small discount? You need to buy a paper TC if you need to use National Rail within th travelcard zone. NR are dragging their heels at implementing oyster pre-pay. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
Colin wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message o.uk... wrote: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf The Family Travelcard, Tube Carnet, Single zone Travelcard seasons and some New Deal tickets are being withdrawn. But a less obvious disappearance is Oyster Prepay. It's now referred to as 'pay as you go'! That's crazy! It's not pay as you go, it's pay *before* you go. Pre-Pay was a good name which accurately described the concept of paying in advance for a number of journeys, as distinct from paying for each journey in cash, which *is* pay-as-you-go. I suppose they're trying to hide the fact that they will get lots of money up front, but in changing the name they have just made the whole Oyster concept more difficult to understand. I feel an e-mail to TfL coming on. Oh come on Richard. 'Pay As You Go' is common parlance now thanks to the popular Mobile Phone payment mechanism. Oyster Pre-Pay is exactly the same concept as mobile phone PAYG. It makes absolute sense for TfL to describe it using a term that the general public (excepting yourself perhaps) are totally comfortable with. Well, I must admit that the inconvenience of PAYG mobile phones is not something that I have to put up with, having an Orange "Virgin EQ" contract with zero rental and my (relatively few) call charges paid monthly by direct debit. Sadly, Orange no longer offer this. But I still feel that PAYG is a daft term for Oyster, since TfL want it to be a replacement for cash fares which really are PAYG and don't have a £3 initial charge. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
Laurence Payne typed
If you stick to busses, you are capped at the price of a one-day bus pass. If you use tube as well, you are capped at the price of a one-day travelcard. Or slightly less - isn't there a small discount? 50p from 2/1/2006. You need to buy a paper TC if you need to use National Rail within th travelcard zone. NR are dragging their heels at implementing oyster pre-pay. -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
wrote in message
oups.com... http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf The Family Travelcard, Tube Carnet, Single zone Travelcard seasons and some New Deal tickets are being withdrawn. But a less obvious disappearance is Oyster Prepay. It's now referred to as 'pay as you go'! Dominic Does anyone know the URL for the fares north of Moor Park for 2006 ? |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:51:25 +0100, "EK"
wrote: At what point would it be better to buy a 1 day travelcard instead of relying on the capping ? If you: - wish to travel on National Rail (except certain routes where pre-pay is valid) - are the holder of a Railcard or Gold Card, or are travelling with someone who is, if you can buy a discounted Travelcard, and if it would cost less than the pre-pay cap would be - want the daily charge to cover journeys starting between 0000 and 0429 the following day (as opposed to 0430 and 0429 the following day) - are not travelling via Zone 1, but are making at least 1 Tube journey that would be charged as if you did - often forget to touch in - have an unregistered Oyster card and often forget to touch out |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On 26 Oct 2005 09:06:49 -0700, wrote:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf The Family Travelcard, Tube Carnet, Single zone Travelcard seasons and some New Deal tickets are being withdrawn. But a less obvious disappearance is Oyster Prepay. It's now referred to as 'pay as you go'! The fares leaflet also includes something completely new that's interesting and doesn't seem to have been publicised. Currently, through tickets are available between Tube/DLR and NR, but they are charged at the same price as buying a separate ticket for each leg. However, the PDF introduces a new concept of "Tube/DLR – Train fares": "Tube/DLR – Train fares cover through journeys between the Tube/DLR and National Rail and are the maximum that you will pay for a single journey in the London zonal area." The tickets are zonal singles (with a return costing twice the single fare). Although they are more expensive than Tube singles (and *considerably* more expensive than pre-pay fares), for the first time, there are singles available which are "blind" as to whether the journey covers Tube/DLR, NR, or both. Is this the first step towards the harmonisation of rail fares across modes in London, and the ubiquitous validity of pre-pay? |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
The fares leaflet also includes something completely new that's
interesting and doesn't seem to have been publicised. Currently, through tickets are available between Tube/DLR and NR, but they are charged at the same price as buying a separate ticket for each leg. However, the PDF introduces a new concept of "Tube/DLR - Train fares": "Tube/DLR - Train fares cover through journeys between the Tube/DLR and National Rail and are the maximum that you will pay for a single journey in the London zonal area." The tickets are zonal singles (with a return costing twice the single fare). Although they are more expensive than Tube singles (and *considerably* more expensive than pre-pay fares), for the first time, there are singles available which are "blind" as to whether the journey covers Tube/DLR, NR, or both. Is this the first step towards the harmonisation of rail fares across modes in London, and the ubiquitous validity of pre-pay? There is a note saying: "and are the *maximum* that you will pay for a single journey in the London zonal area" What does this mean? Are they priced at the highest possible rail fare they could find in order to make them valid to any rail destination in the respective zones? The implication is for some routes these will represent bad value if the rail companies fare (+ the tube journey) is much less than the combined ticket. Is there any mechanism to protect the customer from buying the more expensive ticket? |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
