Chris Read wrote:

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner

What's the logic in extending Z6 to Epsom Downs and Tattenham Corner, but
not to Epsom? Are there particular difficulties caused by Southern
'sharing
the flow' from Epsom with SWT?

Not sure but there's also a different district council involved which
*might* be a factor.

matt wrote:

If Ken wants Greater London to use the M25 as THE boundary he will
have to include those areas and, I suspect, the political forces will
not want upset the current cosy voting pattern - god forbid that the
blue rinses of Walton & Weybridge should have a say in the election
of the Greater London assembly and the mayor of London. I can just
imagine some candidate saying (to paraphrase Patrica Hughit -
patronising old bag) "this electorate is too middle class".

File under "good idea - not politically acceptable".

Maybe if they did, Ken could extend the Congestion Charge Zone to
everything within the M25 ? (and maybe include the anti-clockwise
carriageway of the M25 :-)

I can just see Ashtead and Leatherhead jumping for the joy at this prospect!

At the moment there is a real concern that any Greater London wide
congestion charge could cause problems in Surrey, not least for Epsom &
Ewell as a lot of roads cross the bit of Kingston that sticks out. Forcing
traversing motorists to go round on roads that aren't designed for rat runs
would be a nightmare.

Chris Read

I think it must have been. IIRC, the zones for NLL stations were fiddled
some time ago to ensure that it was necessary to hold a 2-zone ticket
(Zones
2 and 3) for most journeys - even so, if there are any commuters between
North Woolwich and Kew Gardens they get a bargain, as long as they don't
decamp at West Ham and go the rest of tHe way by LUL District Line.

If there are any commuters between North Woolwich and Kew Gardens, they
deserve a medal as well as a bargain. Seventy minutes commuting could get
them from London to Grantham, Chippenham or Ipswich, rather than 20 miles
through the back gardens of the less salubrious bits of north London.

It's not quite North Greenwich, but when I go to the PRO I often use
Stratford-Kew Gardens. Can I apply? ;-)

In article , (Tim Roll-Pickering) wrote:

Chris Read wrote:

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner

What's the logic in extending Z6 to Epsom Downs and Tattenham
Corner, but not to Epsom? Are there particular difficulties caused
by Southern 'sharing the flow' from Epsom with SWT?

Not sure but there's also a different district council involved which
*might* be a factor.

Hardly so. The Public Transport authority will be Surrey County Council.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner

What's the logic in extending Z6 to Epsom Downs and Tattenham
Corner, but not to Epsom? Are there particular difficulties caused
by Southern 'sharing the flow' from Epsom with SWT?

Not sure but there's also a different district council involved which
*might* be a factor.

Hardly so. The Public Transport authority will be Surrey County Council.

True formally, though the fears some in Epsom & Ewell, including but not
just borough councillors, hold about anything that looks like the next step
towards incorporating Epsom into Greater London should not be
underestimated.

One other point is that never to my recollection have Epsom and Epsom Downs
been treated as "Epsom stations" with tickets valid for either and they
really can't be used as an interchange in any meaningful sense (unlike, say,
Canterburys East & West). Epsom Downs serves a combination of semi-rural
suburbs and a school and has always had separate fares from Epsom.

Also just Southern extending Zone 6 to Epsom would create the problem that
one Ewell station would be within the zone and the other wouldn't - and I
think there has been a "Ewell stations" use in fares. Plus it's debatable as
to whether Epsom alone on the South West Trains network should be
incorporated - what about some parts of the Cobham line or Shepperton? - and
equally should the zone stop at Epsom or carry on to Ashtead (still in the
M25), Leatherhead (occasional terminus) or even Dorking?! This is of a
different order to two backwater branches.

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:04:40 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:


I can just see Ashtead and Leatherhead jumping for the joy at this prospect!


Well, Leatherhead is already served by TfL bus 465 with London fares
applying.

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner

What's the logic in extending Z6 to Epsom Downs and Tattenham
Corner, but not to Epsom? Are there particular difficulties caused
by Southern 'sharing the flow' from Epsom with SWT?

Not sure but there's also a different district council involved which
*might* be a factor.

Hardly so. The Public Transport authority will be Surrey County Council.

True formally, though the fears some in Epsom & Ewell, including but not
just borough councillors, hold about anything that looks like the next step
towards incorporating Epsom into Greater London should not be
underestimated.

One other point is that never to my recollection have Epsom and Epsom Downs
been treated as "Epsom stations" with tickets valid for either and they
really can't be used as an interchange in any meaningful sense (unlike, say,
Canterburys East & West). Epsom Downs serves a combination of semi-rural
suburbs and a school and has always had separate fares from Epsom.

