Hello,

I am writing for you advice: I have just received a fine from TFL and
a court hearing for not producing a £1,20 ticket on a bendy bus. The
incident happened a year ago, and I believed the case has been
resolved long ago. Now, I know you've heard this many times before,
but I truly did not try to evade paying, and in this situation, I
offered to pay the penalty to the inspector. I believed, however,
that after hearing my circumstances, the inspector simply let me go.
Now, I have this fine, and I need your advice. Here are the details
of what's happened.

I usually cycle in London, but if I don't, then I buy a travel card in
the corner shop near the bus stop. There is no single cash point
within 1/2 mile off this bus stop. Day before the incident, I did not
have cash, so I bought the travel card using my credit card in the
shop. However, the shop charged me extra 50p for this! I put up with
this and went to work. Next day, when I approached the shop, I
realised that I did not have cash once again, and that again I would
be charged another 50p! I hated myself for not preparing the cash in
advance, but I was so busy in those days that cash was the last thing
on my mind. I was considering walking to the tube station when this
!%$! bendy bus pulled up and opened the doors. I thought I'd jump on
the bus and buy my travel card in the tube. I thought that in the
worst case, I would pay the penalty (all my plastic cards were with
me). Guess what happened next? Of course, on the arrival to the tube
station there was this swarm of inspectors, and so I got off the bus
with one of them and politely explained what's happened. I actually
showed the inspector my wallet where there was no cash, but there were
all these travel cards from previous days including the one 50p dearer
that I bought the day before. I admitted I was not entirely correct,
but I did not try to evade paying as I was about to buy the travel
card for the correct price. I agreed, however, to pay the penalty and
handed my credit card to the inspector. To my surprise, the inspector
gave it back to me and asked to tell him my name and address, which I
stupidly did. I asked him what was about the fine, but he replied
something like "Don't worry, they will write to you if they need to",
and
let me go. I was quite relieved as I thought the inspector was
reasonable and understood my circumstances. I went to the tube
station and bought the day travel card (yes, including the zones where
I was on the bus), and soon forgot about the incident.

Now, year later I am receiving this fine of £100+ for a criminal
offence! Luckily, I have a bad habit to forget throwing the tickets
away, and they get accumulated on a shelve in my house. I managed to
find the travel card I bought on that day as well as all travel cards
I bought in the weeks before and after the incident. I also have
records on my bank statements that I paid to TFL and when (it shows
that I bought the travel card 5 minutes after talking to the
inspector). I have consulted my solicitor, and he advised I should
plead not guilty in court, as I did not try to evade the payment, was
cooperative with the inspector and offered to pay the penalty on the
spot (oh, by the way, the inspector never asked me to pay one).

I, however, would like to ask what do you think my chances are? I have
no witnesses. I've never been in a situation like this. I feel a
victim,
and I am really frustrated with the conduct of the inspectors. I was
so naive! Those are right who say "never trust a man in a uniform".

I will be great to hear any advice.

Thank you

R

On 27 Oct 2005 13:28:27 -0700, ribonucleotide
wrote in . com:

let me go. I was quite relieved as I thought the inspector was
reasonable and understood my circumstances. I went to the tube
station and bought the day travel card (yes, including the zones where
I was on the bus), and soon forgot about the incident.

Something doesn't ring true. Any travelcard is valid on (almost)
any bus[1], so you need pay no extra for "zones on the bus".

[1]] And had been for much more than 12 miooonths.

--
Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. ] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

Hello,

Are you talking about a bus pass? I bought a day travel card to
continue my travel on the tube inside central London, but the bus route
was actually outside this zone, and the bus stop was on the boarder
between the zones. So, what I realised now, is that I could have
"saved" by buying just a tube return ticket if I wanted to. But thanks
for the question.

I do not need to convince myself about my intentions, but obviously I
am now paranoid about my ability to proove them. I simply cannot
afford thinking that anyone will simply "believe me".

thanks!