Richard J. wrote:
But I still feel that PAYG is a daft term for Oyster, since TfL want it to be a replacement for cash fares which really are PAYG and don't have a £3 initial charge. Depends how much you value your time. Anyone more senior than a kitchen cleaner will spend £3 of their time a week queuing to buy cash singles. Raoul. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
But I still feel that PAYG is a daft term for Oyster, since TfL want it
to be a replacement for cash fares which really are PAYG and don't have a £3 initial charge. Perhaps cash fares will be rebranded as "Pay through the nose" from January. The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year so its hardly a moot point. Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6 Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5 Not only recouped but a pound saved. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:03:31 +0100, "TKD" wrote:
There is a note saying: "and are the *maximum* that you will pay for a single journey in the London zonal area" What does this mean? Are they priced at the highest possible rail fare they could find in order to make them valid to any rail destination in the respective zones? *looks for a counterexample* Harrow & Wealdstone to East Croydon (on the direct service): Standard Day Single £6.00; Cheap Day Single £3.60. Next year the Tube/DLR - Train fare will be £3.40. I would take "and are the maximum that you will pay..." to mean that the (NR) ticket offices at H&W or EC would sell you this ticket instead of the NR singles, as it's cheaper, even though the journey doesn't include a Tube/DLR leg. The implication is for some routes these will represent bad value if the rail companies fare (+ the tube journey) is much less than the combined ticket. Perhaps the ticket office would sell an "old style" combined ticket in this case. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
|
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:07:59 +0100,
wrote: One group which, as far as I can see, is particularly hit by the new structure is that of pensioners who can use their Freedom Pass after 9 a.m. but need to pay the high cash rates when traveling to earlier hospital and other medical appointments. Prepay Oysters are available to crumblies too, I believe. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:15:45 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote: One group which, as far as I can see, is particularly hit by the new structure is that of pensioners who can use their Freedom Pass after 9 a.m. but need to pay the high cash rates when traveling to earlier hospital and other medical appointments. Prepay Oysters are available to crumblies too, I believe. Not to mention the highly developed system of refunding travel expenses to medical appointments for those who need it. That'll teach you to play an "emotion" card :-) |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
In message , Laurence Payne
writes You need to buy a paper TC if you need to use National Rail within th travelcard zone. NR are dragging their heels at implementing oyster pre-pay. On the Parliamentary channel the other day was London assembly questions to Ken Livingston who said that NR had been offered full installation of oyster readers in the GLA but didn't want to know, so now was considering taking all the railways in the GLA under the TfL umbrella. -- Clive |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:15:45 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote: On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:07:59 +0100, wrote: One group which, as far as I can see, is particularly hit by the new structure is that of pensioners who can use their Freedom Pass after 9 a.m. but need to pay the high cash rates when traveling to earlier hospital and other medical appointments. Prepay Oysters are available to crumblies too, I believe. Indeed, I have a Freedom Pass but also have prepay oyster for early journeys, very useful, plus I am not too crumbly just yet :) -- Martin |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
wrote in message ... On 26 Oct 2005 09:06:49 -0700, wrote: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/...06-leaflet.pdf One group which, as far as I can see, is particularly hit by the new structure is that of pensioners who can use their Freedom Pass after 9 a.m. but need to pay the high cash rates when traveling to earlier hospital and other medical appointments. I know of at least three people with Freedom passes who also hold Oyster Cards and use them for journeys before 9am. Two of them even have auto-top up activated. If you are sufficiently disabled they give you a freedom pass encoded to allow travel before 9am anyway. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:59:50 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote: So it's not entirely unreasonable for the train companies to be unwilling to spend a not unsubstantial sum of money installing gates and/or Oyster validators at all the stations in the zonal area if there's no guarantee that the same hardware will be capable of accepting a potential future *national* smartcard system, as at the end of the day, that money will have to come from their passengers, either directly through the farebox, or via increased subsidy from the taxpayer. Okay, but (IIUC) it's not their money that would be spent, it's the GLA's. And they don't seem to have a problem with having the validators installed at every *gated* station within the zones - why the difference? It must be something to do with pre-pay, surely? |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
asdf wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:59:50 +0100, Barry Salter wrote: So it's not entirely unreasonable for the train companies to be unwilling to spend a not unsubstantial sum of money installing gates and/or Oyster validators at all the stations in the zonal area if there's no guarantee that the same hardware will be capable of accepting a potential future *national* smartcard system, as at the end of the day, that money will have to come from their passengers, either directly through the farebox, or via increased subsidy from the taxpayer. Okay, but (IIUC) it's not their money that would be spent, it's the GLA's. And they don't seem to have a problem with having the validators installed at every *gated* station within the zones - why the difference? It must be something to do with pre-pay, surely? According to this news article, SWT are working on the expansion of Prepay onto a couple of its routes for early next year as a trial: http://tinyurl.com/9j4rm -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
