So this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4608578.stm is
announced on the same day that it is announced that Tim O'toole gets a
CBE. Exactly what was the CBE for, not doing the job he is very well
paid to do by any chance.

Kevin

wrote:
So this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4608578.stm is
announced on the same day that it is announced that Tim O'toole
gets a CBE.

Tim O'Toole's *honorary* CBE (he can't get a full CBE as he is not a
British citizen) was announced with the New Year Honours on 31 December.

Exactly what was the CBE for, not doing the job he is
very well paid to do by any chance.

Officially "for services to transport and the community". According to
the BBC report on 31 December, he "was made an honorary CBE for leading
the Tube management's response to the attacks" on 7th July. Many people
get honours not only for doing the job they are paid to do, but also for
doing it in a way that makes a real difference to the wider community.
From all that I have read and heard, Tim O'Toole's leadership of his
staff in LU was inspirational in recognising those who bore the brunt of
the front-line trauma, and in organising and motivating everyone to get
the network back in operation again. A well-deserved honour in my view,
though it's part of a flawed honours system.

I'm not sure what your point is in relation to ASLEF's threat of
industrial action, but if O'Toole is standing up to the unions'
knee-jerk reactions to anything they don't like, good luck to him. I'd
be interested to understand what exactly is behind the ASLEF ballot, as
their press release, on which the BBC report is based, is full of
generalisations ("failure to resolve issues around 'harassment,
discipline, attendance, negotiations and health and safety'").

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:44:21 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

wrote:
So this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4608578.stm is
announced on the same day that it is announced that Tim O'toole
gets a CBE.

Tim O'Toole's *honorary* CBE (he can't get a full CBE as he is not a
British citizen) was announced with the New Year Honours on 31 December.

Exactly what was the CBE for, not doing the job he is
very well paid to do by any chance.

Officially "for services to transport and the community". According to
the BBC report on 31 December, he "was made an honorary CBE for leading
the Tube management's response to the attacks" on 7th July. Many people
get honours not only for doing the job they are paid to do, but also for
doing it in a way that makes a real difference to the wider community.
From all that I have read and heard, Tim O'Toole's leadership of his
staff in LU was inspirational in recognising those who bore the brunt of
the front-line trauma, and in organising and motivating everyone to get
the network back in operation again. A well-deserved honour in my view,
though it's part of a flawed honours system.

Tim is the only MD I have worked for who I feel is true leader - i.e.
someone who knows where he wants to go and you feel you want to go with
him. You only have to listen to him speak.

I remember seeing him briefly on the telly in a newsagent as I bought
some water for the (long) walk home on 7 July - he was speaking sense
and I felt very proud on what was a traumatic day.

I'm not sure what your point is in relation to ASLEF's threat of
industrial action, but if O'Toole is standing up to the unions'
knee-jerk reactions to anything they don't like, good luck to him. I'd
be interested to understand what exactly is behind the ASLEF ballot, as
their press release, on which the BBC report is based, is full of
generalisations ("failure to resolve issues around 'harassment,
discipline, attendance, negotiations and health and safety'").

I guess it depends on your view as to whether management manage the
business that is LU or the trade unions do. I have no issue with trade
unions where sense is being spoken and where a partnership exists. It
hasn't felt like that for a very long time but I accept I see things
from only one angle.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Tim is the only MD I have worked for who I feel is true leader - i.e.
someone who knows where he wants to go and you feel you want to go with
him. You only have to listen to him speak.

I remember seeing him briefly on the telly in a newsagent as I bought
some water for the (long) walk home on 7 July - he was speaking sense
and I felt very proud on what was a traumatic day.

Excellent. So LU has an MD who is actually competent at his job and worth
his salary. But does that mean he should get a fairly serious gong for
doing his job? Yes, very unusual and testing circumstances - but I would
imagine they were a damn sight more testing for a lot of the staff who
didn't get gongs.

