Doors Open
 

With temperatures at zero and below in London during the last few days, why do
passengers on Underground trains stopping at surface stations having to endure
an icy blast with doors unnecessarily opening?

David Bradley

Doors Open
 

David Bradley wrote:
With temperatures at zero and below in London during the last few days, why do
passengers on Underground trains stopping at surface stations having to endure
an icy blast with doors unnecessarily opening?

Do Tube trains even have door opening buttons anymore? I know the newer
District line stock doesn't, including the refurbished D (?) stock.
Although.. I remember they *used* to leave the doors shut during winter,
so presumably the system still works for those trains with buttons.

--
Alex Watson s/deadspam/froup/ to reply
http://www.zen24203.zen.co.uk/

Doors Open
 

Alex Watson wrote:
Do Tube trains even have door opening buttons anymore? I know the newer
District line stock doesn't, including the refurbished D (?) stock.
Although.. I remember they *used* to leave the doors shut during winter,
so presumably the system still works for those trains with buttons.

You certainly don't need to press the button anymore on any LUL trains
in my experience. I'm sure you used to press the open button on the
Central Line trains, but can't remember when I last did it. Can you
still close them, or is control completely removed for the passenger?

Doors Open
 

Alex Watson wrote:
Do Tube trains even have door opening buttons anymore? I know the newer
District line stock doesn't, including the refurbished D (?) stock.
Although.. I remember they *used* to leave the doors shut during winter,
so presumably the system still works for those trains with buttons.

You certainly don't need to press the button anymore on any LUL trains
in my experience. I'm sure you used to press the open button on the
Central Line trains, but can't remember when I last did it. Can you
still close them, or is control completely removed for the passenger?

Doors Open
 

In article , (David Bradley) wrote:

With temperatures at zero and below in London during the last few
days, why do passengers on Underground trains stopping at surface
stations having to endure an icy blast with doors unnecessarily
opening?

Because they never go selective door opening and closing working properly.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Doors Open
 

Jonathan Morris wrote:
Alex Watson wrote:
Do Tube trains even have door opening buttons anymore? I know the newer
District line stock doesn't, including the refurbished D (?) stock.
Although.. I remember they *used* to leave the doors shut during winter,
so presumably the system still works for those trains with buttons.

You certainly don't need to press the button anymore on any LUL trains
in my experience. I'm sure you used to press the open button on the
Central Line trains, but can't remember when I last did it. Can you
still close them, or is control completely removed for the passenger?


I don't think there have ever been any close door buttons on the
Underground. The first time since the 1930s or 1940s that buttons were
introduced was on the D stock on the District, and pretty soon they got
into a pattern of just opening all the doors in summer, but leaving the
passengers to open them (not close them) in the winter. They also had
a system where, when standing at the terminus, one door per carriage
would be open.

I can't remember having to use the door open buttons anywhere on the
Underground since the Jubilee Line Extension opened. Presumably this
was something to do with the doors being linked to the platform edge
doors on that line. Why they then stopped being used on other lines I
don't know.

On the DLR passengers always have to open the doors, but can't close
them.

Doors Open
 

I don't think there have ever been any close door buttons on the
Underground.

Doesn't the Central line have them?

Doors Open
 

TKD wrote:
I don't think there have ever been any close door buttons on the
Underground.

Doesn't the Central line have them?


I didn't think so, but I spose I'll have to check now.

Doors Open
 

"Alex Watson" wrote in message
...

Do Tube trains even have door opening buttons anymore? I know the newer
District line stock doesn't, including the refurbished D (?) stock.
Although.. I remember they *used* to leave the doors shut during winter,
so presumably the system still works for those trains with buttons.

--
Alex Watson s/deadspam/froup/ to reply

Drivers operate the doors to avoid delays.

Doors Open
 

"TKD" wrote in message
...
I don't think there have ever been any close door buttons on the
Underground.

Doesn't the Central line have them?

The Central Line does have door open buttons, actually located on the door
itself.
However, I've never had to use them.

Doors Open
 

In article ,
says...

"TKD" wrote in message
...
I don't think there have ever been any close door buttons on the
Underground.

Doesn't the Central line have them?

The Central Line does have door open buttons, actually located on the door
itself.
However, I've never had to use them.



They haven't been available to use for some years now hence in cold
weather we all freeze, particularly at Leytonstone.

Doors Open
 

Simon Lee wrote:
"TKD" wrote in message
...
I don't think there have ever been any close door buttons on the
Underground.

Doesn't the Central line have them?

The Central Line does have door open buttons, actually located on the door
itself.
However, I've never had to use them.


The thing we are querying here is whether they have close buttons. I
didn't think any Underground trains had close buttons, even if they had
open buttons. But it was suggested that the Central Line did, and now
I am not sure.