Colin wrote:
Oh come on Richard. 'Pay As You Go' is common parlance now thanks to the popular Mobile Phone payment mechanism. Oyster Pre-Pay is exactly the same concept as mobile phone PAYG. It makes absolute sense for TfL to describe it using a term that the general public (excepting yourself perhaps) are totally comfortable with. So if TfL want to make their Oyster product sound like mobile phones, perhaps they should consider another option whereby you get billed and pay by direct debit (or credit card) at the end of each month according to your usage. -- Phil Richards London, UK Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:59:50 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote: On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:54:37 +0100, Clive wrote: On the Parliamentary channel the other day was London assembly questions to Ken Livingston who said that NR had been offered full installation of oyster readers in the GLA but didn't want to know, so now was considering taking all the railways in the GLA under the TfL umbrella. What "Red Ken" neglects to mention is that Oyster isn't actually compatible with the Integrated Transport Smartcard Organisation (ITSO) specification, nor can the "APTIS replacement" Ticket Office machines handle Oyster. So? ITSO were nowhere to be found when the Oyster contract was awarded. They've come up with precisely nothing compared to a working system in London. The much vaunted Manchester smartcard has yet to materialise into a working scheme. There was a window of opportunity where ITSO compatibility could have been built into Oyster if ITSO have known what it wanted. AFAIK it didn't and Oyster could not wait so that opportunity was lost. Old APTIS did work with Oyster because my local station had it. The TOCs and ATOC have been pitiful when it comes to trying to work with TfL / LT on Oyster. I should know - I was involved in the early discussions and to describe the views as surreal is an understatement. They are now in the situation of being overtaken by events - technically and politically given DfT's likely decision to grant Ken more control over London rail services. Members of ITSO include the "Big 5" bus companies (Arriva, First, Go-Ahead, NatEx and Stagecoach), ATOC, various ticketing system manufacturers (Almex, Ascom, ATOS Origin and Cubic Transportation), most of the PTEs, BT, BemroseBooth (who supply most of the ticket blanks to the TOCs) and the Department for Transport. And all of the manufacturers barring Cubic have sat and moaned rather than try to work with Cubic (part of Transys) to develop compatible equipment. Cubic have developed readers that can deal with more than one form of card and the Oyster system contract recognises the requirement for other cards to be read, written to and for data to move around between different card management systems. So it's not entirely unreasonable for the train companies to be unwilling to spend a not unsubstantial sum of money installing gates and/or Oyster validators at all the stations in the zonal area if there's no guarantee that the same hardware will be capable of accepting a potential future *national* smartcard system, as at the end of the day, that money will have to come from their passengers, either directly through the farebox, or via increased subsidy from the taxpayer. As the TOCs don't have to spend anything I fail to see why that is being quoted as an issue. This is all covered under existing agreements for Travelcard, Through Ticketing and ticket technology changes. They knew this years ago. They have done nothing apart from prevaricate about whether they might lost out on some revenue if people switch technologies or products. Perhaps it would have been more sensible for them to actively participate in the debate and subsequent development of Oyster so that their requirements were built in from day 1. Instead (I'm convinced) they are going to be forced to accept something they have little control over. All very disappointing but let's hope someone can get their act together to secure more effective ticket product integration. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
What "Red Ken" neglects to mention is that Oyster isn't actually
compatible with the Integrated Transport Smartcard Organisation (ITSO) specification, nor can the "APTIS replacement" Ticket Office machines handle Oyster. You can hardly blame the mayor for something that was decided before his job was even created. And in a similar vein you can hardly blame the people behind Oyster Card for misplacing their crystal ball in regards to future card standards and ticket issuing equipment of third parties who do not disclose the information in the first place. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:17:57 +0100, "TKD" wrote:
But I still feel that PAYG is a daft term for Oyster, since TfL want it to be a replacement for cash fares which really are PAYG and don't have a £3 initial charge. Perhaps cash fares will be rebranded as "Pay through the nose" from January. The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year so its hardly a moot point. Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6 Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5 Not only recouped but a pound saved. A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of understanding! -- Nick Cooper [Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!] The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV: http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/ |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
Barry Salter wrote:
