On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 01:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:


My Cambridge to Underground Zones 1 & 2 tickets don't get eaten at East
Putney which is much more baffling.

It's eminently logical actually. The ticket has two validities - one LU
and one NR. A LU gate only looks at the LU bit. It cannot know whether
you have had your ride on NR before entering LU or if the NR trip is
after leaving LU. Therefore the gate has to give you the benefit of the
doubt and return the ticket once it has done what it needs to do in
respect of the LU validity. Simple.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 01:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),

(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

My Cambridge to Underground Zones 1 & 2 tickets don't get eaten at
East Putney which is much more baffling.

It's eminently logical actually. The ticket has two validities - one
LU and one NR. A LU gate only looks at the LU bit. It cannot know
whether you have had your ride on NR before entering LU or if the NR
trip is after leaving LU. Therefore the gate has to give you the
benefit of the doubt and return the ticket once it has done what it
needs to do in respect of the LU validity. Simple.

Huh? It's an NR to LUL ticket so when it gets to an exit gate that's the
LU journey done and therefore the whole journey done, surely?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

My Cambridge to Underground Zones 1 & 2 tickets don't get eaten at
East Putney which is much more baffling.

Only because you've forgotten the answer! This was covered in a thread
you initiated here in January 2003, which included these two
explanations:

From Clive Feather, 7 Jan 2003:
"The magnetic code contains a common portion, an LU portion, and a
National Rail porton. To a first approximation, LU gates don't
understand the NR bit of the ticket and vice versa; they'll simply note
that both parts are marked active and play safe, giving you the ticket
back."

From Paul Corfield, 6 Jan 2003:
"Any ticket with any National Rail validity will always be given back.
The gate cannot know if you have used the NR validity or even if it is
"beyond" the exit point of the gate itself - e.g. you used the NR bit
between Cambridge and London but the ticket isn't reset to reflect this.
You then enter the LUL system and record an entry. The gate at East
Putney says "has this ticket got the right validity from where it
entered (LUL) to where I am? Oh yes that's OK. Oh look this has some NR
validity - don't know where but I'd better give the ticket back in case
that's the next bit of the journey". "

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....7659a88aadfe9/

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 22:15:34 +0100, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:

What would happen if you refused to be checked? If you told them you
just
entered from the surface, and were leaving on another exit?

Well if they'd just seen you pass through the exit gates or you emerged
from
a direction where there were only exit gates then I should imagine
they'd
be
disinclined to believe you.

As the machine keep the used tickets, what proof of payment
do they expect you to have?

The barriers at KXStP don't eat the tickets - it's an out-of-station
interchange.

I thought that you had to exit at specific barriers for this
to happen?

In any case, the barriers can probably be set to return all tickets -
I once noticed my single ticket didn't get swallowed when leaving the
last station before a section of line closed for engineering works,
and assumed this was so that passengers could keep their tickets to
use on the replacement buses.

A pax expecting his ticket to be kept by the machine could
easily walk through and not pick it up.

tim

"Mal" wrote in message
...
Its easy to get a ticket out the gates after its taken it. It doesn't drop
into the bin until after about 20 others have been put in. A few questions
about where you purchased, how much, when etc would easily identify your
ticket if needed.

But this is unrealistic.

Stopping pax after they have exited the barrier, asessing whether
their story rings true and then opening up the barrier to recover the
ticket if not happy, is a stupid way for revenue control to work.
Putting the inspectors inside the barriers is much easier.

tim



Mal

"tim (moved to sweden)" wrote in message
...

"Graham J" wrote in message
...
I can't quite understand what they were checking though, as everyone
they stopped had already gone through the exit barrier with their
Oyster - and they were asking to scan them. They didn't seem to care
about those, like me, with paper tickets.

Excuse me, possibly stupid: How far does LU reserve the right to check
your
ticket after passing the gates or leaving a bus? Honestly, after I
passed
the gates I would have thought I left their area of control.

I'd agree with that when it comes to having left a bus, but they have
the
right to ask to inspect your ticket anywhere on LU premises.

What would happen if you refused to be checked? If you told them you
just
entered from the surface, and were leaving on another exit?

Well if they'd just seen you pass through the exit gates or you emerged
from
a direction where there were only exit gates then I should imagine
they'd be
disinclined to believe you.

As the machine keep the used tickets, what proof of payment
do they expect you to have?

tim

tim (moved to sweden) wrote:
"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 22:15:34 +0100, "tim \(moved to sweden\)"
wrote:

As the machine keep the used tickets, what proof of payment
do they expect you to have?

The barriers at KXStP don't eat the tickets - it's an
out-of-station interchange.

I thought that you had to exit at specific barriers for this
to happen?

In any case, the barriers can probably be set to return all
tickets - I once noticed my single ticket didn't get swallowed
when leaving the last station before a section of line closed
for engineering works, and assumed this was so that passengers
could keep their tickets to use on the replacement buses.

A pax expecting his ticket to be kept by the machine could
easily walk through and not pick it up.

No, he couldn't. If the ticket is being returned, the gate doesn't open
until the ticket is retrieved by the passenger.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

tim (moved to sweden) wrote:

A pax expecting his ticket to be kept by the machine could
easily walk through and not pick it up.

Not that easily. Last time I wasn't expecting my ticket to come back I
had the gate close on me and force one thumb nail into my other hand...
bleeding

In article ,
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 01:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

My Cambridge to Underground Zones 1 & 2 tickets don't get eaten at
East Putney which is much more baffling.

It's eminently logical actually. The ticket has two validities -
one LU and one NR. A LU gate only looks at the LU bit. It cannot
know whether you have had your ride on NR before entering LU or if
the NR trip is after leaving LU. Therefore the gate has to give you
the benefit of the doubt and return the ticket once it has done what
it needs to do in respect of the LU validity. Simple.

Huh? It's an NR to LUL ticket so when it gets to an exit gate that's
the LU journey done and therefore the whole journey done, surely?

And why does a ticket (e.g. a Saver Return) to Putney (SWT) cost so much
more than one to Underground Zones 1 and 2?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
And why does a ticket (e.g. a Saver Return) to Putney (SWT) cost so much
more than one to Underground Zones 1 and 2?

That annoys me too! I think to Putney we pay three bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer
3. London - Putney

Wheras to East Putney we pay two bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer

It's an irritating pricing structure because there are many journeys
from the Putney area to Central London which are much quicker and much
less congested as Train + Tube rather than Tube + Tube + Tube. But the
quicker and less congested one costs about twice as much

Chris

In article .com,
(Chris!) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
And why does a ticket (e.g. a Saver Return) to Putney (SWT) cost so
much
more than one to Underground Zones 1 and 2?

That annoys me too! I think to Putney we pay three bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer
3. London - Putney

Wheras to East Putney we pay two bits:
1. - London
2. Cross London tube transfer

It's an irritating pricing structure because there are many journeys
from the Putney area to Central London which are much quicker and much
less congested as Train + Tube rather than Tube + Tube + Tube. But
the quicker and less congested one costs about twice as much

Indeed. So when is Ken going to sort this out?

--
Colin Rosenstiel