|
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets allowed a
break of journey on the return journey. How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules. They claimed today the ticket only allows one tube journey, though the barrier staff let me through anyway. The gate code was 51 (Already used for 1 journey (single) or 2 journeys (return)) at entry and exit when I resumed my journey. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets allowed a
break of journey on the return journey. How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules. From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15). "Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a Travelcard." G. |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
|
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
|
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
|
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
In article ,
(Laurence Payne) wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 00:37 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets allowed a break of journey on the return journey. How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules. They claimed today the ticket only allows one tube journey, though the barrier staff let me through anyway. The gate code was 51 (Already used for 1 journey (single) or 2 journeys (return)) at entry and exit when I resumed my journey. Colin - just admit it. Tfl and LUL know you hate them, and they hate you in return. Get a car. I have a car. It's unusable for journeys like the one I was making. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
|
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
|
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes I have a car. It's unusable for journeys like the one I was making. How so, about five or six times a year I travel from the Lake District to Wandsworth (through Putney) then park up and use my Oyster, until I leave the GLA again in my car. If I can do it, and I'm not informed about London items because of my distance from the Capital, so can you. Or is it just a whinge against big brother and someone finding out where you've been, spending tax-payers money? Come clean now, what are you hiding? You'll feel better when you've got it off your chest. -- Clive |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
In message , at
00:37:00 on Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Colin Rosenstiel remarked: I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets allowed a break of journey on the return journey. How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules. They claimed today the ticket only allows one tube journey, though the barrier staff let me through anyway. The gate code was 51 (Already used for 1 journey (single) or 2 journeys (return)) at entry and exit when I resumed my journey. I've had a similar problem. I forget the exact details, but probably it was using the return half of the saver to catch a tube train (to the central London national rail station) on the day after the ticket was issued. ie 30 whole days before it might have expired. -- Roland Perry |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
Paul Corfield wrote:
(snip) You are entitled to one full journey on LUL on the outward and return legs. The only way you could "break" a journey is at an out of station interchange where the gates are configured to allow such a break but with a time limit in place. -- Paul C Out of interest, do you know how long that time limit is? I presume the same time limit applies for Oyster Pre-Pay in similar out-of-staion interchange situations? I've also wondered if Oyster Pre-Pay allows for such out-of-station interchanges at more locations than paper ticketing would. An example - I recently travelled from Harrow & Wealdstone to Euston (on Silverlink), then on south via the Northern Line to Balham. I was pleased to see the following when I checked my Oyster journey history on a Tube ticket machine... Harrow & Wealdstone - Euston Harrow & Wealdstone - Balham .... i.e. the whole journey of Harrow & Wealdstone to Balham had been treated as one. I've never done the aforementioned journey on a £3.80 tube single ticket but if I did I would fear that it'd be swallowed by the ticket gates at Euston with the presumption that I'd completed my journey. |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
On 1 Nov 2005 10:54:53 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:
Colin - just admit it. Tfl and LUL know you hate them, and they hate you in return. Get a car. Ha ha! Though do bear in mind that car travel in London is not out of TfL's reach, what with congestion charging, trunk routes and all traffic lights in Greater London managed by TfL Street Management, red routes administered by TfL and patrolled by TfL funded Met Police traffic wardens, bus lane enforcement, the Woolwich ferry... Ok yeah. They'll still get him. I was just lulling him into a false sense of security :-) |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets
allowed a break of journey on the return journey. How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules. From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15). "Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a Travelcard." Oh sh*t! :-) I only became aware of it because I was using a tube between Farringdon and Liverpool Street and decided to hop off at Moorgate to pop into M&S. As Moorgate is extremely close to Liverpool Street I had no intention of resuming my journey on the tube. My gate pass would not operate the exit gates at Moorgate. Fair enough I suppose though I can't see what there would be to lose by it allowing me to exit but not to enter again. |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 17:27:29 +0000 (UTC), wrote: That's correct - you have never been able to break your journey on the 'tube' leg of a NR ticket, it's only available for one underground trip. And I think it says something to that effect on the back of (all/most?) NR tickets. Not exactly, hence the confusion. What the ticket in question says is this (it had a + on the face): "Travel on Train Companies trains is subject to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage and to the conditions of carriage of other operators on whose services this ticket is valid." [LUL's in this case, I presume] "This ticket is not transferable. Unless otherwise stated it may be used on any Train Company's trains by any Permitted Route, and if marked "+" on London Underground trains between train company stations via any recognised route appropriate to the through journey being made but is _not_ available for joining or alighting at an intermediate LRT Underground station." This would all be entirely clear were the destination not Underground zones 1 and 2, which is not a train company station. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
|
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
|
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
|
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
In article ,
(James Farrar) wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Graham J) wrote: I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets allowed a break of journey on the return journey. How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules. From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15). "Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a Travelcard." Oh sh*t! Of course, you will now volunteer to pay the Penalty Fare for the journey you made without a valid ticket. The staff (plural) I spoke to accepted that it was a valid ticket. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
You are entitled to one full journey on LUL on the outward and return
legs. The only way you could "break" a journey is at an out of station interchange where the gates are configured to allow such a break but with a time limit in place. Out of interest, do you know how long that time limit is? I presume the same time limit applies for Oyster Pre-Pay in similar out-of-staion interchange situations? I've also wondered if Oyster Pre-Pay allows for such out-of-station interchanges at more locations than paper ticketing would. Aldgate Fenchurch Street becomes a single journey on Oyster but Bank Fenchurch Street does not, which is odd as I seem to remember Bank being a valid station for tube X-London transfer. The time limit has been long enough for me to sit and have lunch at Paddington between changing from H&C to Circle and still count as one journey. It must be at least an hour. |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 02:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: I've had that trouble at Goodge Street once. I went back to Euston and exited there. Your Moorgate problem sounds odd as it is a NR station, though. My experience suggests LU doesn't insist on you exiting at the right NR station for your journey. At Moorgate, you don't reach NR by exiting the station - the interchanges are all internal. |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (James Farrar) wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Graham J) wrote: I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets allowed a break of journey on the return journey. How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules. From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15). "Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a Travelcard." Oh sh*t! Of course, you will now volunteer to pay the Penalty Fare for the journey you made without a valid ticket. The staff (plural) I spoke to accepted that it was a valid ticket. In an ideal world the staff would all be clued up, but alas the railways are not an ideal world... |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
"Graham J" wrote in message ... I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets allowed a break of journey on the return journey. How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules. From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15). "Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a Travelcard." Oh sh*t! :-) I only became aware of it because I was using a tube between Farringdon and Liverpool Street and decided to hop off at Moorgate to pop into M&S. As Moorgate is extremely close to Liverpool Street I had no intention of resuming my journey on the tube. My gate pass would not operate the exit gates at Moorgate. Fair enough I suppose though I can't see what there would be to lose by it allowing me to exit but not to enter again. It's on Clive's list as a valid interchange station: http://www.davros.org/rail/routeing-guide.html ISTM that for pax travelling to LivSt south on the Northern line, exiting at Moorgate and walking is easier than changing at Bank tim |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