Adrian wrote:
Paul Corfield ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Tim is the only MD I have worked for who I feel is true leader - i.e.
someone who knows where he wants to go and you feel you want to go with
him. You only have to listen to him speak.

I remember seeing him briefly on the telly in a newsagent as I bought
some water for the (long) walk home on 7 July - he was speaking sense
and I felt very proud on what was a traumatic day.

Excellent. So LU has an MD who is actually competent at his job and worth
his salary. But does that mean he should get a fairly serious gong for
doing his job? Yes, very unusual and testing circumstances - but I would
imagine they were a damn sight more testing for a lot of the staff who
didn't get gongs.

There is a common misconception that honours only go to people as a
result of exception events or circumstances. MBEs and other similar
awards are routinely handed out for people after a lifetime of, "doing
their job" - think of various actors who get them at some point in
their career - although in exceptional circumstances they might get
them "early" as a result of handling something more unexpected.

On 13 Jan 2006 17:21:29 GMT, Adrian wrote:

Paul Corfield ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Tim is the only MD I have worked for who I feel is true leader - i.e.
someone who knows where he wants to go and you feel you want to go with
him. You only have to listen to him speak.

I remember seeing him briefly on the telly in a newsagent as I bought
some water for the (long) walk home on 7 July - he was speaking sense
and I felt very proud on what was a traumatic day.

Excellent. So LU has an MD who is actually competent at his job and worth
his salary. But does that mean he should get a fairly serious gong for
doing his job? Yes, very unusual and testing circumstances - but I would
imagine they were a damn sight more testing for a lot of the staff who
didn't get gongs.

So the answer is what exactly? Give them to no one. give them to
everyone who was involved in some way no matter how small, give them to
everyone who went down the tunnels or tended the injured? Care to give
me (and the group) an answer?

Tim is not alone in getting an award re 7/7. Plenty of LU / LT / TfL
staff at all levels have received awards over the years for all sorts of
acts and services. Are all those undeserved?

If you believe the honours system should not exist then that is a
separate argument.

I find the apparent - I can't be bothered to read RMT's website - use of
the honours awards as some sort of "class war" invective behind a
seeming half arsed dispute distasteful in the extreme. No one who
worked for LU that day was unaffected in the same way that no one was
unaffected by the Kings Cross fire. To seek to belittle or deride the
granting of honours to some people who got stuck in is just petty.
People should remember that we had almost all the network back at full
operation the day after the bombings which was no small feat and I
believe resulting directly from Tim's leadership.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , Richard J.
writes
Officially "for services to transport and the community". According to
the BBC report on 31 December, he "was made an honorary CBE for leading
the Tube management's response to the attacks" on 7th July. Many
people get honours not only for doing the job they are paid to do, but
also for doing it in a way that makes a real difference to the wider
community. From all that I have read and heard, Tim O'Toole's
leadership of his staff in LU was inspirational in recognising those
who bore the brunt of the front-line trauma, and in organising and
motivating everyone to get the network back in operation again.

Tim O'Toole travelled on the first through Piccadilly line train to
Heathrow after it reopened after 7/7. He would have had to get up very
early to be on that train too. I was (coincidentally) on the train as I
had to meet my partner from the airport and was very surprised to see
him sat up front with the driver.

I was very impressed by the fact he took the trouble, as these little
things mean a lot - and I told him as much!
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Paul Corfield ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Excellent. So LU has an MD who is actually competent at his job and
worth his salary. But does that mean he should get a fairly serious
gong for doing his job? Yes, very unusual and testing circumstances -
but I would imagine they were a damn sight more testing for a lot of
the staff who didn't get gongs.

So the answer is what exactly?

I don't know.

Give them to no one

No. Many people deserved recognition, and they're the way that our country
recognises exceptional contribution.

give them to everyone who was involved in some way no matter how small,

Impossible.

give them to everyone who went down the tunnels or tended the injured?

There's far more than just those who deserve recognition - and many of
those who did were indeed "just doing their job". Sorry, paramedics, but
it's what you're paid to do.