R

"ribonucleotide" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

I am writing for you advice: I have just received a fine from TFL and
a court hearing for not producing a £1,20 ticket on a bendy bus. The
incident happened a year ago, and I believed the case has been
resolved long ago. Now, I know you've heard this many times before,
but I truly did not try to evade paying, and in this situation, I
offered to pay the penalty to the inspector. I believed, however,
that after hearing my circumstances, the inspector simply let me go.
Now, I have this fine, and I need your advice. Here are the details
of what's happened.

I usually cycle in London, but if I don't, then I buy a travel card in
the corner shop near the bus stop. There is no single cash point
within 1/2 mile off this bus stop. Day before the incident, I did not
have cash, so I bought the travel card using my credit card in the
shop. However, the shop charged me extra 50p for this! I put up with
this and went to work. Next day, when I approached the shop, I
realised that I did not have cash once again, and that again I would
be charged another 50p! I hated myself for not preparing the cash in
advance, but I was so busy in those days that cash was the last thing
on my mind. I was considering walking to the tube station when this
!%$! bendy bus pulled up and opened the doors. I thought I'd jump on
the bus and buy my travel card in the tube. I thought that in the
worst case, I would pay the penalty (all my plastic cards were with
me). Guess what happened next? Of course, on the arrival to the tube
station there was this swarm of inspectors, and so I got off the bus
with one of them and politely explained what's happened. I actually
showed the inspector my wallet where there was no cash, but there were
all these travel cards from previous days including the one 50p dearer
that I bought the day before. I admitted I was not entirely correct,
but I did not try to evade paying as I was about to buy the travel
card for the correct price. I agreed, however, to pay the penalty and
handed my credit card to the inspector. To my surprise, the inspector
gave it back to me and asked to tell him my name and address, which I
stupidly did. I asked him what was about the fine, but he replied
something like "Don't worry, they will write to you if they need to",
and
let me go. I was quite relieved as I thought the inspector was
reasonable and understood my circumstances. I went to the tube
station and bought the day travel card (yes, including the zones where
I was on the bus), and soon forgot about the incident.

Now, year later I am receiving this fine of £100+ for a criminal
offence! Luckily, I have a bad habit to forget throwing the tickets
away, and they get accumulated on a shelve in my house. I managed to
find the travel card I bought on that day as well as all travel cards
I bought in the weeks before and after the incident. I also have
records on my bank statements that I paid to TFL and when (it shows
that I bought the travel card 5 minutes after talking to the
inspector). I have consulted my solicitor, and he advised I should
plead not guilty in court, as I did not try to evade the payment, was
cooperative with the inspector and offered to pay the penalty on the
spot (oh, by the way, the inspector never asked me to pay one).

I, however, would like to ask what do you think my chances are? I have
no witnesses. I've never been in a situation like this. I feel a
victim,
and I am really frustrated with the conduct of the inspectors. I was
so naive! Those are right who say "never trust a man in a uniform".

I will be great to hear any advice.

Thank you

R

You are going to have a hard time arguing this in court.

Quite simply, you need a valid ticket or pass to travel. You must purchase
this before you get on the bus (from a ticket shop or from a machine), or in
cash from the driver on board (unless you are boarding at a 'yellow' bus
stop in central London, where you must use the machine at the stop for cash
fares).

Payment is never accepted via Credit Card ON the bus. When you got on that
bus you did not have a means to pay.

If you want the luxury of paying for a ticket with a credit card then you
have to go to a ticket shop and pay the extra 50p. This extra fee is common
for many small purchases (not just tickets) as retailers get charged a fee
by card issuers which means that it's uneconomic to sell to you unless you
recompense them.

And it's not as if there weren't any alternatives where a little bit of
organisation on your part could have saved you a lot of grief. You could
have bought a book of saver tickets using your credit card the day before
(and used them as you went on buses) or of course you could have got an
Oyster Pre-Pay card.