On 1 Nov 2005 13:13:36 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote: (snip) You are entitled to one full journey on LUL on the outward and return legs. The only way you could "break" a journey is at an out of station interchange where the gates are configured to allow such a break but with a time limit in place. Out of interest, do you know how long that time limit is? I knew someone would ask. I know what it used to be for OSIs but I understand that it has been amended to deal with pre-pay issues such as the one below. I can't recall what the new time limit. I presume the same time limit applies for Oyster Pre-Pay in similar out-of-staion interchange situations? I believe you would be right. I've also wondered if Oyster Pre-Pay allows for such out-of-station interchanges at more locations than paper ticketing would. An example - I recently travelled from Harrow & Wealdstone to Euston (on Silverlink), then on south via the Northern Line to Balham. I was pleased to see the following when I checked my Oyster journey history on a Tube ticket machine... Harrow & Wealdstone - Euston Harrow & Wealdstone - Balham Which is, of course, correct and demonstrates how much more complex the ticketing logic needs to be to deal with the permutations that are possible. Now scale it up for pre-pay for all of NR in London! ... i.e. the whole journey of Harrow & Wealdstone to Balham had been treated as one. I've never done the aforementioned journey on a £3.80 tube single ticket but if I did I would fear that it'd be swallowed by the ticket gates at Euston with the presumption that I'd completed my journey. I think you would get a ticket reject at Euston because LU fares are not available for paper tickets from H&W while pre-pay fares are IIRC. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:18:06 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote: You are entitled to one full journey on LUL on the outward and return legs. The only way you could "break" a journey is at an out of station interchange where the gates are configured to allow such a break but with a time limit in place. Out of interest, do you know how long that time limit is? I knew someone would ask. I know what it used to be for OSIs but I understand that it has been amended to deal with pre-pay issues such as the one below. I can't recall what the new time limit. I presume the same time limit applies for Oyster Pre-Pay in similar out-of-staion interchange situations? I believe you would be right. It strikes me that it might need to be different at different locations. I'm particularly thinking of journeys like the reverse of the one below, where you could have to wait on the concourse at Euston for up to half an hour before going through the barriers to board your fast train to Harrow & Wealdstone. At Marylebone on Sundays there's only 1tph to the Amersham line (and you can't really go through the barriers until the platform is announced, shortly before departure). OK so it's unlikely anyone would end up waiting for the full hour, but it shows that you can't easily define a maximum interchange time. OTOH, at a Tube interchange like KX, or going in the other direction (Euston NR to Euston Tube), 15 minutes would be more than plenty. Incidentally, if you arrived at the NR concourse to find a long wait ahead (e.g. if your train was cancelled), is there any way you could decide to continue your journey by Tube instead without being charged for a new journey? (At Euston you might be able resume from Euston Square, but what about, say, Marylebone?) I've also wondered if Oyster Pre-Pay allows for such out-of-station interchanges at more locations than paper ticketing would. An example - I recently travelled from Harrow & Wealdstone to Euston (on Silverlink), then on south via the Northern Line to Balham. I was pleased to see the following when I checked my Oyster journey history on a Tube ticket machine... Harrow & Wealdstone - Euston Harrow & Wealdstone - Balham Which is, of course, correct and demonstrates how much more complex the ticketing logic needs to be to deal with the permutations that are possible. Now scale it up for pre-pay for all of NR in London! ... i.e. the whole journey of Harrow & Wealdstone to Balham had been treated as one. I've never done the aforementioned journey on a £3.80 tube single ticket but if I did I would fear that it'd be swallowed by the ticket gates at Euston with the presumption that I'd completed my journey. It'd be nice if there was a list available of all the out-of-station interchanges. IMHO information like this should be made available to passengers, as it's a fairly opaque part of the ticketing system, and it would make their journeys easier without having to worry about being charged twice. Does anyone have one? Some of them are less than obvious (e.g. Baker Street to Marylebone NR). |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote: On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 02:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: I've had that trouble at Goodge Street once. I went back to Euston and exited there. Your Moorgate problem sounds odd as it is a NR station, though. My experience suggests LU doesn't insist on you exiting at the right NR station for your journey. At Moorgate, you don't reach NR by exiting the station - the interchanges are all internal. OIC. Never used the interchange. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
In article . com,
(Mizter T) wrote: Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (James Farrar) wrote: On Tue, 1 Nov 2005 19:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Graham J) wrote: I thought National Rail terms and conditions on Saver tickets allowed a break of journey on the return journey. How come LUL don't appear to agree that where the saver is to Underground Zones 1 and 2, issued by One at Cambridge? WAGN staff I checked with confirmed my recollection of the rules. From the 'Conditions of Carriage' (1.C.15). "Please note that a ticket which entitles you to travel on the London Underground does not entitle you to break and resume your journey at any of its stations unless it is a season ticket or a Travelcard." Oh sh*t! Of course, you will now volunteer to pay the Penalty Fare for the journey you made without a valid ticket. The staff (plural) I spoke to accepted that it was a valid ticket. In an ideal world the staff would all be clued up, but alas the railways are not an ideal world... So it would appear. I'm not likely to make the same journey again. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
