Yes, yes yes.. I hear what you are saying and agree in princeple. But
pleading guilty means accepting that I actaully intended to comit the
"crime" of avaiding the payment to TFL of £1,20! (although, I was
still going to buy a full day travel card, but that does not count as I
understand). I do not want to accept something I did not do. An
administrative charge, however, of whatever amount is a totally
different matter. I believe the inspector was inexperienced or
incompetent or deliberatly deceptive (now I am beginning to think he
was envious or what not). But he certainly did not take "all
reasonable steps". I am afraid, I will have to see him in court to
talk about it.

Also, I have read now elsewhere that he could only ask for my name and
address, if I refused to pay on the spot.

Btw, there is a similar case now that was highlighted on BBC when a
woman had an Oyster card that did not read properly on a bus. I guess
she also made a "fatal" mistake of agreeing to pay the penalty before
she was asked to.

Thanks for your advice!

R

not knowing the law cannot be consiered, I believe

Thank you. I quote myself "Now, I know you've heard this many times
before...". So you did.

Thank you, Richard, this is a useful advice. First, I did not know that
a travel card in any zone is also valid on buses in all zones. This
will save me money in the future!

Second, I am actually inclined to agree with you, as my first reaction
to this letter was that I should plead guilty, but explain my
circumstances, attach the tickets I've had on the day and before and
other documents, and ask for a smaller fine. But when I called the
solicitor up, he said that it should be an administrative charge, not
criminal, because for a criminal offence you have to have aslo the
intention. And I intended to buy a ticket for the whole day. Now,
this maybe considered as nonsence (you are right to say, I also boarded
the bus without a ticket). As far as I remember, the logic I had was
"I rather pay extra £10 penalty to TFL, than 50p to the local shop for
nothing". At the time, for me, the expected utility of the first
outcome seemed greater. So, when "caught", I was happy to pay the
£10, and I would have bought the travel card anyway. Unfortunately, I
find myself being suspected of trying to "play the system". Ok, I can
prove in court I did not. But I need to decide my response. I'll talk
to another solicotor tomorrow.

many thanks!

R

ribonucleotide wrote:
Thank you, Richard, this is a useful advice.

You're welcome. Another piece of advice: I've just gone into
uk.transport.london to read any new messages, and am faced with four of
them from you with no indication of which messages you are replying to,
except that you included my name in one of them. Please quote
sufficient context of the message you are replying to, as many of us use
newsreaders which don't display the messages in the same way as Google
Groups.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

You maybe right that he did not take the payment becuase he could not
process a plastic card. I can't remember exactly now. I know the
conductors on the train have the facility. So, why can't the
inspectors have one? This is a bit strange, as I've just read the "new
fares" plan by Livingstone, where he is basically trying to discourage
cash payments. In US, not being able to accept a credit card would be
their problem, not mine. Well, the algorithm of how the inspectirs
work here and process fines seems to me a bit draconian, really.

R

I went to the tube station and bought the day travel card
(yes, including the zones where I was on the bus)

You needn't have bothered with the "extra" zones for the bus.
When you buy a travelcard for *any* combination of zones
it autmatically becomes valid on the bus in *all* zones.

"ribonucleotide" wrote in message
ups.com...

Now, year later I am receiving this fine of £100+ for a criminal
offence!

They could only manage that if you gave them your name and address.

Now, year later I am receiving this fine of £100+ for a criminal
offence! Luckily, I have a bad habit to forget throwing the tickets
away, and they get accumulated on a shelve in my house. I managed to
find the travel card I bought on that day as well as all travel cards
I bought in the weeks before and after the incident. I also have
records on my bank statements that I paid to TFL and when (it shows
that I bought the travel card 5 minutes after talking to the
inspector). I have consulted my solicitor, and he advised I should
plead not guilty in court, as I did not try to evade the payment, was
cooperative with the inspector and offered to pay the penalty on the
spot (oh, by the way, the inspector never asked me to pay one).

I, however, would like to ask what do you think my chances are? I have
no witnesses. I've never been in a situation like this. I feel a
victim,
and I am really frustrated with the conduct of the inspectors. I was
so naive! Those are right who say "never trust a man in a uniform".


You are going to have a hard time arguing this in court.


People of course come up with the lengthiest excuses when they get
caught - if they put a tiny proportion of that effort into buying a ticket
before travelling maybe they wouldn't land up in such a big mess.

I understand your situation and you probably are genuine, but consider this
for a moment. As suggested above, it would be surprising if a determined
fare dodger were to say "its a fair cop guv - I have been deliberately
defrauding TfL for a long time, thank you for catching me". It would be
rather more likely that he or she will give some sort of reason, perhaps
like the one you gave, to make it seem that he or he had simply failed to
pay a fare that day, rather than travelling free on a regular basis. Exactly
how, objectively, do you differentiate between a persistent fare dodger and
someone such as yourself in those circumstances?

J Lynch wrote:
I understand your situation and you probably are genuine, but consider this
for a moment. As suggested above, it would be surprising if a determined
fare dodger were to say "its a fair cop guv - I have been deliberately
defrauding TfL for a long time, thank you for catching me". It would be
rather more likely that he or she will give some sort of reason, perhaps
like the one you gave, to make it seem that he or he had simply failed to
pay a fare that day, rather than travelling free on a regular basis. Exactly
how, objectively, do you differentiate between a persistent fare dodger and
someone such as yourself in those circumstances?

This I understand. But I showed to the inspector a pack of travel
cards for each of the previous days. I have them here in front of me:
Day travel cards for January 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, week travel card up to
31 Jnr, and now travel card for 1 FBY (for which I paid extra 50p). I
also have here the card I bought on 2 FBY. I had these cards in my
wallet at the time, as they get accumulated there, and then I put them
on a shelve here (luckily, I have not thrown them away yet!). So, how
could the inspector not see this? Well, acually, I thought he did see
them and he simply decided to let me go. What I did not realise is
that they take your address to send you £100 fine. And this is really
disguisting.

R