Also just Southern extending Zone 6 to Epsom would create the problem that
one Ewell station would be within the zone and the other wouldn't - and I
think there has been a "Ewell stations" use in fares.

How long has this been the case? I once tried to get to Ewell East but
never made it there, as the line was closed between Croydon and Sutton
because of trackwork (and because Connex had lost SouthCentral they
failed to mention it on their information poster and map...)
The next day I went there via Ewell West, and the fare was much higher.

Plus it's debatable as
to whether Epsom alone on the South West Trains network should be
incorporated - what about some parts of the Cobham line or Shepperton? - and
equally should the zone stop at Epsom or carry on to Ashtead (still in the
M25), Leatherhead (occasional terminus) or even Dorking?! This is of a
different order to two backwater branches.

AFAIK there's no final goal - just zones that occasionally incorporate
other places. Shepperton may get incorporated in the next round of
expansion. Meanwhile you can get a bus if you want to travel to
Leatherhead (or even Dorking) on a travelcard.

Aidan Stanger wrote:

One other point is that never to my recollection have Epsom and Epsom
Downs
been treated as "Epsom stations" with tickets valid for either and they
really can't be used as an interchange in any meaningful sense (unlike,
say,
Canterburys East & West). Epsom Downs serves a combination of semi-rural
suburbs and a school and has always had separate fares from Epsom.

Also just Southern extending Zone 6 to Epsom would create the problem
that
one Ewell station would be within the zone and the other wouldn't - and I
think there has been a "Ewell stations" use in fares.

How long has this been the case? I once tried to get to Ewell East but
never made it there, as the line was closed between Croydon and Sutton
because of trackwork (and because Connex had lost SouthCentral they
failed to mention it on their information poster and map...)
The next day I went there via Ewell West, and the fare was much higher.

I honestly don't know as I've never bought a ticket for either - on the few
occasions I've got off there it's been on a season ticket.

Though wasn't the Hackbridge line running as an alternative?

Plus it's debatable as
to whether Epsom alone on the South West Trains network should be
incorporated - what about some parts of the Cobham line or Shepperton? -
and
equally should the zone stop at Epsom or carry on to Ashtead (still in
the
M25), Leatherhead (occasional terminus) or even Dorking?! This is of a
different order to two backwater branches.

AFAIK there's no final goal - just zones that occasionally incorporate
other places. Shepperton may get incorporated in the next round of
expansion. Meanwhile you can get a bus if you want to travel to
Leatherhead (or even Dorking) on a travelcard.

Which route is this and from where? I always shunned buses

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Aidan Stanger wrote:

How long has this been the case? I once tried to get to Ewell East but
never made it there, as the line was closed between Croydon and Sutton
because of trackwork (and because Connex had lost SouthCentral they
failed to mention it on their information poster and map...)
The next day I went there via Ewell West, and the fare was much higher.

I honestly don't know as I've never bought a ticket for either - on the few
occasions I've got off there it's been on a season ticket.

Though wasn't the Hackbridge line running as an alternative?

Yes it was, but I didn't notice the problem until I'd got to Croydon and
just missed a 726 express bus.

Plus it's debatable as to whether Epsom alone on the South West Trains
network should be incorporated - what about some parts of the Cobham
line or Shepperton? - and equally should the zone stop at Epsom or
carry on to Ashtead (still in the M25), Leatherhead (occasional
terminus) or even Dorking?! This is of a different order to two
backwater branches.

AFAIK there's no final goal - just zones that occasionally incorporate
other places. Shepperton may get incorporated in the next round of
expansion. Meanwhile you can get a bus if you want to travel to
Leatherhead (or even Dorking) on a travelcard.

Which route is this and from where? I always shunned buses

465. I got it from Chessington South, but I thought it started at
Kingston. However, I the bus map I've just looked at shows it starting
at Fulwell (though it may have changed, as the map is old).

--
Aidan Stanger
http://www.bettercrossrail.co.uk

In message , Aidan Stanger
writes

465. I got it from Chessington South, but I thought it started at
Kingston. However, I the bus map I've just looked at shows it starting
at Fulwell (though it may have changed, as the map is old).

The 465 is currently Fulwell to Dorking, but it is to be cut back to run
from Kingston to Dorking as from next May (with a new route covering
much of the Fulwell-Kingston part).

I think the route proved too long for reliability, especially with the
congestion at the northern end - the change follows Tellings Golden
Miller selling their bus division to National Express.
--
Paul Terry