Doors Open
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

Simon Lee wrote:
"TKD" wrote in message
...
I don't think there have ever been any close door buttons on the
Underground.

Doesn't the Central line have them?

The Central Line does have door open buttons, actually located on the
door
itself.
However, I've never had to use them.


The thing we are querying here is whether they have close buttons. I
didn't think any Underground trains had close buttons, even if they had
open buttons. But it was suggested that the Central Line did, and now
I am not sure.

The Central Line 1992 stock did have close buttons, and probably still does.
Though I'm not sure they did anything having only used the Central Line in
the central, tunnelled, section where they didn't need to be used.

Dave.

Doors Open
 

Dave Liney wrote:

The Central Line 1992 stock did have close buttons, and probably still
does. Though I'm not sure they did anything having only used the Central
Line in the central, tunnelled, section where they didn't need to be used.

I remember posters in about the mid 1990s trumpetting this feature, claiming
that it gave passengers the chance to shut out rainy weather at surface
stops. They seem to have since abandoned caring about this.

Doors Open
 

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Dave Liney wrote:

The Central Line 1992 stock did have close buttons, and probably
still does. Though I'm not sure they did anything having only used
the Central Line in the central, tunnelled, section where they
didn't need to be used.

I remember posters in about the mid 1990s trumpetting this feature,
claiming that it gave passengers the chance to shut out rainy
weather at surface stops. They seem to have since abandoned caring
about this.

I remember reading here some time ago about incidents where a Central
Line passenger had pressed the door close button, not realising that he
was being followed by another passenger who was struck by the closing
door. Health & Safety considerations then led to the Close facility
being withdrawn. I'm not sure why passenger-operated door opening has
also been withdrawn on the Tube when it's still in operation on DLR.

On National Rail, some of the latest stock like Class 450 on SWT have
passenger-openable doors which individually close (following the usual
warning bleeps) after a certain time has elapsed, about 30 seconds I
think. This is very useful at a terminus where otherwise the doors
could be open for a long time.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Doors Open
 

In message , Richard J.
writes

I remember reading here some time ago about incidents where a Central
Line passenger had pressed the door close button, not realising that he
was being followed by another passenger who was struck by the closing
door. Health & Safety considerations then led to the Close facility
being withdrawn. I'm not sure why passenger-operated door opening has
also been withdrawn on the Tube when it's still in operation on DLR.

The number of times I've stood behind people who just look at the doors
and seem to expect them to open as if by magic on the DLR, I can!

On National Rail, some of the latest stock like Class 450 on SWT have
passenger-openable doors which individually close (following the usual
warning bleeps) after a certain time has elapsed, about 30 seconds I
think. This is very useful at a terminus where otherwise the doors
could be open for a long time.

If the driver can be bothered he/she does have selective door closing
available, at least on 73TS and I'm sure other stocks have it too.
We're encouraged to use this once it gets cold although it's never
policed to my knowledge.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Doors Open
 

Richard J. wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Dave Liney wrote:

The Central Line 1992 stock did have close buttons, and probably
still does. Though I'm not sure they did anything having only used
the Central Line in the central, tunnelled, section where they
didn't need to be used.

I remember posters in about the mid 1990s trumpetting this feature,
claiming that it gave passengers the chance to shut out rainy
weather at surface stops. They seem to have since abandoned caring
about this.

I remember reading here some time ago about incidents where a Central
Line passenger had pressed the door close button, not realising that he
was being followed by another passenger who was struck by the closing
door. Health & Safety considerations then led to the Close facility
being withdrawn. I'm not sure why passenger-operated door opening has
also been withdrawn on the Tube when it's still in operation on DLR.

On National Rail, some of the latest stock like Class 450 on SWT have
passenger-openable doors which individually close (following the usual
warning bleeps) after a certain time has elapsed, about 30 seconds I
think. This is very useful at a terminus where otherwise the doors
could be open for a long time.


I'm not sure about that. At a terminus, boarding a train at leisure
which is not due to depart for five minutes, surrounded by all kinds of
noise and bleeping from adjacent trains, I have repeatedly had the
doors close on me with no effective warning just as I am getting on.

I don't think that's healthy and safe. Also, the amount of delay seems
to be randomised, because doors which have all been opened at roughly
the same time as the train first arrived close at very different times.

Back to the first point, the safety issue explains why close buttons
are not used (yet they are still used on NR), but doesn't explain why
the majority of Underground stock, which has open but not close
buttons, doesn't use them. Unless it's to save confusion, but they've
never cared about that before.

Doors Open
 

wrote:
On National Rail, some of the latest stock like Class 450 on SWT have
passenger-openable doors which individually close (following the usual
warning bleeps) after a certain time has elapsed, about 30 seconds I
think. This is very useful at a terminus where otherwise the doors
could be open for a long time.


