How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ?

Mike

maf writes
How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail
connection ? It would reduce M25 load,*wouldn't it ?

I believe that all it needs is a small section of track to link the GWML
to the WLL to enable through running.

This would mean that trains from Heathrow would follow the existing
route towards Paddington as far as the Eurostar train depot. A link to
the Willesden-Clapham Junction would then allow trains to follow the
route taken by the existing Willesden Junction-Clapham Junction &
Watford-Brighton via Gatwick trains.

Problem then would be fitting them in amongst all the existing services,
which won't be easy.

--
Dave

maf wrote:

How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail
connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ?

Why Croydon?

The Southall to Waste Transfer Station branch virtually connects with
the SR Hounslow loop. A connection there and another (or a reverse) at
Clapham Junction, and you're done.

But I think you need something more direct, which would cost more. As
things are at present, we may not even get all LHR terminals connected
by a single line (i.e. no reversal or change).

Should that be achieved, Heathrow and Luton could be connected via
Uxbridge and Watford, mostly using existing or former lines.

I suspect more new track would be needed for a direct route to Gatwick -
but this would mean the line could be faster. With a 30 minute journey
time, you could destroy the argument for a 3rd runway at LHR by allowing
the two airports to be treated as one for flight connections. I don't
know whether such a railway would be cheaper than the 3rd runway - how
much will 40 Km of CTRL cost?

Of course, if Cliffe were built on the CTRL, connections from half of
Europe could be made as quickly by rail as by air, which would be good
for the planet.

Colin McKenzie

In article , Dave
writes
How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail
connection ? It would reduce M25 load,*wouldn't it ?
I believe that all it needs is a small section of track to link the
GWML to the WLL to enable through running.

There's already a link a bit further west, travelling via Willesden.

Problem then would be fitting them in amongst all the existing
services, which won't be easy.

Exactly.

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

"David Randles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
maf wrote:
How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail
connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ?

Quite easy via Ealing Broadway, Kensington Olympia, Clapham Jc and East
Croydon. All that is required is a short length of electrification between
Acton Main Line and Acton Wells Jc. However as discussed here several
times before, the amount of Heathrow-Gatwick traffic is very small and
would almost certainly not justify a regular direct train service.

Judging from the traffic generated by Virgins trains when they were allowed
to run, traffic for that line is there, although most of it takes the
Guildford route now. A cross-platform link with a Heathrow service at Ealing
Broadway, or Hayes and Harlington, would achieve the same objective.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

There is already a rail connection, it just needs electrifying.

But I really don't think the Heathrow-Gatwick passenger numbers justify doing it



"maf" wrote in message ...
How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ?

Mike

In article ,
Terry Harper wrote:
"David Randles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
maf wrote:
How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail
connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ?

Quite easy via Ealing Broadway, Kensington Olympia, Clapham Jc and
East Croydon. All that is required is a short length of
electrification between Acton Main Line and Acton Wells Jc. However as
discussed here several times before, the amount of Heathrow-Gatwick
traffic is very small and would almost certainly not justify a regular
direct train service.

Judging from the traffic generated by Virgins trains when they were
allowed to run, traffic for that line is there, although most of it
takes the Guildford route now. A cross-platform link with a Heathrow
service at Ealing Broadway, or Hayes and Harlington, would achieve the
same objective.

Indeed, in the very early days of planning for the Virgin XC Operation
Princess, the intention was to run an hourly service from Birmingham (and
points north) to Brighton via Reading, calling at Hayes (for a shuttle to
Heathrow), Kensington Olympia and Gatwick. This would have been a more
cost-effective way of achieving the same objective, while at the same time
serving both Heathrow and Gatwick from the Midlands. It fell by the
wayside because of "pathing problems" I believe.

David

It is already being planned as part of the airport expansion for
Heathrow Terminal 5. There will be an electrified link between West
Drayton and Staines down most of the route of the old GWR branch line
through Poyle. At Staines there will two chords from the re-instated
branch line to join the main line to get to Virgia Water and the West
and the other to get to Feltham, London and ultimately Gatwick.
Likewise there will be an extra chord at West Drayton to allow trains
to divert west to Reading. There is already a link to the east for
Paddington. Midway near Poyle there will be a spur into Terminal 5 -
this will meet up with an extended Heathrow Express branch.

In addition the current Heathrow Express branch will have an extra
chord installed at its northern end so that trains can also divert
west along the main GWR line to Reading etc. Currently there is only a
chord onto the main line to get to Paddington.

Under T5 - the service tunnels of which were built many years ago
during the building of the T4 loop of the Picadilly Line - even before
any planning application for T5 had even started but no-one noticed -
a huge empty box was excavated that will now become the rail
interchange to/from T5. This will include not only a new spur from the
Picadilly Line loop, but also a junction for the Heathrow Express and
the new spur from the West Drayton/Staines branch.

This has all been planned for years.

Crossrail will also use these lines - providing an excellent
connection to/from Heathrow and Stansted and to/from Heathrow and
Luton.

The Local Heathrow Express, which local residents were lead to believe
would also provide local services after all of the noise, dirt and
disruption which was caused when the HEX line was being built, never
actually eventuated. It MAY be introduced in the near future, but most
likely at prices well beyond most airport workers wages.

Meanwhile you can all look forwards to IMMENSE disruption on the GWR
line as Crossrail is being built, on the SWT lines near Staines as the
T5 branch is reinstated, and on the GWR line at West Drayton as all
the various chords, spurs and connections are upgraded or installed.

The GOOD thing about all this rail development at Heathrow is that
given all the new and fast connections between airports and the rest
of the country we wont need a new third runway to be built there -
thereby saving all the houses (10,000) and listed buildings etc., that
will need to be demolished if it does get built.

CJB.

"maf" wrote in message ...
How difficult would it be to achieve a Heathrow-Croydon-Gatwick rail
connection ? It would reduce M25 load, wouldn't it ?

Mike
--

"Chris Brady" wrote in message
m...

Under T5 - the service tunnels of which were built many years
ago during the building of the T4 loop of the Picadilly Line
- even before any planning application for T5 had even started
but no-one noticed - ...

If the service tunnels for T5 were built during the building of the T4
Piccadilly loop, they must now be in the wrong place for T5. The Piccadilly
loop including a straight stretch for a T5 station, but it can't be used for
this because AIUI the location of T5 has been moved westwards.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Chris Brady writes
The Local Heathrow Express, which local residents were lead to believe
would also provide local services after all of the noise, dirt and
disruption which was caused when the HEX line was being built, never
actually eventuated. It MAY be introduced in the near future, but most
likely at prices well beyond most airport workers wages.

BAA have now ordered the trains needed for the new service.

"Siemens has won a contract to supply four new Desiro electric trains as
part of a GBP30 million investment by BAA, the world's leading airport
company, to provide a new stopping service between London Paddington
Station and Heathrow Airport. The new service will call at Ealing
Broadway, West Ealing, Hanwell, Southall and Hayes.
[...]
"The new trains are due to enter passenger service from December 2004."

http://www.siemens.co.uk/default.asp?content_id=2967

--
Dave