Paul Corfield wrote:
On 1 Nov 2005 13:13:36 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote: (snip) I've also wondered if Oyster Pre-Pay allows for such out-of-station interchanges at more locations than paper ticketing would. An example - I recently travelled from Harrow & Wealdstone to Euston (on Silverlink), then on south via the Northern Line to Balham. I was pleased to see the following when I checked my Oyster journey history on a Tube ticket machine... Harrow & Wealdstone - Euston Harrow & Wealdstone - Balham Which is, of course, correct and demonstrates how much more complex the ticketing logic needs to be to deal with the permutations that are possible. Now scale it up for pre-pay for all of NR in London! And presumably why when (if!) Pre Pay comes to NR, it will be on the basis of a zonal fares system (which wouldn't necessarily have to be the same fares as the Tube). I always cringe at those who suggest the current route-by-route NR fare structure could be handled by Pre Pay, the complexity would be horrendous (and the passenger confusion would be pretty bad too). ... i.e. the whole journey of Harrow & Wealdstone to Balham had been treated as one. I've never done the aforementioned journey on a £3.80 tube single ticket but if I did I would fear that it'd be swallowed by the ticket gates at Euston with the presumption that I'd completed my journey. I think you would get a ticket reject at Euston because LU fares are not available for paper tickets from H&W while pre-pay fares are IIRC. Doh! I forgot about that, what with H&W to Kenton being AIUI the sole example on the LU network of where NR/LUL printed ticketing is not interavailable (hence H&W to Euston not being valid on a LU printed ticket) OK, if I adjust my example a little, still using the DC lines (the joint Bakerloo/ Silverlink Metro line) - if I went from Wembley Central to Euston then on southwards to Balham on the Northern line, this is what I'd see on the Journey History screen... Wembley Central - Euston Wembley Central - Balham But would I be able to complete the same journey on a printed ticket? I reckon I should be able to, but I'd be anxious that the automatic gates at Euston would retain it, under the logic that my ticket was a Zone 1-4 single and I'd just completed a journey from Zone 4 into Zone 1. Paul C Thanks for the rest of your reply. |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
On 3 Nov 2005 05:39:01 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote: I think you would get a ticket reject at Euston because LU fares are not available for paper tickets from H&W while pre-pay fares are IIRC. Doh! I forgot about that, what with H&W to Kenton being AIUI the sole example on the LU network of where NR/LUL printed ticketing is not interavailable (hence H&W to Euston not being valid on a LU printed ticket) OK, if I adjust my example a little, still using the DC lines (the joint Bakerloo/ Silverlink Metro line) - if I went from Wembley Central to Euston then on southwards to Balham on the Northern line, this is what I'd see on the Journey History screen... Wembley Central - Euston Wembley Central - Balham But would I be able to complete the same journey on a printed ticket? I reckon I should be able to, but I'd be anxious that the automatic gates at Euston would retain it, under the logic that my ticket was a Zone 1-4 single and I'd just completed a journey from Zone 4 into Zone 1. Yes you would be able to because both "sides" of Euston should be configured as a OSI to deal with the fact that LUL fares are valid on Tube and NR services either "side" of the gatelines. A LUL issued SOO (station of origin) ticket should work the same as a TOC issued ticket. For Harrow and Wealdstone the LU issued ticket would have to be SOD (Station of Destination) format and coding. These are technicalities in the ticket types and coding and work in different ways in the gates. Too complex to explain here but the gates can deal with the differential validities arising from the rules. It should be imperceptible to the passenger. Same as for Liverpool St or Fenchurch St where LUL station of origin tickets and fares apply to Stratford or Barking / Upminster. Note that Liv St has to deal with tickets to all three destinations given the occasional use of that terminal by C2C trains. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Terms and conditions on Saver tickets
On 3 Nov 2005 05:39:01 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:
But would I be able to complete the same journey on a printed ticket? I reckon I should be able to, but I'd be anxious that the automatic gates at Euston would retain it, under the logic that my ticket was a Zone 1-4 single and I'd just completed a journey from Zone 4 into Zone 1. Such anxiety ought to be unnecessary - it's a result of a lack of information being made available to passengers. This is why I think a list of permitted out-of-station interchanges should be made available. |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 02:12 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2006 LondonBanter.co.uk