I'm not sure about that. At a terminus, boarding a train at leisure
which is not due to depart for five minutes, surrounded by all kinds of
noise and bleeping from adjacent trains, I have repeatedly had the
doors close on me with no effective warning just as I am getting on.

I don't think that's healthy and safe. Also, the amount of delay seems
to be randomised, because doors which have all been opened at roughly
the same time as the train first arrived close at very different times.

The delay is not randomised. The doors appear to close x seconds after
the last person moved through them either way. This is why they have
infrared sensors just inside (about knee height). The sensor also
seems to be used (in conjunction with the door's pressure sensors) to
reopen the door if someone steps through or it hits someone.

If you are being hit by the doors quite often and, for whatever reason,
can't hear the beeps the I suggest you look at the close button just
inside the train. If the red LEDs are flashing then the door is
closing - press the open button, hit the side of the door or wave your
leg/arm between the sensor and the reflector.

This seems to have been designed with safety in mind

--
Chris

Doors Open
 

On National Rail, some of the latest stock like Class 450 on SWT have
passenger-openable doors which individually close (following the usual
warning bleeps) after a certain time has elapsed, about 30 seconds I
think. This is very useful at a terminus where otherwise the doors
could be open for a long time.

I'm not sure about that. At a terminus, boarding a train at leisure
which is not due to depart for five minutes, surrounded by all kinds of
noise and bleeping from adjacent trains, I have repeatedly had the
doors close on me with no effective warning just as I am getting on.

Maybe once they were going to do that, they should have given them
two-speed motors. After 30 seconds the door could close in leisurely
fashion, taking maybe 8-10 seconds to slide across; but on the guard's
command all doors not yet fully closed would close in the normal
manner. A two-speed flashing light would provide suitable warning.
--
Mark Brader "Remember, this is Mark we're dealing with.
Toronto Rationality and fact won't work very well."
-- Jeff Scott Franzman

Doors Open
 

On 6 Jan 2006 16:05:41 -0800, wrote:


Richard J. wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Dave Liney wrote:

snip

Back to the first point, the safety issue explains why close buttons
are not used (yet they are still used on NR), but doesn't explain why
the majority of Underground stock, which has open but not close
buttons, doesn't use them. Unless it's to save confusion, but they've
never cared about that before.

As the OP on this issue the statment above makes the point that open buttons
are to be found on the majority of Underground stock. Travelling around quite
a bit on the surface sections of the Underground, I have never seen the option
given for passengers to open doors. Forget the issue of closing the doors, if
that has to be done under official manual control, for perhaps safety reasons,
that is unfortunate. In sub zero temperatures having the doors open at each
surface station when there is no passenger movement means unnecessary
discomfort for travellers and additional energy to maintain heating levels.
So the why the hell isn't a built in feature to the stock being used?

David Bradley

Doors Open
 

In message , Mark Brader
writes
On National Rail, some of the latest stock like Class 450 on SWT have
passenger-openable doors which individually close (following the usual
warning bleeps) after a certain time has elapsed, about 30 seconds I
think. This is very useful at a terminus where otherwise the doors
could be open for a long time.

I'm not sure about that. At a terminus, boarding a train at leisure
which is not due to depart for five minutes, surrounded by all kinds of
noise and bleeping from adjacent trains, I have repeatedly had the
doors close on me with no effective warning just as I am getting on.

Maybe once they were going to do that, they should have given them
two-speed motors. After 30 seconds the door could close in leisurely
fashion, taking maybe 8-10 seconds to slide across; but on the guard's
command all doors not yet fully closed would close in the normal
manner. A two-speed flashing light would provide suitable warning.

I too believe that the 450, 444 and similar trains should have a way of
clearly indicating whether the doors are closing under the guard's
command or auto-closing. Otherwise, even when the doors are
auto-closing, people have a tendency to throw themselves through the
doors when they hear the beeps, fearing the train is going to depart.
I believe the 166s provide the distinction by not beeping when
auto-closing (probably not allowed these days).
--
Daniel (a.k.a Spyke)
Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. Replace the bit before the
@ with 'daniel' to get through. The opinions expressed in this post do not
necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post.

Doors Open
 

Spyke wrote:

I too believe that the 450, 444 and similar trains should have a way of
clearly indicating whether the doors are closing under the guard's
command or auto-closing. Otherwise, even when the doors are
auto-closing, people have a tendency to throw themselves through the
doors when they hear the beeps, fearing the train is going to depart.
I believe the 166s provide the distinction by not beeping when
auto-closing (probably not allowed these days).

Chiltern appeared to have that one sorted for a while in that guards
would blow a whistle before pressing "close" (assuming there were no
platform staff to do this). This only, for obvious reasons, happened
on the section with guards! This seems to have disappeared again,
however.

Works in Germany, and costs less than a quid per guard...

Neil