And the inspector was just doing his job........

People of course come up with the lengthiest excuses when they get caught -
if they put a tiny proportion of that effort into buying a ticket before
travelling maybe they wouldn't land up in such a big mess.

Hmmm, that never occured to me! This is an interesting note. But I
really see no logic behind it - how my desire to pay at the first
opportunity leads him to believe I would only pay if challenged? It is
at least as likely as me being simply inexperienced in such situations,
and just doing what I thought I had to do. Oh, and please, don't
remind me about the stupid corner shop where it all started.

I am gutted...

R

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:18:01 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

Offering to pay the Penalty on the spot was a "fatal" mistake, and I
suspect *that* is why you were referred for prosecution.

That was one reason. I suspect another was admitting to the inspector
that he deliberately boarded the bus knowing he did not hold a valid
ticket...

On 27 Oct 2005 15:13:38 -0700, "ribonucleotide"
wrote:

Hmmm, that never occured to me! This is an interesting note. But I
really see no logic behind it - how my desire to pay at the first
opportunity leads him to believe I would only pay if challenged?

Some people try to play the system by never buying a ticket and just
paying the penalty whenever caught - in some areas the inspection rate
is so low that this strategy works out cheaper. It appears, from
various stories such as yours, that inspectors are trained to pursue a
prosecution against anyone who seems a bit too eager to pay the
penalty. You are by no means the first "honest" person to get caught
out by this.

ribonucleotide wrote:
Hello,

Are you talking about a bus pass? I bought a day travel card to
continue my travel on the tube inside central London, but the bus
route was actually outside this zone, and the bus stop was on the
boarder between the zones. So, what I realised now, is that I
could have "saved" by buying just a tube return ticket if I wanted
to.

I don't understand that last sentence. A tube return ticket has no
validity on buses, but any Travelcard, whatever zones it is valid for,
gives you unlimited bus travel for that day in all zones.

I am very surprised that your solicitor advised you to plead not guilty.
You travelled on a bendy bus without a valid ticket, without the means
to buy one at the bus stop, and without the means to pay a penalty fare
to a revenue inspector (as they don't take credit cards). So not only is
that a clear violation of regulations, but your mitigating plea that you
offered to pay a penalty fare is worthless because you had no cash to
pay it. I am not a lawyer, but I would have thought a not-guilty plea
in those circumstances would be likely to attract a heavier fine.

My advice would be to plead guilty, briefly explain the circumstances,
demonstrate that you normally bought Travelcards (and did so afterwards
on this occasion), and give a grovelling apology.

Does your solicitor have any experience of such cases? You *did* evade
payment at the time you boarded the bus, and your offer to pay the
penalty fare "on the spot" could not have been fulfilled, so his
reasoning is crazy.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On 27 Oct 2005 13:28:27 -0700, "ribonucleotide"
wrote:

I, however, would like to ask what do you think my chances are? I have
no witnesses. I've never been in a situation like this. I feel a
victim,
and I am really frustrated with the conduct of the inspectors. I was
so naive! Those are right who say "never trust a man in a uniform".

Why do you feel like a victim? It was inconvenient for you to buy a
ticket. So you didn't. You got caught. Fair cop.

On 27 Oct 2005 15:13:38 -0700, "ribonucleotide"
wrote:

Hmmm, that never occured to me! This is an interesting note. But I
really see no logic behind it - how my desire to pay at the first
opportunity leads him to believe I would only pay if challenged? It is
at least as likely as me being simply inexperienced in such situations,
and just doing what I thought I had to do. Oh, and please, don't
remind me about the stupid corner shop where it all started.


Don't be a prat. The first opportunity was BEFORE you got on the bus.
Not when you saw an inspector.

I am gutted...

So counter-sue for being caused stress and made unhappy. If you can
get Cherie Blair on the case, you might even win.