Tim is not alone in getting an award re 7/7. Plenty of LU / LT / TfL
staff at all levels have received awards over the years for all sorts
of acts and services. Are all those undeserved?

Of course not.

If you believe the honours system should not exist then that is a
separate argument.

As it happens, I don't. It's not perfect, but it's an order of magnitude
form being as bad as many make out.

I find the apparent - I can't be bothered to read RMT's website - use
of the honours awards as some sort of "class war" invective behind a
seeming half arsed dispute distasteful in the extreme.

As do I - and I'm *FAR* from a "class warrior"...

To seek to belittle or deride the granting of honours to some people who
got stuck in is just petty.

Not what I'm doing at all.

People should remember that we had almost all the network back at full
operation the day after the bombings which was no small feat and I
believe resulting directly from Tim's leadership.

Good. It's his job. If he hadn't, his future in the job should have been
SERIOUSLY questioned..

Richard J. wrote:
wrote:
So this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4608578.stm is
announced on the same day that it is announced that Tim O'toole
gets a CBE.

Tim O'Toole's *honorary* CBE (he can't get a full CBE as he is not a
British citizen) was announced with the New Year Honours on 31 December.

Exactly what was the CBE for, not doing the job he is
very well paid to do by any chance.

Officially "for services to transport and the community". According to
the BBC report on 31 December, he "was made an honorary CBE for leading
the Tube management's response to the attacks" on 7th July. Many people
get honours not only for doing the job they are paid to do, but also for
doing it in a way that makes a real difference to the wider community.
From all that I have read and heard, Tim O'Toole's leadership of his
staff in LU was inspirational in recognising those who bore the brunt of
the front-line trauma, and in organising and motivating everyone to get
the network back in operation again. A well-deserved honour in my view,
though it's part of a flawed honours system.

I'm not sure what your point is in relation to ASLEF's threat of
industrial action, but if O'Toole is standing up to the unions'
knee-jerk reactions to anything they don't like, good luck to him. I'd
be interested to understand what exactly is behind the ASLEF ballot, as
their press release, on which the BBC report is based, is full of
generalisations ("failure to resolve issues around 'harassment,
discipline, attendance, negotiations and health and safety'").

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Only that on the day his CBE is announced was the same day that the
unions announced increased action. It would seem that we are in a for a
long year of disputes.
As far as I can see he did his job no more no less and many in similar
situations get no recognition.
Have any of the several hundred victims who received injuries got any
compensation yet?

Kevin

wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
wrote:
So this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4608578.stm is
announced on the same day that it is announced that Tim O'toole
gets a CBE.

Tim O'Toole's *honorary* CBE (he can't get a full CBE as he is not
a British citizen) was announced with the New Year Honours on 31
December.

Exactly what was the CBE for, not doing the job he is
very well paid to do by any chance.

Officially "for services to transport and the community".
According to the BBC report on 31 December, he "was made an
honorary CBE for leading the Tube management's response to the
attacks" on 7th July. Many people get honours not only for doing
the job they are paid to do, but also for doing it in a way that
makes a real difference to the wider community. From all that I
have read and heard, Tim O'Toole's leadership of his staff in LU
was inspirational in recognising those who bore the brunt of the
front-line trauma, and in organising and motivating everyone to
get the network back in operation again. A well-deserved honour
in my view, though it's part of a flawed honours system.

I'm not sure what your point is in relation to ASLEF's threat of
industrial action, but if O'Toole is standing up to the unions'
knee-jerk reactions to anything they don't like, good luck to him.
I'd be interested to understand what exactly is behind the ASLEF
ballot, as their press release, on which the BBC report is based,
is full of generalisations ("failure to resolve issues around
'harassment, discipline, attendance, negotiations and health and
safety'").

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Only that on the day his CBE is announced was the same day that the
unions announced increased action.

As I've already pointed out, his honorary CBE was announced on 31
December. Try reading my and others' responses before repeating
yourself.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)