What "Red Ken" neglects to mention is that Oyster isn't actually compatible with the Integrated Transport Smartcard Organisation (ITSO) specification, nor can the "APTIS replacement" Ticket Office machines handle Oyster. Surely just having an extra piece of equipment in the booking office (similiar to that used by pass agents) for Oyster products would be the logical way round it? -- Phil Richards London, UK Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
What "Red Ken" neglects to mention is that Oyster isn't actually
compatible with the Integrated Transport Smartcard Organisation (ITSO) specification, nor can the "APTIS replacement" Ticket Office machines handle Oyster. Surely just having an extra piece of equipment in the booking office (similiar to that used by pass agents) for Oyster products would be the logical way round it? Exactly what they have at Fenchurch Street. When you buy a ticket on Oyster they use a reader/writer on a counter behind them. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
TKD wrote:
Exactly what they have at Fenchurch Street. When you buy a ticket on Oyster they use a reader/writer on a counter behind them. So there you go. NR stations simply become Pass Agents selling the full range of Oyster Products. In addition I'm sure an upgrade of the equipment you see in your friendly newsagent could be applied to sell the full range of TfL products. -- Phil Richards London, UK Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
asdf wrote [...] Harrow & Wealdstone to East Croydon (on the direct service): Standard Day Single £6.00; Cheap Day Single £3.60. Next year the Tube/DLR - Train fare will be £3.40. I would take "and are the maximum that you will pay..." to mean that the (NR) ticket offices at H&W or EC would sell you this ticket instead of the NR singles, as it's cheaper, even though the journey doesn't include a Tube/DLR leg. The implication is for some routes these will represent bad value if the rail companies fare (+ the tube journey) is much less than the combined ticket. Perhaps the ticket office would sell an "old style" combined ticket in this case. For a single this is unlikely but since in your example even an Z1-6 Travelcard is less than twice a £3.40 fare and a CDR is £3.70 (£5.30 using Tube) the ticket office would also have to ask if you were leaving after 9:30 and if you were coming back today or going elsewhere in the London area today. -- Mike D |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year so its hardly
a moot point. Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6 Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5 Not only recouped but a pound saved. A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of understanding! The *minimum* cash fare of £3 will get the message home. I don't think people quite understand the implication of it just yet. From January just going one stop, even in zone 6, and paying cash is going to cost £3 (instead of £1 on Oyster). This is a mark-up of 200%. If this is prominently advertised at the ticket machines and explained properly by staff surely only the insane would resist migration to Oyster? |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:59:50 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote: On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:54:37 +0100, Clive wrote: On the Parliamentary channel the other day was London assembly questions to Ken Livingston who said that NR had been offered full installation of oyster readers in the GLA but didn't want to know, so now was considering taking all the railways in the GLA under the TfL umbrella. What "Red Ken" neglects to mention is that Oyster isn't actually compatible with the Integrated Transport Smartcard Organisation (ITSO) specification, nor can the "APTIS replacement" Ticket Office machines handle Oyster. Which only matters if the TOCs are going to take up smartcards as a form of ticket. IMO smartcards are not passenger friendly form of ticketing which can just about be tolerated for urban servcies but are not acceptable for longer journeys. Members of ITSO include the "Big 5" bus companies (Arriva, First, Go-Ahead, NatEx and Stagecoach), ATOC, various ticketing system manufacturers (Almex, Ascom, ATOS Origin and Cubic Transportation), most of the PTEs, BT, BemroseBooth (who supply most of the ticket blanks to the TOCs) and the Department for Transport. So it's not entirely unreasonable for the train companies to be unwilling to spend a not unsubstantial sum of money installing gates and/or Oyster validators at all the stations in the zonal area if there's no guarantee that the same hardware will be capable of accepting a potential future *national* smartcard system, as at the end of the day, that money will have to come from their passengers, either directly through the farebox, or via increased subsidy from the taxpayer. They may agree that smartcards are not the way to go and have joined ITSO to keep the authorities quiet -- Peter Lawrence |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
|
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
The £3 deposit can be recouped from two journeys from next year so its hardly a moot point. Cash - 2 x Zone 2 (£3) singles = £6 Oyster - 2 x Zone 2 (£1) prepay = £2 (+ £3 deposit) = £5 Not only recouped but a pound saved. A very basic fact the anti-Oyster brigade seem incapable of understanding! The *minimum* cash fare of £3 will get the message home. I don't think people quite understand the implication of it just yet. From January just going one stop, even in zone 6, and paying cash is going to cost £3 (instead of £1 on Oyster). This is a mark-up of 200%. If this is prominently advertised at the ticket machines and explained properly by staff surely only the insane would resist migration to Oyster? it's called ripping off outsiders. I don't follow. Who is "outside" the group of people that are permitted to hold Oyster Cards? As I understand it anyone can have a card. |
New fares from 2 January 2006 - pdf
Phil Richards wrote:
So if TfL want to make their Oyster product sound like mobile phones, perhaps they should consider another option whereby you get billed and pay by direct debit (or credit card) at the end of each month according to your usage. Vastly increases the possibility of fraud and non-payment. Also means they don't get the money in advance to merrily cream the interest from. Raoul. |
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